Backstage With the Band

[stratotastic]

Sorry if any/all this has been covered - skimmed the thread.

My impressions:

You really need to work on getting more comfortable on stage. You guys sound okay, but I didn't see anything there that a crowd would find inviting. For instance, what is the male singer looking at when he sings? He just kinda stares into space burning a hole in one spot 10 ft in front of him. And everyone looks so serious (nervous?). Smile more, or at least look at the crowd and acknowledge them in some way. And the guy RIGHT AT CENTER STAGE tuning up, taking a giant exaggerated sip of his beer, and otherwise fucking around while the chick (who is actually singing) is pushed off to the side? Really?? I hope you don't need someone to tell you that this is really bad, and why.

Also you should consider getting some sort of cohesive look. Doesn't have to be matching zoot suits, but at least something better than like you just all left the apartment after beer and chips in front of the game. Add some visual appeal.

Overall your general feel seems like you're really not putting forth too much effort. If you don't step up your performance, a bunch of slick props and/or upgraded sound equipment are not going to do a single thing for you. Taking charge of that room is probably the best value add you can do.

But the good thing is that you guys look really young and have lots of time to work this stuff out.

Best of luck!

[tlbonehead]

Originally Posted by nchangin

Screw the subs, yes they are nice but yall need to work on vocals and tightness.

Subs will get your bass drum and geetair out there but the video's you guys have are all small joints and 9 times out of 10 if you have those subs cranked up they gonig to tell you to turn down anyway. Sorry i had to be honest.

and Video one, the dude guitar tuning while that chick was singing? Big turn off, that's is my biggest pet peave with geetair players when they constantly tune **** at the wrong time.

that makes no sense. Subs should fill out the bottom octave, not be louder than everything else.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by tlbonehead

that makes no sense. Subs should fill out the bottom octave, not be louder than everything else.

Well it was posted by a drummer. My country band always uses subs whether we are playing for 20 people or 1000.

[SeniorBlues]

Originally Posted by modulusman

Well it was posted by a drummer. My country band always uses subs whether we are playing for 20 people or 1000.

Seriously? Are those 20 people in a decent sized venue or do you also use them in small rooms, too? Where's the cutoff, expressed in square feet? Just asking.

[mstreck]

Originally Posted by SeniorBlues

Seriously? Are those 20 people in a decent sized venue or do you also use them in small rooms, too? Where's the cutoff, expressed in square feet? Just asking.

We use them everywhere. It may seem unnecessary in smaller rooms, but makes a huge difference.

[Lee Knight]

Subs have been known to tighten up a band, inspire confidence in harmony singing and instill a sense of natural stage presence. I'd get subs.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by SeniorBlues

Seriously? Are those 20 people in a decent sized venue or do you also use them in small rooms, too? Where's the cutoff, expressed in square feet? Just asking.

Just because you're using subs doesn't mean you have to run them loud. If there was a cutoff, I suppose it might be the point where you're playing so quiet that there's no need to put any kick drum or bass guitar through the PA. But you don't turn off the bottom speakers on your stereo just because you've got it turned down, do you?

Also, in my case, the subs serve as the stands that hold up the rest of the PA. Without them, I'd have to find some other stands to use.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by SeniorBlues

Seriously? Are those 20 people in a decent sized venue or do you also use them in small rooms, too? Where's the cutoff, expressed in square feet? Just asking.

We play a room that is about 30x40 about a dozen times each summer using subs. Average crowd about 50 people. Could we do it without subs, sure, would it sound as good, no. The band uses small amps, I use my 110 combo for bass guitar. We mic instruments and the kick drum. The two best things my band ever did to improve our sound was to use subs and IEMs.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by modulusman

The two best things my band ever did to improve our sound was to use subs and IEMs.

I haven't played without subs in any band I've ever been in or any gig I've ever done since 1982. Regardless of size of room or style of music. They are simply just part of a good, full, well-rounded PA system. Might as well ask why you does a band need tweeters since nothing comes through them but the very high-end of sound that's often annoying anyway?

IEMs made a MAJOR improvement in our sound since our stage volume is now very, very low and we now let the PA do almost all the work. For example, the bass player now just goes direct into the PA using a pre-amp. No stage volume for him at all. Which means we need those subs even MORE.....

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by SeniorBlues

Seriously? Are those 20 people in a decent sized venue or do you also use them in small rooms, too? Where's the cutoff, expressed in square feet? Just asking.

Subs are simply part of our setup - regardless of room size. This is due in large part because for us - the footprint of our sub/pole/main "stack" is actually smaller (and far less likely to be a trip hazard!!) than going the "mains on tripod stands" approach.

Another reason we always use subs is for ease/consistency of setup. Although switching between a "with subs" setup and a "without subs" setup isn't a huge deal - it is just another thing that must be dealt with in terms of EQ, Crossover settings, etc. By always using subs - the base configuration of our PA never changes - which speeds the setup and tuning of the system.

Considering the above points - my take is that fussing over the little bit of extra weight/extra work that schlepping a pair of small subs adds just isn't worth the headache. The sonic contribution that subs make to the sound is just gravy!

[nchangin]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

. The sonic contribution that subs make to the sound is just gravy!

I agree about subs, they rule, and to use his quote it's gravy, but you need the mashed taters before you can add the gravy. Mashed taters = practice and rehersal. I use 4 subs. My apologies on my post if I came off wrong. I still think this band (based on the videos) should focus on their performance\vocals and "the one band one sound principle" before adding subs at this time. By all means if you have the money and time add the subs it's fine, but I'd be more focused on rehersal at this time in their career after looking at this from the outside.

[MartinC]

no doubt! I need subs too!

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

Subs have been known to tighten up a band, inspire confidence in harmony singing and instill a sense of natural stage presence. I'd get subs.

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by MartinC

no doubt! I need subs too!

I need to double up on my subs. I need to suck WAY less than I do.

Hey guys, I totally agree that adding subs, using subs in any room does not necessarily constitute overkill. I've spec'ed out nice music playback setups for both of my wife's hair salons and they both included subs. If used in balance, it is an integral part of a complete system. Of course. However...

...in smaller rooms with smaller crowds soaking up things, it is still entirely possible to achieve that balance without subs. From the kick off stage and the bass amp. There are plenty of guys playing gigs of that size. So the point is, subs may not be as MANDATORY as some of you believe. For those small gigs. And looking at those videos, the venues appeared pretty small.

Would subs work? Of course. Could they easily be misused and abused and make their sound worse for that venue. Very LIKELY!!!

[guido61]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

I need to double up on my subs. I need to suck WAY less than I do.

You're point has been made. But nobody has ever suggested it's an either-or proposition. The band could spend time rehearsing and getting tighter AND still buy subs and help improve their out-front sound!

...in smaller rooms with smaller crowds soaking up things, it is still entirely possible to achieve that balance without subs. From the kick off stage and the bass amp. There are plenty of guys playing gigs of that size.So the point is, subs may not be as MANDATORY as some of you believe. For those small gigs. And looking at those videos, the venues appeared pretty small.

I think it's largely genre-dependent. For rock and dance music, I personally just don't believe the sound you get just from the kick off stage is sufficient. For more easy-listening type stuff. Sure, it's probably fine in a small room.

Would subs work? Of course. Could they easily be misused and abused and make their sound worse for that venue. Very LIKELY!!!

Every piece of equipment must be used properly, of course.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by nchangin

I agree about subs, they rule, and to use his quote it's gravy, but you need the mashed taters before you can add the gravy. Mashed taters = practice and rehersal. I use 4 subs.

My comments about subs were a response to SeniorBlues comments/questions about room size and "cutoff [for sub use], expressed in square feet". Like many who've posted that equipment is not a substitute for delivering a quality musical performance - I'm certainly not suggesting that subs are going to solve that problem.

My point was simply that when facing a choice of using a "small sub/speaker pole/main" combination versus "mains on tripod stands" - I'll virtually always go the "small sub/speaker pole/main" route for the reasons I outlined (smaller/safer footprint, setup consistency, etc.) ... and that yes, in those scenarios, the sonic contribution that subs make is just gravy.

[SeniorBlues]

We'll be playing in a venue this Sunday that runs their own sound, which I am sure will have subs. . . a first for this band - or at least the current lineup. I hope to get some audio and/or video and more importantly, their impression of the sound quality.

I don't suppose it matters that all the soul music we'll be playing during our short set was written before subs were in common use . . . . .

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by guido61

You're point has been made.

Well... that's never stopped you before!!!

[guido61]

Originally Posted by SeniorBlues

I don't suppose it matters that all the soul music we'll be playing during our short set was written before subs were in common use . . . . .

I wouldn't see why age-of-the-material would make any difference. My band might decide to play "The Charleston" or "Yellow Rose of Texas", but I wouldn't want to do it through a megaphone....

[SeniorBlues]

Originally Posted by guido61

I wouldn't see why age-of-the-material would make any difference. My band might decide to play "The Charleston" or "Yellow Rose of Texas", but I wouldn't want to do it through a megaphone....

I listened to "sandman" the other day - for the first time. OF COURSE you needs subs for that stuff! I asked about room specs and got some good answers, but I think it really is genre specific more than room size.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by SeniorBlues

I listened to "sandman" the other day - for the first time. OF COURSE you needs subs for that stuff! I asked about room specs and got some good answers, but I think it really is genre specific more than room size.

Well so when my country/classic rock band plays some Hank Williams or Johnny Cash songs we should turn the subs off on those songs?