Backstage With the Band

[SeniorBlues]

Originally Posted by mr3lions

It's interesting to read this thread and the "post your video" thread. It's easy to see what's important to specific bands and who practices what they preach in terms of things like; subs, dress, (the dreaded) music stands and cargo shorts.

No specific point to make here just an observation.

Our priorities might be reflected in the videos you see and hear. That assumes we have some sort of control over what does or doesn't happen on stage, at rehearsals, at home, etc.

FWIW, I'm squarely in music-first camp. Give me a choice between signing on with a gigging band with music that doesn't get me excited - song selection or performance - and one that's struggling to get gigs for whatever reason but knocks me out musically, and I'll take the latter every time. . . . . and no I don't expect everyone else to have the same priorities.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Potts

Sorry...again I'm with Lee on this entirely. The rest of you are trying to argue your points to save face or something.

A band at this stage doesn't need a banner, subs, a light show or anything else. They need to take the talent they have and form a tight cohesive unit.

If you cant see Lee's point through his "storefront" example then you must be a little clueless.

Not so clueless as the guy running his business out of that theoretical storefront who truly believes that if you build a better mousetrap the world will beat a path to your door, and believes it at the expense of everything else.

A better mousetrap it may be, but if one doesn't ALSO spend time, effort, energy and cash on making sure their potential customer base is aware that mousetrap exists in the first place, that the mousetrap can be readily experienced (seen, heard, etc.), then that storefront is likely to be two things in its immediate future: empty, and then closed.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Potts

Sorry...again I'm with Lee on this entirely. The rest of you are trying to argue your points to save face or something.

A band at this stage doesn't need a banner, subs, a light show or anything else. They need to take the talent they have and form a tight cohesive unit.

If you cant see Lee's point through his "storefront" example then you must be a little clueless.

Not so clueless as the guy running his business out of that theoretical storefront who truly believes that if you build a better mousetrap the world will beat a path to your door, and believes it at the expense of everything else.

A better mousetrap it may be, but if one doesn't ALSO spend time, effort, energy and cash on making sure their potential customer base is aware that mousetrap exists in the first place, that the mousetrap can be readily experienced (seen, heard, etc.), then that storefront is likely to be two things in its immediate future: empty, and then closed.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by wades_keys

So what? Bad gig, or lack of practice.

More like lack of existence: by the date on that vid, the band didn't exist, in any way, shape, or form, roughly two months prior (7/4/76 being the date the Ramones played the Roundhouse in London, launching almost the entirety of the first wave of British punk bands, among them, the Clash).

The timing and lineup of that vid means (1) a bassist who'd never played the instrument two months before and (2) a guitarist who would be out of the band within weeks. The drummer, oddly enough, was the most seasoned/experienced of the lot, and he wouldn't succumb to heroin until much later...

But I'm not sure what a recording taken in the infancy of a band has to do with the topic at hand...
Yeah, the quality was shite, but within the year, they'd sign to a major, release a watershed album, and then follow up with no less than 10 sides of recordings in the next few years and change, 2 sides' worth of which are regarded by some whose opinions are respected as the greatest rock album of all time.


And for the record, from day one, they practiced like madmen AND paid a hell f a lot of attention to what the show looked like on stage...

[kmart]

Originally Posted by wades_keys

So what? Bad gig, or lack of practice.

More like lack of existence: by the date on that vid, the band didn't exist, in any way, shape, or form, roughly two months prior (7/4/76 being the date the Ramones played the Roundhouse in London, launching almost the entirety of the first wave of British punk bands, among them, the Clash).

The timing and lineup of that vid means (1) a bassist who'd never played the instrument two months before and (2) a guitarist who would be out of the band within weeks. The drummer, oddly enough, was the most seasoned/experienced of the lot, and he wouldn't succumb to heroin until much later...

But I'm not sure what a recording taken in the infancy of a band has to do with the topic at hand...
Yeah, the quality was shite, but within the year, they'd sign to a major, release a watershed album, and then follow up with no less than 10 sides of recordings in the next few years and change, 2 sides' worth of which are regarded by some whose opinions are respected as the greatest rock album of all time.


And for the record, from day one, they practiced like madmen AND paid a hell f a lot of attention to what the show looked like on stage...

[guido61]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

But there is a very real trend of diminishing musicianship. That's a shame....

But I'll be honest, I believe this whole trend of party band building is misguided. Is it for the money? Good luck with that. Is it for the hobby of it?

IS there a very real trend of diminishing musicianship? I dunno. There have always been sucky bands who make a lot of money. And great ones that don't. And vice versa as well. I really think it's a waste of time being butthurt about bands/musicians you don't think are as good as you see yourself as being making more money/getting more gigs than you do. This business has NEVER been a dollar-for-dollar reflection of musical ability. You know that.

Is the "whole trend of party band building" some reflection of that? I don't really think so. It's no different than what successful dance bands have been doing since --forever: play some songs people like, create a fun and energetic atmosphere, and let her rip. What is it for? For the money and for the fun gigs. Same as the cover band thing has always been about. It's no big new phenomenon designed to suck the soul out of live music or anything. Relax.

Or start your own party band with stellar musicianship that's so awesome it doesn't require subs or lights and show us all how it's all done the old-fashioned way.

Carrying subs sounds fun. Why not hire out and concentrate on what's important?

Yeah, I just told the band I'm selling the subs so we can use the extra money for rehearsal... WTF? How does hiring out for subs give a band the ability to "concentrate on what's important" that owning your own pair does not? Jesus, this a dumb conversation...

[guido61]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

But there is a very real trend of diminishing musicianship. That's a shame....

But I'll be honest, I believe this whole trend of party band building is misguided. Is it for the money? Good luck with that. Is it for the hobby of it?

IS there a very real trend of diminishing musicianship? I dunno. There have always been sucky bands who make a lot of money. And great ones that don't. And vice versa as well. I really think it's a waste of time being butthurt about bands/musicians you don't think are as good as you see yourself as being making more money/getting more gigs than you do. This business has NEVER been a dollar-for-dollar reflection of musical ability. You know that.

Is the "whole trend of party band building" some reflection of that? I don't really think so. It's no different than what successful dance bands have been doing since --forever: play some songs people like, create a fun and energetic atmosphere, and let her rip. What is it for? For the money and for the fun gigs. Same as the cover band thing has always been about. It's no big new phenomenon designed to suck the soul out of live music or anything. Relax.

Or start your own party band with stellar musicianship that's so awesome it doesn't require subs or lights and show us all how it's all done the old-fashioned way.

Carrying subs sounds fun. Why not hire out and concentrate on what's important?

Yeah, I just told the band I'm selling the subs so we can use the extra money for rehearsal... WTF? How does hiring out for subs give a band the ability to "concentrate on what's important" that owning your own pair does not? Jesus, this a dumb conversation...

[SeniorBlues]

Originally Posted by kmart

Not so clueless as the guy running his business out of that theoretical storefront who truly believes that if you build a better mousetrap the world will beat a path to your door, and believes it at the expense of everything else.

A better mousetrap it may be, but if one doesn't ALSO spend time, effort, energy and cash on making sure their potential customer base is aware that mousetrap exists in the first place, that the mousetrap can be readily experienced (seen, heard, etc.), then that storefront is likely to be two things in its immediate future: empty, and then closed.

Be sure your mousetrap is truly the product you want it to be before you bring it to market.

There are several groups I can think of that needed time to figure out if they were going to be viable or not. In most cases I'm glad I didn't put much time and money into anything like that. My current band is a challenge from a business / marketing standpoint, but I'm moving forward with my eyes open. We could use an upgrade in both PA and lights, but that's not the first order of business, and to focus on it now would be a distraction.

[SeniorBlues]

Originally Posted by kmart

Not so clueless as the guy running his business out of that theoretical storefront who truly believes that if you build a better mousetrap the world will beat a path to your door, and believes it at the expense of everything else.

A better mousetrap it may be, but if one doesn't ALSO spend time, effort, energy and cash on making sure their potential customer base is aware that mousetrap exists in the first place, that the mousetrap can be readily experienced (seen, heard, etc.), then that storefront is likely to be two things in its immediate future: empty, and then closed.

Be sure your mousetrap is truly the product you want it to be before you bring it to market.

There are several groups I can think of that needed time to figure out if they were going to be viable or not. In most cases I'm glad I didn't put much time and money into anything like that. My current band is a challenge from a business / marketing standpoint, but I'm moving forward with my eyes open. We could use an upgrade in both PA and lights, but that's not the first order of business, and to focus on it now would be a distraction.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by kmart

But I'm not sure what a recording taken in the infancy of a band has to do with the topic at hand..

To show that the bands that end up being the most successful are the ones who just get out there and fucking do it. They get the gigs and they get better because the gigs demand it. They don't spend their lives in the basement fretting about whether every scale and arpeggio is perfectly understood and anunciated or whether the band is as tight as the band down the street.

They just do it. They get out there and entertain and energize the audience with every tool at their disposal. Musicianship included, but not even necessarily prioritized. It's rock and roll.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by kmart

But I'm not sure what a recording taken in the infancy of a band has to do with the topic at hand..

To show that the bands that end up being the most successful are the ones who just get out there and fucking do it. They get the gigs and they get better because the gigs demand it. They don't spend their lives in the basement fretting about whether every scale and arpeggio is perfectly understood and anunciated or whether the band is as tight as the band down the street.

They just do it. They get out there and entertain and energize the audience with every tool at their disposal. Musicianship included, but not even necessarily prioritized. It's rock and roll.

[mr3lions]

Originally Posted by kmart

More like lack of existence: by the date on that vid, the band didn't exist, in any way, shape, or form, roughly two months prior (7/4/76 being the date the Ramones played the Roundhouse in London, launching almost the entirety of the first wave of British punk bands, among them, the Clash).

The timing and lineup of that vid means (1) a bassist who'd never played the instrument two months before and (2) a guitarist who would be out of the band within weeks. The drummer, oddly enough, was the most seasoned/experienced of the lot, and he wouldn't succumb to heroin until much later...

But I'm not sure what a recording taken in the infancy of a band has to do with the topic at hand...
Yeah, the quality was shite, but within the year, they'd sign to a major, release a watershed album, and then follow up with no less than 10 sides of recordings in the next few years and change, 2 sides' worth of which are regarded by some whose opinions are respected as the greatest rock album of all time.


And for the record, from day one, they practiced like madmen AND paid a hell f a lot of attention to what the show looked like on stage...

Amen

[mr3lions]

Originally Posted by kmart

More like lack of existence: by the date on that vid, the band didn't exist, in any way, shape, or form, roughly two months prior (7/4/76 being the date the Ramones played the Roundhouse in London, launching almost the entirety of the first wave of British punk bands, among them, the Clash).

The timing and lineup of that vid means (1) a bassist who'd never played the instrument two months before and (2) a guitarist who would be out of the band within weeks. The drummer, oddly enough, was the most seasoned/experienced of the lot, and he wouldn't succumb to heroin until much later...

But I'm not sure what a recording taken in the infancy of a band has to do with the topic at hand...
Yeah, the quality was shite, but within the year, they'd sign to a major, release a watershed album, and then follow up with no less than 10 sides of recordings in the next few years and change, 2 sides' worth of which are regarded by some whose opinions are respected as the greatest rock album of all time.


And for the record, from day one, they practiced like madmen AND paid a hell f a lot of attention to what the show looked like on stage...

Amen

[wades_keys]

Okay look man. These cats have been together 2 years, gigging? And they want to up the game. And what I'm saying is if they buckle down in rehearsal they can do that.

Here's my band of two weeks in a rehearsal situation. You tell me what sounds more musical, has a more focused look, better stage presence? Perfect!? No. But: veterans with 3 smart rehearsals vs two years of bar band slog rehearsals? You tell me bro. Money where my mouth is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCvvL...e_gdata_player

[wades_keys]

Okay look man. These cats have been together 2 years, gigging? And they want to up the game. And what I'm saying is if they buckle down in rehearsal they can do that.

Here's my band of two weeks in a rehearsal situation. You tell me what sounds more musical, has a more focused look, better stage presence? Perfect!? No. But: veterans with 3 smart rehearsals vs two years of bar band slog rehearsals? You tell me bro. Money where my mouth is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCvvL...e_gdata_player

[SLScott86]

Is it still harmonies vs. Subs? My advice is buy subs and then buy some harmonies with the spare change. Then nitpick the crap out of those things. Harmony is THE #1 thing that separates a good band from an okay band.

[SLScott86]

Is it still harmonies vs. Subs? My advice is buy subs and then buy some harmonies with the spare change. Then nitpick the crap out of those things. Harmony is THE #1 thing that separates a good band from an okay band.

[SLScott86]

Originally Posted by guido61

To show that the bands that end up being the most successful are the ones who just get out there and fucking do it. They get the gigs and they get better because the gigs demand it. They don't spend their lives in the basement fretting about whether every scale and arpeggio is perfectly understood and anunciated or whether the band is as tight as the band down the street.

They just do it. They get out there and entertain and energize the audience with every tool at their disposal. Musicianship included, but not even necessarily prioritized. It's rock and roll.

This is spot on. Not everyone works best under pressure though. I certainly do. My bandmates are more the seasoning types. Don't play it out until it's perfect. I'm more the "we WILL play this at the next show, so it had better be ready" type. I am the one giving that message, but I'm probably the one who needs that extra kick/deadline the most. Different strokes.

[SLScott86]

Originally Posted by guido61

To show that the bands that end up being the most successful are the ones who just get out there and fucking do it. They get the gigs and they get better because the gigs demand it. They don't spend their lives in the basement fretting about whether every scale and arpeggio is perfectly understood and anunciated or whether the band is as tight as the band down the street.

They just do it. They get out there and entertain and energize the audience with every tool at their disposal. Musicianship included, but not even necessarily prioritized. It's rock and roll.

This is spot on. Not everyone works best under pressure though. I certainly do. My bandmates are more the seasoning types. Don't play it out until it's perfect. I'm more the "we WILL play this at the next show, so it had better be ready" type. I am the one giving that message, but I'm probably the one who needs that extra kick/deadline the most. Different strokes.

[SeniorBlues]

Practice makes permanent, not perfect, but that applies to playing gigs. How many times have you heard a group playing a song and you got the impression that they thought, "well, the audience liked it, so it must be good enough." So they move on to the next group of songs. . . .

The most important reason to get gigs is to keep at least some of the guys in the band together and motivated (and, in some cases, solvent.)

You can't stop and correct things at a gig.