Backstage With the Band

[tlbonehead]

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Harmony is the thing that puts bands to the next level. anyone can go buy subs , but they dont have near the impact on pay as multiple part vocals.

but if you are playing stuff like ENTER SANDMAN with no lowend you will get sent back to your garage with no gigs regardless of how well you can sing elaborate harmonies.

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by tlbonehead

but if you are playing stuff like ENTER SANDMAN with no lowend you will get sent back to your garage with no gigs regardless of how well you can sing elaborate harmonies.

Your point is well taken , but high end gigs takes more than that kind of music still. If all it took was subs , every bar band in the country would be making big money, and we know they dont. Way too many people try to put the big PA cart before the talent horse and just end up as a lame band with a nice PA>

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by tlbonehead

but if you are playing stuff like ENTER SANDMAN with no lowend you will get sent back to your garage with no gigs regardless of how well you can sing elaborate harmonies.

Your point is well taken , but high end gigs takes more than that kind of music still. If all it took was subs , every bar band in the country would be making big money, and we know they dont. Way too many people try to put the big PA cart before the talent horse and just end up as a lame band with a nice PA>

[SpaceNorman]

If "return on investment" is truly what you're looking for - having high quality, genre appropriate vocals will move you up the chain far faster than investing in gear. That said however, you will struggle to deliver high quality, genre appropriate vocals is you don't have a PA that is properly sized, properly configured and properly mixed. You can typically throw money at the latter ... however, obtaining true high quality, genre appropriate vocals is something you either or something you simply don't have. If your current lineup doesn't have it - money spent on gear is money squandered.

[SpaceNorman]

If "return on investment" is truly what you're looking for - having high quality, genre appropriate vocals will move you up the chain far faster than investing in gear. That said however, you will struggle to deliver high quality, genre appropriate vocals is you don't have a PA that is properly sized, properly configured and properly mixed. You can typically throw money at the latter ... however, obtaining true high quality, genre appropriate vocals is something you either or something you simply don't have. If your current lineup doesn't have it - money spent on gear is money squandered.

[tlbonehead]

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Your point is well taken , but high end gigs takes more than that kind of music still. If all it took was subs , every bar band in the country would be making big money, and we know they dont. Way too many people try to put the big PA cart before the talent horse and just end up as a lame band with a nice PA>

but that is what the OP's band is playing.

[tlbonehead]

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Your point is well taken , but high end gigs takes more than that kind of music still. If all it took was subs , every bar band in the country would be making big money, and we know they dont. Way too many people try to put the big PA cart before the talent horse and just end up as a lame band with a nice PA>

but that is what the OP's band is playing.

[tlbonehead]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

If "return on investment" is truly what you're looking for - having high quality, genre appropriate vocals will move you up the chain far faster than investing in gear. That said however, you will struggle to deliver high quality, genre appropriate vocals is you don't have a PA that is properly sized, properly configured and properly mixed. You can typically throw money at the latter ... however, obtaining true high quality, genre appropriate vocals is something you either or something you simply don't have. If your current lineup doesn't have it - money spent on gear is money squandered.

yes, that is certainly true. Of course, playing in time together, playing in tune (without tuning live between every song) not having dead time between songs, etc, is also very important.

[tlbonehead]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

If "return on investment" is truly what you're looking for - having high quality, genre appropriate vocals will move you up the chain far faster than investing in gear. That said however, you will struggle to deliver high quality, genre appropriate vocals is you don't have a PA that is properly sized, properly configured and properly mixed. You can typically throw money at the latter ... however, obtaining true high quality, genre appropriate vocals is something you either or something you simply don't have. If your current lineup doesn't have it - money spent on gear is money squandered.

yes, that is certainly true. Of course, playing in time together, playing in tune (without tuning live between every song) not having dead time between songs, etc, is also very important.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by tlbonehead

Of course, playing in time together, playing in tune (without tuning live between every song) not having dead time between songs, etc, is also very important.

It all depends on the level at which you're playing. One of my projects has horrendous amounts of dead time between songs ... we finish a tune, we stop and high five one another, switch guitars, strum to check that they're still in tune, look at the set list, then look at one another as if to ask is that really what we're gonna play next? ... then everybody takes a drink, looks at one another again to see if everybody is ready ... finally, the drummer counts us into the next tune. The dead time between tunes is maddening to me!

However, we've got a lead vocalist who totally owns every tune that he sings - and the crowd LOVES him because of it. He simply commands the attention of the crowd - and belts it out like there's no tomorrow. We gig 1-2 a month (because that's how much we want to work) ... we fill our calendar by telling the bar owner what dates we want to play. Every table in the joint is reserved a week before we play.

All of this is because of our vocalist. All of the things you mentioned (playing in tune, dead time between songs, etc.) are important - and take whatever you have and helps you make the most of it. However, a crowd will overlook alot of the little stuff if there's a great vocalist involved.

Mind you, I'm NOT advocating anybody play out of tune, waste time between tunes constantly tuning or put lots of dead time between songs .... I'm simply saying that in my experience, crowds will "forgive lots of sins" if there's a great vocalist involved.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by tlbonehead

Of course, playing in time together, playing in tune (without tuning live between every song) not having dead time between songs, etc, is also very important.

It all depends on the level at which you're playing. One of my projects has horrendous amounts of dead time between songs ... we finish a tune, we stop and high five one another, switch guitars, strum to check that they're still in tune, look at the set list, then look at one another as if to ask is that really what we're gonna play next? ... then everybody takes a drink, looks at one another again to see if everybody is ready ... finally, the drummer counts us into the next tune. The dead time between tunes is maddening to me!

However, we've got a lead vocalist who totally owns every tune that he sings - and the crowd LOVES him because of it. He simply commands the attention of the crowd - and belts it out like there's no tomorrow. We gig 1-2 a month (because that's how much we want to work) ... we fill our calendar by telling the bar owner what dates we want to play. Every table in the joint is reserved a week before we play.

All of this is because of our vocalist. All of the things you mentioned (playing in tune, dead time between songs, etc.) are important - and take whatever you have and helps you make the most of it. However, a crowd will overlook alot of the little stuff if there's a great vocalist involved.

Mind you, I'm NOT advocating anybody play out of tune, waste time between tunes constantly tuning or put lots of dead time between songs .... I'm simply saying that in my experience, crowds will "forgive lots of sins" if there's a great vocalist involved.

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by tlbonehead

but that is what the OP's band is playing.

Its gonna be a tough sell to the corp, and pvt event bunch if all they play is heavy stuff like that. If you want the big money you do have to satisfy the big wallets in the corp and pvt event world. Just sayin

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by tlbonehead

but that is what the OP's band is playing.

Its gonna be a tough sell to the corp, and pvt event bunch if all they play is heavy stuff like that. If you want the big money you do have to satisfy the big wallets in the corp and pvt event world. Just sayin

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Its gonna be a tough sell to the corp, and pvt event bunch if all they play is heavy stuff like that. If you want the big money you do have to satisfy the big wallets in the corp and pvt event world. Just sayin

I don't think the OPs band is trying to target the private event/corp market. They are trying to move up the bar food chain.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Its gonna be a tough sell to the corp, and pvt event bunch if all they play is heavy stuff like that. If you want the big money you do have to satisfy the big wallets in the corp and pvt event world. Just sayin

I don't think the OPs band is trying to target the private event/corp market. They are trying to move up the bar food chain.

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by modulusman

I don't think the OPs band is trying to target the private event/corp market. They are trying to move up the bar food chain.

Its kinda like deep sea fishing in a mud puddle then. Most bars are not big enough to generate high pay. I had an experience musican try to tell me that the bar was making money on them. Small crowd, and a 400 dollar band. When they figured it out ,, to break even it was gonna take everyone there drinking 11 beers to pay the band. this did not include the staff or any of the overhead. The numbers gotta be there to make a big money out of a bar. Most bars just are not that big and most people dont drink enough.

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by modulusman

I don't think the OPs band is trying to target the private event/corp market. They are trying to move up the bar food chain.

Its kinda like deep sea fishing in a mud puddle then. Most bars are not big enough to generate high pay. I had an experience musican try to tell me that the bar was making money on them. Small crowd, and a 400 dollar band. When they figured it out ,, to break even it was gonna take everyone there drinking 11 beers to pay the band. this did not include the staff or any of the overhead. The numbers gotta be there to make a big money out of a bar. Most bars just are not that big and most people dont drink enough.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Its kinda like deep sea fishing in a mud puddle then. Most bars are not big enough to generate high pay. I had an experience musican try to tell me that the bar was making money on them. Small crowd, and a 400 dollar band. When they figured it out ,, to break even it was gonna take everyone there drinking 11 beers to pay the band. this did not include the staff or any of the overhead. The numbers gotta be there to make a big money out of a bar. Most bars just are not that big and most people dont drink enough.

And since you live where the OP does you know all about his bar scene.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

Its kinda like deep sea fishing in a mud puddle then. Most bars are not big enough to generate high pay. I had an experience musican try to tell me that the bar was making money on them. Small crowd, and a 400 dollar band. When they figured it out ,, to break even it was gonna take everyone there drinking 11 beers to pay the band. this did not include the staff or any of the overhead. The numbers gotta be there to make a big money out of a bar. Most bars just are not that big and most people dont drink enough.

And since you live where the OP does you know all about his bar scene.

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by modulusman

And since you live where the OP does you know all about his bar scene.

bar pay is a function of bar size. Bars have to sell enough product to cover the band pay and still make the bar money. Then you have the cover charge effect. They can pay more with a cover. Its not so much a scene deal as it is a numbers deal from the amount of product sold. Its one of the reasons why lots of bars have their gig pay capped at 3 and 4 hundred bucks. The size limits how much they can rake off the top. I am sure you understand that. A corp or pvt event doesnt have those restrictions since they are just throwing an event and are not trying to make a living off the the venue.


Speakin of private events ,, we crashed the border patrol christmas party last night since i had the night off . Interesting group lol