Backstage With the Band

[guido61]

Glad you're doing your own thing that feels great but let me just say this:

Bands and gigs are what you make them.   And that applies across the board whether you're playing clubs, private events or festivals.   We've played a TON of weddings and have never played one like what you describe for two reasons:

1) nobody that wants Merv and the Magictones for their wedding is going to hire us.  Since we sell ourselves as a party band with an emphasis on rock/dance music, we'd be absolutely the wrong band for an event that wants a wallpaper band.  If you want Merv, let me give you Merv's number.

2) we make sure the gigs don't become wallpaper gigs.  We make sure they are fun.  That's what we get hired to do.

The #1 that needs to be done when you're selling your band is make sure you're the right band for the gig.  Some guys really like just being background music and getting paid well for it.  Fine.  Let them do those gigs.  They'd be out of place trying to rock up a crowd.  We'd be out of place being the wallpaper band.   Don't fall into the "we'll take the gig anyway just because the money is good" trap.   It's almost NEVER worth it (unless your only other option is maybe working the graveyard shift at 7/11 or something...)   We've turned down many gigs where the client really wanted to hire us but it became clear that they would be better off with a different type of band.  "Don't waste your money and don't waste our time."   It's never worth it.  The best gigs are the ones where the event and the band are perfectly suited for each other.

[MartinC]

Spoiler

Why am I doing this? For the money. My very first solo background gig in 1983. I made 450.00

I was playing in a band at the time that opened for a whole list of superstar level acts. We made maybe 100. a man opening for people like Linda Ronstat, Santana, Los lobos,etc.

We were never gonna take a place among that level of acts-we simply weren't that good.

We also played dive bars for 50.00 a man and all the beer we could drink.

By 1993 I had a wife and kid and a day gig business that didn't earn me that much money. If someone offered me anywhere north of 250. to play solo I didn't care if they listened or not. I just played the best I could and usually something good happened. Someone would enjoy what I was doing, and that led to still more contacts and work.

As time went on I did more and more of this type of work-sometimes earning more than a grand for a gig. It didn't stop me from playing clubs, but it's true that as time went on, it became harder to get guys to play clubs for 100. when the other gigs were paying so much more. I made sure to make the very best use of the money possible-invested it, made mortgage payments, paid for vacations, etc.

I've played gigs just like your girl from i gig, and much worse ones too. And I've played ones that were a blast and we made bank. It's all part of it. As you get older you either get well known, or move into privates, or keep playing the clubs. Or some combo of the above. Or you stop playing out.  I've never had a problem booking pro full time musicians, many of whom were either playing or played in name bands, to do these gigs.  It's easy money.

I'll never claim that playing a snooze wedding is more fun that playing a concert. But after those terrible background/wedding/corporate gigs, I'd be driving home thinking I just made X for playing the guitar. SWEEET!

[GtrGeorge!]

I now somewhat regret making my post. Why? Because 1) While I respect Guido's comments.( I really do) ..I have already learned the lesson contained in his post and hence, don't need the advice (although I hope someone else will benefit from the post.) 2. The second poster likes MONEY. That's good to know. That's great. Everybody from the Pope to a Prostitute does,too. Have a nice time with that. The point of my original post was " what was the last situation that really motivated you to move on to a better thing?".... I was hoping people would share THEIR experiences, instead of judge MINE.

[jeff42]

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GtrGeorge! wrote:
 The point of my original post was " what was the last situation that really motivated you to move on to a better thing?".... I was hoping people would share THEIR experiences, instead of judge MINE.

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Not sure if you asked that cuz your original post is gone.

I will say in my early 20s I was stuck in a repeating cycle of:

Band practices for a few months
Band plays a few gigsband member quits for whatever reason (drugs, job, musical taste, vanishes, video games, girlfriend)
Band implodes
Band finds new member finally (pre-internet was harder)
Band practices for a few months

(REPEAT)

Had to get out of that cycle so I started looking outside the circle of musicians my age. Most of them were not into it like I was... not sure what some of them were into... LOL. Even the talented ones were so UNFOCUSED! Well when I started looking to play with guys older than me It worked!!!

I helped form There & Back Again when I was around 28 and that lasted for 10 years! Granted that band seems to have run its course it was a good run. We are all still friends and 5 out of the 6 of the "current" members have moved on to other things.

[guido61]

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GtrGeorge! wrote:
I now somewhat regret making my post. Why? Because 1) While I respect Guido's comments.( I really do) ..I have already learned the lesson contained in his post and hence, don't need the advice (although I hope someone else will benefit from the post.) 2. The second poster likes MONEY. That's good to know. That's great. Everybody from the Pope to a Prostitute does,too. Have a nice time with that. The point of my original post was " what was the last situation that really motivated you to move on to a better thing?".... I was hoping people would share THEIR experiences, instead of judge MINE.

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I'm sorry if I made you feel the need to delete your story.  I wasn't trying to judge it or harsh on it at all.   I was simply pointing out, as an additional viewpoint, that rather than blow off an entire class of gigs because some of them might not be fun, to try and learn how to A) choose the ones that will be the most fun and B) make them all as fun as possible.

[jeff42]

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 try and learn how to A) choose the ones that will be the most fun and B) make them all as fun as possible.

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We have started to do this with bar gigs (since that's what we mostly play)

There are a few rooms that are just awful to play... Boring uninspiring gigs that even if they pay decent we are backing off of playing them. One place that comes to mind is a great craft beer bar/ restaurant we played a few times- The pay is OK, the beer is awesome (and comp'd) but the crowd is just "meh." We did our last scheduled gig there recently and will not be perusing more. 

We have talked to other bands that play there and they are getting the same "meh" response from the crowd. The crowd that frequents is a dinner and a few craft beers type of crowd that bails before midnight. 

It just doesn't make sense to be bored for 4 hours when there are places we can play that pay the same or more and have a more active crowd. 

[StratGuy22]

We played a few curling bonspiels (tournament) a fri - sat thing. Fri night the curling was on full force until 2am so we played and it was petty much background almost like we were being ignored.

It was weird, but talking to people during the breaks, they loved us. Nothing but compliments.

The sat everything wrapped up by supper. Then the party was on.

Great gig but when we increased our price they went with a DJ. That's ok. I don't miss the stairs!!

[GtrGeorge!]

Guido. I dont know why..but you still missed the point.. what turned YOU around. Enough about me. This post is not about me. its about how we all can learn from things..and sometimes that worst thing (and yeah, it varies) leads you to a EUREKA moment and you jump that stumbling block. Ostrich-Guy: I totally hear you. I think sometimes a place just attracts an audience that you just cannot connect to..and if better options can be found, probably best to cultivate those. ...and of course..of course...try to make them fun. I do. (Even before Guido's advice).

[jeff42]

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GtrGeorge! wrote:
 Ostrich-Guy: I totally hear you. I think sometimes a place just attracts an audience that you just cannot connect to..and if better options can be found, probably best to cultivate those. ...and of course..of course...try to make them fun. I do. (Even before Guido's advice).

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I would rather play a fun place for less cash than a boring place for more... and come to think about it we did that last year. Great pay at a boring place. Turned down more gigs after we did the 3 we were booked for.

and Ostrich Guy... LOL. 

[guido61]

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GtrGeorge! wrote:
Guido. I dont know why..but you still missed the point.. what turned YOU around. Enough about me. This post is not about me. its about how we all can learn from things..and sometimes that worst thing (and yeah, it varies) leads you to a EUREKA moment and you jump that stumbling block.

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Well, certainly isn't the first time I missed a point!

What turned me around?   No worst-band situtation.  Just growing tired of playing club gigs until 2 AM for little money and realzing there's a whole 'nother world of gigs out there---it just requires working for them.   The "local club circuit" trap is such an easy one to fall into because it's the low-hanging fruit of live music.  The gigs are obvious: the places you drive by with a "live music" sign out front, and all you have to do is show up and play.  So all the bands go after those same gigs and the money drops according to supply and demand.  

[jeff42]

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guido61 wrote:

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GtrGeorge! wrote:
Guido. I dont know why..but you still missed the point.. what turned YOU around. Enough about me. This post is not about me. its about how we all can learn from things..and sometimes that worst thing (and yeah, it varies) leads you to a EUREKA moment and you jump that stumbling block.

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Well, certainly isn't the first time I missed a point!

What turned me around?   No worst-band situtation.  Just growing tired of playing club gigs until 2 AM for little money and realzing there's a whole 'nother world of gigs out there---it just requires working for them.   The "local club circuit" trap is such an easy one to fall into because it's the low-hanging fruit of live music.  The gigs are obvious: the places you drive by with a "live music" sign out front, and all you have to do is show up and play.  So all the bands go after those same gigs and the money drops according to supply and demand.  

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I remember reading about your band's transformation and it was great to see Jumpstart take off like it did. 

[Lee Knight]

I was pretty lucky through the 80's. And then again in the 90's when I picked it up again and found a cool gig. But... all through the years of not gigging, I'd get, and still do get calls to play pick up gigs or fill in. I always graciously turn it down. I'm just kind of done with live gigging. However...

...one time I said yes. It was for a wine tasting in a very, very rich part of town, they'll be filming the next Housewives of... there. Ranch Santa Fe, Ca. Anyway, I take the gig, literally a pick up with good players, we look over a potential list and decide and play the gig. The money was great. GREAT! But I will never do it again. No judgment on my part to those that play these types of gigs well, and actually, we played it well, even as a total pick up gig. I truly admire those that can nail these types of gigs.

BUT I HATED IT. Watching a guy with a pompadour playing Take the A Train on the sax while playing the organ with his right hand, schmoozing the crowd, shouting the changes even though we all knew it, and witnessing these... people... dancing with sticks up their asses. It was too much.

I can't do it. Never again. That experience convinced me to stay in the studio, write and produce. That's the better gig for me personally.

[guido61]

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jeff42 wrote:

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I remember reading about your band's transformation and it was great to see Jumpstart take off like it did. 

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Oddly enough, it's the PUBLIC gigs that are the least fun for us to play anymore.  We always have a couple every year---we'll decide to do an outdoor community event somewhere, or take a casino gig during a slow period just to keep playing--and it's almost always THOSE gigs that we are swearing to each other during load out that we're not going to waste our time doing this sort of stuff just for the money.  (And the money usually isn't that great at those gigs in the first place.)

Maybe we just aren't suited for such gigs anymore---maybe our current format just isn't what works well in general-public performances, or maybe it's because we have a near ZERO-sized 'following' due to not playing in public---but for whatever reason these sorts of gigs are almost always a drag.  I have a hard time imagining even taking a bar gig ever again, but never say never.  After typing that, we'll probably book one today.   lol.

In the meantime, we've managed to hit upon a formula that seems to be pretty much foolproof for any private event we do.  Just as long as we make sure they know what they are getting and we know what we are getting into.   Yeah, it's more work in a lot of ways--we spend more to do each gig than most bands make at a typical bar gig--but for us it's worth it.  We feel the extra rewards far exceed the additional effort.

[MartinC]

To the OP: If you read my post you'd see I was relating my own experience. Despite being in what some would consider a good situation, I found that playing the very same type of gig you didn't enjoy, to be what I needed and choose to do at that time. It worked out pretty well.

As far as my feelings about money, I'd rather make money playing than not, and the more the better. In fact, I'd rather get paid way more than I already do. The reality is, as most are aware, that there are guys who make 10,000 or more doing private gigs.

I don't, but I don't accuse those who can of being obsessed with money. Anyone who says they aren't interested in high paying gigs because they aren't "fun" most likely couldn't get that gig anyway. There are, of course, exceptions.

So to summarize, I went from playing in a band that did concerts and clubs for little money to leading a band that plays music that I mostly wrote for pretty decent money doing privates, corporates, and weddings.

[guido61]

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MartinC wrote:

Anyone who says they aren't interested in high paying gigs because they aren't "fun" most likely couldn't get that gig anyway.

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I find it all goes hand-in-hand.  You're not going to get paid the really good money unless you're very good at what you do and the people that hire you really like your performances, and if you're very good at what you do and people really like what you do, how can THAT not leave you with a very fulfilled feeling and leave the gig feeling satisfied, proud and successful?

Whether it's "fun" or not?  That all depends on the individual, I suppose.  I'm certain there are people who will play gigs that meet all those criteria but still not feel they had "fun" because they didn't like the style of music they were playing or didn't like the type of audience or whatever.  Although, in my experience, if you're not playing music you enjoy, and enjoy yourself while you're playing it, you're not going to ever be good enough to make really good money at it.  Again, it all goes hand-in-hand.

[guido61]

Actually, I DO remember "the" moment for me:

For me, gigging has always been as much about the ego-boost I get from having a crowd really dig the band and the personal attention I get from the chicks as it's been about the joy of playing the music itself.   And even though I've been happily married for years, I still enjoyed playing the low-paying sleezy club gigs because I liked flirting with the young pretty girls and having them flirt with me.  Shallow, I know.  But I'm sure many of you here can relate. 

And well into my forties, I was still getting lots of attention and having fun.  Sure, we weren't getting paid much, but the dance floor was full, people were having fun, and I had sexy 20-something girls wanting to do belly-shots off my stomach.  What could be better?

Then, one day, it all stopped.  Instead of flirting with girls during the break, I found myself sitting in the corner nursing a beer during the breaks and wondering why all the girls were looking at me like I was Creepy Old Dude.   Probably because I was.

So yeah, the gigs I used to be doing largely just for 'fun' weren't all that 'fun' anymore.  Time to find a new sort of 'fun' doing something different.

[mstreck]

I'm kinda late to this party, but our drummer bailed last Sept and we put on the brakes - no, we actually slammed on the brakes and life as we knew it came to a screeching halt!

So what did we do? Added a new drummer, added keys, added new songs, upgraded our PA, and we're now in the early stages of creating a quality light rig.

The result? A "better" band with a "better" mindset. Now our schedule is starting to get full again - and we've even added some new venues - and we have a very busy summer schedule.

Like someone here said to me back in September.... there is usually a silver lining to every bad situation.

[GtrGeorge!]

"Anyone who says they aren't interested in high paying gigs because they aren't "fun" most likely couldn't get that gig anyway. There are, of course, exceptions." I disagree. This conclusion completely ignores the salesmanship aspect of the bizness. There are plenty of people who get paid alot of money for gigs who aren't nearly as skilled as people working for low dough. Why? because they haven't developed the sales-aspect of the bizness. Let's be honest here. McDonalds does not make the best hamburgers. The sell Billions and billions because they had the bizness acumen to get all the best locations, keep and hold them while making consistantly cheap and fast food. The best burger is not found there. But they (every year) take in millions of of dollars. Is John Cougar the greatest singer? Was Phill Collins a great writer? No,...did they make lots of money?? yes. My examples may not be perfect but I think you see my point. The idea of what you get paid being a true test of your skill set (musically) is just not true. I think you misunderstood my OP, and think I said you were greedy or something...no I didn't. , I was just saying that you (like Guido) didn't comprehend my OP and instead posted a critique of what I posted. That's all.