Backstage With the Band

[ski219]

I play lead guitar in an original band and I am thinking about quitting. Thing is, I joined to have a creative outlet and to have fun. I am no longer having fun because we gig way more than I ever thought we would and most of our gigs suck. When I say suck I mean most are for little or no money and little or no audience. I would be OK with that if it were once a month but not every week. The band is decent..all good players, good song writers... I love writing guitar parts and working on arrangements and dynamics but we are spending all our time lately rehearsing for these crappy shows.

Now here's the thing, I am 55 and am the oldest in the band but not by all that much - most of the guys are mid 40's and one other is in his 50's. I have laid it on the line to these guys that 1) the chances of us actually "making it" are pretty much 0 and it will not happen by playing in every little place that will let us play for a half dozen people in the bar. 2) we suck as a live band. Our defacto band leader has become a persnickety perfectionist thinking that if we play everything perfectly it will help us. I hold out that we have no charisma and no interaction/connection with audiences...the times we have one we usually manage to lose them.

And the thing is we do sound good and I do like playing with this band. Things are coming to a head because one of the places we play in NYC offered us a regular slot every other Friday night. We live in CT about an hour and twenty minutes in to the village where we mostly play in NYC. I am not chasing a dream of making it with this band and don;t see why I should chase down to the village every other Friday just to play a crappy gig. "To build an audience" my fellow band members say. I say we have not managed to even hold an audience so how are we supposed to build one?

I have gigged plenty with both cover bands and original bands and this may be the best band musically I have ever been in. However, the gigs are becoming a drag. I have asks that we do fewer and try for things like festivals where there will be a built in audience but I seem to be on a different page...maybe chapter...than the rest of the band who will take whatever is booked no questions asked.

Just ranting I think I will be giving my notice soon.

[frankthomson]

BUMR DOOD.
i think ur suggestion is a good one; fewer gigs and festivals

[nchangin]

If your in it for fun and it's not fun it's better to walk away and try to not burn your bridges. I understand the working your butt off for 100.00 bucks to go play in some dive and lose 2 Fridays a month to do this is a total drag. However you could say you have medical family whatever issues vs the band sucks, or you could tell them the truth that you don't find it feasible to do these shows 1.5 hours away. Obviously your not in it for the money but as a hobby, I would have a sit down to discuss what's in the best interest of the band and each band member as well as goals and objectives. May be possible others in the bank feel the same as you but have not expressed themselves to the group.

[Tullsterx]

So, they're having a blast? And you're not? It doesn't sound like you guys are on the same page. I think the dream / delusion of "making it" is what makes being in a band fun for a lot of folks, and it seems like you don't have that feeling with this band, but, maybe they do. Your "finding common ground" idea is OK, but, it seems to me that there may be some more fundamental issues. Just my initial thoughts.

[FitchFY]

I'd say to excuse yourself from the band, but just be honest with the guys. No excuses needed - based on this thread, you're just not on the same page, which completely happens at all times in all echelons of "being in a band."

Belaboring it makes it worse; just talk to `em as friends and be honest that it's just not fun for you. Who knows? Maybe they'll pipe in and agree, or you just say "it's been real and fun, let's do one more and I'm out." High fives all around, right?

[Kramerguy]

Originally Posted by ski219

I play lead guitar in an original band and I am thinking about quitting. Thing is, I joined to have a creative outlet and to have fun. I am no longer having fun because we gig way more than I ever thought we would and most of our gigs suck. When I say suck I mean most are for little or no money and little or no audience. I would be OK with that if it were once a month but not every week. The band is decent..all good players, good song writers... I love writing guitar parts and working on arrangements and dynamics but we are spending all our time lately rehearsing for these crappy shows.

Have you addressed the idea of gigging less? I will agree that your chances of making it are far less than your chances of winning the powerball.. it's just a reality of the industry, as well as bias against older musicians, but still a reality. If your band leader believes this isn't true, well he's just wrong. Not to say you can't go the indie DIY route and make something of the band.. it's entirely possible to scratch out a living, assuming you are all willing to go on long tours and engage in solid branding, promotion, roster changes, etc.. it takes a well oiled machine to even start to make enough to live off of.

Originally Posted by ski219

Now here's the thing, I am 55 and am the oldest in the band but not by all that much - most of the guys are mid 40's and one other is in his 50's. I have laid it on the line to these guys that 1) the chances of us actually "making it" are pretty much 0 and it will not happen by playing in every little place that will let us play for a half dozen people in the bar. 2) we suck as a live band. Our defacto band leader has become a persnickety perfectionist thinking that if we play everything perfectly it will help us. I hold out that we have no charisma and no interaction/connection with audiences...the times we have one we usually manage to lose them.

I'm curious about this- you say you suck as a live band, but what do you attribute that to? As far as the leader proclaiming that playing a song better will help you with gaining an audience, I'd say he's an idiot. My band is living proof, as we generally suck live from an audio standpoint, to the point that I'm going over a years worth of footage and still having trouble finding a good audio clip, BUT, we are a party band and we take that job seriously, and party your face off. We sell ourselves, banter with the crowd, engage in social lubrication in every way, and most importantly we have a buttload of fun, and it shows at every gig- We have become one of the better bookings in the area for it. If your leader can't discriminate between a good show/performance and playing a song well, I'd say he failed as a leader and the band has no hope.

Originally Posted by ski219

And the thing is we do sound good and I do like playing with this band. Things are coming to a head because one of the places we play in NYC offered us a regular slot every other Friday night. We live in CT about an hour and twenty minutes in to the village where we mostly play in NYC. I am not chasing a dream of making it with this band and don;t see why I should chase down to the village every other Friday just to play a crappy gig. "To build an audience" my fellow band members say. I say we have not managed to even hold an audience so how are we supposed to build one?

How to build an audience is perhaps the biggest question and hurdle bands face. There is no single answer. Most bands have found that branding, or having a niche` is the answer, others have found that the music speaks to the right people and just does well. Targeting the correct demographic is a good start. Branding yourselves towards that demographic is also important. Promotion, visibility (physical and social-media wise), a solid "plan"- are all good things to any band.

Originally Posted by ski219

I have gigged plenty with both cover bands and original bands and this may be the best band musically I have ever been in. However, the gigs are becoming a drag. I have asks that we do fewer and try for things like festivals where there will be a built in audience but I seem to be on a different page...maybe chapter...than the rest of the band who will take whatever is booked no questions asked.

Just ranting I think I will be giving my notice soon.

I'd take a pause, and discuss this first with the leader, then with other members and find out where everyone stands.. it sounds like the problems also revolve around others being willing to take unpaid gigs, which in my book is a huge problem on several levels. You can do unpaid gigs time to time, but no way should they be more than 10% of the time, much less most of the time.

[ski219]

Well I think I have made up my mind to leave in the spring. All the points you guys say we should discuss we have already discussed. One of the good things about this band is we do have frank discussions. I have made no secret about my reluctance to gig and how I feel about out whet the kind of gigs we are playing are doing for us, nothing.

2 of the guys are adamant about gigging and said they are not sure if they want to be in a band with someone who is not 100% committed (that would be me). The others just go with the flow and, while they don't seem to love the gigs we play, would rather play them than not.

Kramer Guy you kind of answered your own question about connecting with audiences. We don't. We take too long between songs. Our frontman is over 300lbs and is kind of awkward in his attempts at communicating with the audience. We play every show like it is a showcase not a concert. My last band was classic rock cover band and we did a good job of keeping things moving and engaging the crowd...I realize that can be harder playing originals but I think it is far more important than playing perfectly.

[beatpoet]

I think you'll be most happy if you start up your own band with people who like to get the same things out of playing in bands as yourself.

[Pro Sound Guy]

Originally Posted by ski219

I play lead guitar in an original band and I am thinking about quitting. Thing is, I joined to have a creative outlet and to have fun. I am no longer having fun because we gig way more than I ever thought we would and most of our gigs suck. When I say suck I mean most are for little or no money and little or no audience. I would be OK with that if it were once a month but not every week. The band is decent..all good players, good song writers... I love writing guitar parts and working on arrangements and dynamics but we are spending all our time lately rehearsing for these crappy shows.

Now here's the thing, I am 55 and am the oldest in the band but not by all that much - most of the guys are mid 40's and one other is in his 50's. I have laid it on the line to these guys that 1) the chances of us actually "making it" are pretty much 0 and it will not happen by playing in every little place that will let us play for a half dozen people in the bar. 2) we suck as a live band. Our defacto band leader has become a persnickety perfectionist thinking that if we play everything perfectly it will help us. I hold out that we have no charisma and no interaction/connection with audiences...the times we have one we usually manage to lose them.

And the thing is we do sound good and I do like playing with this band. Things are coming to a head because one of the places we play in NYC offered us a regular slot every other Friday night. We live in CT about an hour and twenty minutes in to the village where we mostly play in NYC. I am not chasing a dream of making it with this band and don;t see why I should chase down to the village every other Friday just to play a crappy gig. "To build an audience" my fellow band members say. I say we have not managed to even hold an audience so how are we supposed to build one?

I have gigged plenty with both cover bands and original bands and this may be the best band musically I have ever been in. However, the gigs are becoming a drag. I have asks that we do fewer and try for things like festivals where there will be a built in audience but I seem to be on a different page...maybe chapter...than the rest of the band who will take whatever is booked no questions asked.

Just ranting I think I will be giving my notice soon.

Always remember it could be worse, and somebody has it way worse then you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjeMD...&feature=share

[3shiftgtr]

Hmmmm.....first you say this:

Originally Posted by ski219

2) we suck as a live band. Our defacto band leader has become a persnickety perfectionist thinking that if we play everything perfectly it will help us. I hold out that we have no charisma and no interaction/connection with audiences...the times we have one we usually manage to lose them.

....and then you say this:

And the thing is we do sound good and I do like playing with this band.

I have gigged plenty with both cover bands and original bands and this may be the best band musically I have ever been in.

So lemme see...your bandleader thinks that being good will help, but you think it is to no avail since you have no 'charisma' as a band?

And yet this is one of the best bands you've ever been in musically?

Then fix the charisma shit dude. You are bitching about gigs where no one gives a shit cuz no one is selling it onstage. Well, you know the problem, and the solution. Fix it or leave....but don't lay blame for lame turnout or response on anyone else but yourself.

Of course, there are details I'm not aware of, but I hope this lends a little perspective.

[ski219]

Originally Posted by 3shiftgtr

Hmmmm.....first you say this:



....and then you say this:



So lemme see...your bandleader thinks that being good will help, but you think it is to no avail since you have no 'charisma' as a band?

And yet this is one of the best bands you've ever been in musically?

Then fix the charisma shit dude. You are bitching about gigs where no one gives a shit cuz no one is selling it onstage. Well, you know the problem, and the solution. Fix it or leave....but don't lay blame for lame turnout or response on anyone else but yourself.

Of course, there are details I'm not aware of, but I hope this lends a little perspective.

The details you are not aware of are due to your less than careful reading of my rant. You are forgiven it is a rant after all. My problem with the band is our focus on gigging not our playing. I would be happy in this band gigging once a month or even less but we are gigging all the time at crappy little places with no crowd and it is punishing my poor little ego.

[Kramerguy]

Originally Posted by ski219

Kramer Guy you kind of answered your own question about connecting with audiences. We don't. We take too long between songs. Our frontman is over 300lbs and is kind of awkward in his attempts at communicating with the audience. We play every show like it is a showcase not a concert. My last band was classic rock cover band and we did a good job of keeping things moving and engaging the crowd...I realize that can be harder playing originals but I think it is far more important than playing perfectly.

Seems you also answered your own concerns there, but as you said, it's a rant.. I know how that is and will probably be posting my own today

[rvschulz]

Originally Posted by beatpoet

I think you'll be most happy if you start up your own band with people who like to get the same things out of playing in bands as yourself.

this was my take on my future musical experiences - dump the idiots i was playing with (i know - i'm harsh) and get some people who would be on the same page as i want to be musically and get along and have fun. after a month of interviewing and getting what i thought was the right group together - they changed their mind as a copllective about what they wanted to play and asked ME to leave.

moral of the story - some bands aren;t meant to be, even before they start. get over it and have some fun.

[New Trail]

Originally Posted by ski219

I play lead guitar in an original band.....I have gigged plenty with both cover bands and original bands and this may be the best band musically I have ever been in. However, the gigs are becoming a drag......Just ranting I think I will be giving my notice soon.

Originally Posted by ski219

......2 of the guys are adamant about gigging....My last band was classic rock cover band and we did a good job of keeping things moving and engaging the crowd...I realize that can be harder playing originals but I think it is far more important than playing perfectly.

Is this a covers vs. originals thing? Are other originals only bands in your area gigging to good crowds?

Originally Posted by beatpoet

I think you'll be most happy if you start up your own band with people who like to get the same things out of playing in bands as yourself.

I think it is supremely important for all members of the band to be on the same page about type of music to play, how many gigs per month, how much to charge, etc., etc., etc., etc.

[beatpoet]

Originally Posted by New Trail

I think it is supremely important for all members of the band to be on the same page about type of music to play, how many gigs per month, how much to charge, etc., etc., etc., etc.

Yeah, unless the money is so good that the members can afford to put their differences on the back burner!

[3shiftgtr]

Originally Posted by ski219

The details you are not aware of are due to your less than careful reading of my rant. You are forgiven it is a rant after all. My problem with the band is our focus on gigging not our playing. I would be happy in this band gigging once a month or even less but we are gigging all the time at crappy little places with no crowd and it is punishing my poor little ego.

Yeah...I read it. Every word. And at least you are manning up and saying that your ego is part of the problem.

I understand your problem as you state it. What you are missing is your responsibility in this problem. And that is a common misconception when egos are involved. So ask yourself this question: Is it a frequency of gigging problem or a nobody at the gig problem? If you had nice active crowds, would you be more willing to play more than once a month?

If you'd play more gigs if the crowds are good, then it is your responsibility to build the audience. Don't lay blame anywhere but on yourself if crowds ain't happening.

If you had packed houses but would still only do 1 gig a month, then just simply say to your bandmates that that is all you can do. All this blame posturing on the 'defacto band leader' and how you have all discussed solutions are all for naught. Just tell em that no matter how successful your crowds and gigs are, you just don't want to do more than 1 gig a month.

Simple.

[Sillypeoples]

You play live to try out new material...see how it floats...if you or the rest of the band don't understand that then you need to collectivelly all put the bongs down and rethink why you are playing original music to 'make it'.

[pdiddy]

Wow great subject! My .02. Lets start with the formula for success:
1. Youth
2. Marketing
3. Have shit together musically (talent & performance skills)
4. Charisma

It sounds like you have focused too much on #3 and become frustrated. Note that there is no number 5. Gig yourself to death.
Now, you're failing at number 1 and there's nothing you can do about it. Sounds like you haven't even thought about number 2. I'm giving you a pass on number 3. You acknowledge number 4 ain't happening when you play live.

Here is your get well plan:
1. Do you look as good as possible for your age? If not - get fit and dress the part.
2. Do you have someone outside the band working on getting you good gigs with an actual audience who would be receptive to your originals? Find & hire that manager.
3. Keep up the good work here.
4. On Charisma: Not everyone in the band needs to have it but someone in the band needs to have it and preferrably the person who does most of the singing. If you haven't got a front person who can work an audience you are dead in the water. It sounds like in your case the defacto band leader is lacking in this department. This is a tragic situation cuz its mostly counter productive to fire the boss and very hard to change the boss. However, since I get the feeling that you are among good musicians who are willing to work pretty hard (as evidenced by willingness to do these thankless gigs) you gotta give it a shot at improving #4. If you can improve here you will enjoy the gigs more and actually look forward to them. When the audience give you back something you just gain energy and can't wait for the next chance to play out.
Unfortunatly I don't know much about charisma - not having any myself. I do know it when I see it though and I'll bet you do too.
I thnk step 1 is to set a good example for your bandmates - is there an opportunity for you to introduce a song? Is there an opportunity for you to compliment a bandmember on their performance (that was so and so on the blah blah blah). Is there an opportunity to acknowledge an audience member in a positive way? Continue to ratchet this up until other band members start to get the idea or it comes up in a conversation. If they start to get it then you can all build on it and see where it leads. If the leader tells you to STFU and play your parts then you know its time to leave. But at least you will have made an effort to salvage the band AND they'll know why you left.

This is a bit therapeutic for me as my band situation could be better with an improvement in the charisma department also. Fortunately, since i'm in a cover band the audience usually gets into it on their own which is extremely helpful as I feel we don't add as much as we could to the overall ambience. Unfortunately you don't have the luxury of a built in audience reaction to recognizable tunes that I do. You are on the absolute toughest path, and without youth will not get far at the originals game even if you come up with the other three aspects. If you're really into the originals thing then your best path would be to demo them and try to sell them to young and upcoming bands as far as making it goes. If you want to enjoy live performance then you might consider swicthing over to a cover band situation (and one with a great front person at that!)

[Hegmatronicon]

You gotta figure out why you lose audiences. Its been my experience that ppl will stay if the band sounds good but lacks charisma. For the most part.

IMO - if the crowd is there - and you lose them - its because they dont like what they're hearing.

Edit: this isnt 100% solid tho. I mean - it can be frustrating if the band plays a good song - then takes 5 mins to go into the next one.
It's about set momentum.

[guido61]

You need to take a step back and re-assess: why are any of you doing this in the first place?

Let's look at basics of where you are right now: a band of mid-40 to mid-50 guys playing originals to less than receptive audiences in small clubs as often as possible. I'm having a hard time seeing what goal this business plan would achieve. Unless your goal is to simply play originals in a live setting as often as you can, you're probably not on the right path for doing much of anything else.

What's the long-term goal here? Let's establish that first and then talk about the steps to get there. As you said in the OP, your chances of "making it" are pretty much 0. Sorry to be harsh, but I don't know of ANY original bands that "make it" at your age. Let alone bands that have the other problems you've mentioned. So the goal of playing originals needs to be something other than "making it".

Doing it as a creative outlet and for a bit of fun, as you also said in the OP? Cool. As long as the rest of the band has the same modest goals, then you should be able to probably agree on the best way to do that to everyones satisfaction.