05-13-2013 02:50 PM - edited 05-13-2013 02:53 PM
I've found that things like cover charges (especially to hoppers), high drink prices or no specials, poor decor or atmosphere, disgusting restrooms and/or a generally dirty or smelly establishment will cripple even the best bands and banterers by the OP's standards. My point is that the burden falls on both the owners and the bands.
Yes, we do socials and encourage drinking to a point. But we also encourage people to come early and have dinner too (we play many places that have a decent dinner crowd) we try and keep people there. Most of the time we are pretty good at it. This helps the bottom line but the band should not shoulder the burden for a bar/club’s success.
The OP's club probably has very little in common with where I play normally… Even so, what about some of these things that bars are guilty of? (at least in PA)
Some you already mentioned- these things keep people away. some people have said... oh I won't go to BAR X cuz of one or more of the following:
* Lack of decent advertising/ promotion.- (they don't know who is playing)
* cover charges sometimes keep people away.
* drink prices or no drink specials keep people away.
* Ugly 40 year old decor, disgusting restrooms keep people away.
My point is that the burden falls on both the owners and the bands. Both can do more to make the “scene” better. I try to up our game as much as we can as often as we can. Keep it fun for us and them.
As far as dress goes. It’s different for every band. Some people hit the stage looking like they just got done mowing the lawn. Some can make that work for them, some, well not so much. The ones that do make it work, like mentioned before have something SPECIAL about them... IMO of course.
In my opinion there is room enough for it all, whatever we do, let’s do it as best as possible -whatever it is. Punk, country, metal, dance whatever… Just be entertaining!
05-13-2013 09:41 PM
Obviously the long term motivations of the band and the venue are not going to match up 100%. It is incumbent upon the band to find the best balance.
Well well well. My point exactly. That is the dillemma.
The rest of your post was really nice, tho'.
05-13-2013 09:58 PM
05-13-2013 10:09 PM
You agree with me that its incumbent upon the bands to find the best balance but still want to blame the club owners for putting the bands in a dilemma in the first place? Now THAT'S a contradiction'
It's only a dilemma for the bands who can't find the balance. Again, if they were taking care of their shit, there wouldn't be any barowners noticing that they don't shill for drinks or be paying attention to their headwear in the first place.
What are you arguing, that we agree that you can't always listen and follow every peice of advice from a bar owner? That is my point. That is what creates the dillema. A band could do a good job, but says "Hey this guy who is paying us, wants us to do all this shit from the stage. We might should listen to him since he pays us." or they could say "Hey, let's not heed the advice of the person who is paying us money for playing, and do what we feel might be best for us in the long term." Hmmmm....which do you choose? It's a dillema innit? I'm not sure what you are arguing at this point.
I wish we had the old :confused: emoticon.
05-13-2013 10:17 PM
05-13-2013 10:45 PM
What I'm saying is that I think that saying "you can't always listen to this advice" is the wrong thing to say to those who need that advice the most.
Lord have mercy.
A band has a dillema...listen to the bar owner and do what he says, or do what is best for them in the long term. It's a dillema.
Thanks for listening...you've been a great audience....be careful going home.
05-14-2013 06:30 AM
05-14-2013 07:12 AM
05-14-2013 07:23 AM - edited 05-14-2013 07:29 AM
I'm lucky enough to have two venues I regularly play where the bar owners totally get it. They want the bands to sell drinks, but they also only want good bands. They pay between $300-400 and that's about as high as they can afford.
I understand that different areas are well... different. with that said $300-$400 is low to average in my area. But small places can only afford so much. - and that's where my trio started. Small corner bars.
I had a discussion with a bar manager recently about future bookings in his place. They treat us well and it is fun... I did tell him that I understand his place which is the smallest room we book, can only aford so much. There is a limit to the amount of people that can be squeezed in and thus a limit to the amount of money they can offer a band. He knows it and I know it.
So there will be a time as we continue to drive our price up, where we will walk away from booking there because the money won't be there. We already did this with one venue, no hard feelings but when you are getting X amount of dollars at every where else you have to say no to place that still offers you less. Unless you don't care or you know the other bars wont find out that 1 guy gets you for less. Just my opinion and YMMV of course. We are all different.
05-14-2013 07:32 AM
So there will be a time as we continue to drive our price up, where we will walk away from booking there because the money won't be there. We already did this with one venue, no hard feelings but when you are getting X amount of dollars at every where else you have to say no to place that still offers you less.
Yeah that's a tough one. I guess because I HAVE to keep booking booking booking I tend to keep the cool places that pay me a little less. I understand that if a band is doing 100 gigs a year they get to go with highest dollar amount per venue. I think there's a BUT in there though. I'd rather play a venue for a lower amount that treats me well and loves me than a venue that pays me more and I hate going there.
05-14-2013 07:44 AM - edited 05-14-2013 07:46 AM
Potts wrote:Yeah that's a tough one. I guess because I HAVE to keep booking booking booking I tend to keep the cool places that pay me a little less. I understand that if a band is doing 100 gigs a year they get to go with highest dollar amount per venue. I think there's a BUT in there though. I'd rather play a venue for a lower amount that treats me well and loves me than a venue that pays me more and I hate going there.
Yeah nothing is ever 100% set in stone, always exceptions and variables to think about. Actually when we raised our rate last year one bar said they couldn't do the full raise (they bumped us up a little) but we kept them on anyway because they were a fun place to play. Just less shows.
I agree a cool place that pays less wins over a place that pays more but is awful. We try to keep all the places the same pay as much as possible but it never works 100% of the time.
The only time I don't really budge at all is the 3 places we play in our hometown because they ALL talk to each other. LOL
05-14-2013 07:44 AM
05-14-2013 07:46 AM
I doubt there is much of anyone here who hasn't played a gig for less money because it was more enjoyable in other aspects.
05-14-2013 04:41 PM
I think the days of bars being viable businesses are over:
Even now they have to routinely violate the law to survive . It has been the law for years in Massachusetts that it isn't legal to serve an intoxicated person. How many bars do yous guys know that cut folks off after 2-3 beers? If they go to 0.05, a non-Walmart-sized female would possibly be in violation after a single drink .
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