Backstage With the Band

[vablows]

Anybody using these?

My singer has a set and we are going to be trying them out this weeknd but I wondered if anyone has any tips on getting the most out of them since I have never used these before.

I know of a ll the pros, any cons?

[guido61]

What's your monitor set up?  Depending on what you're using and how you're using it, the pros and cons will be vastly different.

1) ideally you want separate monitor mixes for each user.  Sharing a mix with other members of the band is going to be problematic.

2) you really want to invest in molded buds.  The sound quality difference is enormous.

3) they take time to get used to.  It's an entirely different environment from wedges.  The majority of uses fall in the "once you'll use them you'll never go back" catagory, but not all.  I'm in the former catagory, but it took some time.  

4) the biggest 'con' is the feeling of being cut-off from the audience.  There are different ways around this depending on your monitor set up.

[dboomer]

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guido61 wrote:

4) the biggest 'con' is the feeling of being cut-off from the audience.  There are different ways around this depending on your monitor set up.

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I agree.  You'll need to set up a mic that can pick up the audience and put them in his ear so he will be able to interact with them.  The best way I have found to do this is with a reverse gate.  IWO the gate shuts off as the level rises (the song starts) and opens as it gets lower ...as in between songs.

[THX1138]

I had a very difficult time being cut off from the crowd.  Took the energy right out of the show for me.  But, I found a solution that works for me...  I go the one in, one out route - only use one of the buds.  Get the FOH mix in one ear, stage and crowd in the other. 

[guido61]

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THX1138 wrote:

I had a very difficult time being cut off from the crowd.  Took the energy right out of the show for me.  But, I found a solution that works for me...  I go the one in, one out route - only use one of the buds.  Get the FOH mix in one ear, stage and crowd in the other. 

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I've done this too.  Or, more commonly, I leave one "cracked" open.  This is always highly NOT recommended, but as near as I can figure, the only reason you should never do it would be if there were a temptation to keep turning up the IEM because the stage volume was so loud.

Our stage volume is quiet, so that really isn't an issue.  And as long as you set-it-and-forget-it, then I don't see how it could cause any damage.

Another option is some IEM manufacturers will drill an "ambient" hole in the bud so you can hear better.  I've read some comments saying this isn't a good thing (although I can't now remember why).  Both the singers in my band have this and swear by it.  But since I've never had buds with them, and they've never had buds without, there's really no way to compare.

[THX1138]

Yeah, if you keep cranking it due to ear fatigue or whatever, get yourself in trouble.  I do what you said, set n forget.  Both of our guitarists run direct out modeling rigs, so there arent any gtr cabs on stage.  Only stage noise is from the drums and my bass rig.  I generally turn the IEM up just enough to balance things out.

[vablows]

Thanks for the comments!

I am going to find out exactly what we have tomorrow at rehearsal and see how it feels initially.

Then I can figure out if it will work live or not, we have a big event next month and I may give them a go depending on how they feel at rehearsal.

[guido61]

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vablows wrote:

 I may give them a go depending on how they feel at rehearsal.

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Keep an open mind.  When we first tried them the decision to "go" with them was based largely on everyone being able to see the potential of how good they could be.  But at first it was all REALLY WEIRD.   But the potential was also pretty obvious.

I'd never go back now, but it does take some getting used to.   One of my big motivators is I'm worried about preserving as much as however-much-hearing-I-have-left as possible.  The fact that I haven't come home from a gig with my ears ringing in the last 2 years is a big one.

[SpaceNorman]

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guido61 wrote:  Keep an Open Mind

^^^ This !!!!   First, just getting used to wearing my custom ear buds took a little time.   If you haven't worn IEM ear buds - they're different.  They're designed to be inserted a ways into your ear canal.  Lots of folks (myself included!) find this to be uncomfortable at first.   I had to insert / remove mine numerous times and wear them for a few hours before I got used to them.  If you're planning to pull them out of the box - and jump on stage with 'em - don't!   Now that I'm used to 'em - they're comfortable enough that I often forget that I'm wearing them.  

It will also take you a little bit of time getting used to using them with the band.   The mechanics of communicating with your bandmates when you're sonically isolated from talking to them takes some getting used to.   The sense of isolation from the crowd also takes some getting used to.   Resign yourself to the fact that it will feel weird when you first start using them - but do so knowing that you will get used to them - and that once you get used to them and get the mix dialed in - you'll never go back!   The clarity is incredible - as is the fact that you don't have to go home with ears ringing !!!!    

[Opus Antics]

Add me to the "give it some time and once you get used to it you'll never go back" crowd. 

It took a while to get used to it.  I do often wear just one bud because we don't have the drums running through the mix, and that lets me also hear the crowd.

Not having to lug monitors and extra cables around, reducing the clutter onstage, protecting your hearing, and keeping volume down are all tangible benefits.

[chrispeters]

i have had a few of these , the sennheiser being the best by far .

i could not gig without them myself .

i hate the moulded type(block out TOO much) , i much prefer the earbud type and have just my vocals running thru them and a little bit of the track . .. i am solo , so dont have to put up with the noise of the back line lol .so i couldnt advise u there , if yer back line is horrendously loud for you , then moulded is the way to go .

[WynnD]

Our lead vocalist has IEMs and puts them in and out throughout the night. (And almost always wants turned up in the audience immediately.) He only has himself in the IEMs. Claims he doesn't have any problem with pitch while they're in. I'm guessing that the bass is getting past the molded buds. We have noticed that when he has them in his ears, he backs off the mic. (All the time asking for a stronger signal for his IEMs. Problem is that they're already all the way up on my end. He has a volume control on his receiver. I'm guessing that he's running them all the way up and is looking for more volume.) I've heard bands where all you hear is the singer and I've heard bands where you couldn't hear the singer. And I've heard bands where hearing the primary singer is easy and hearing the alternate lead vocalists is near impossible. All of these situations are bad. I've got to record the band live from the audience point of view. That should clarify what is really happening. (Is it just his perception or is it really a problem?) He does claim to be ignorant about music. I claim to be knowledgeable about sound. (I am mixing from the stage. Not the easiest situation, but something that I've been doing for 20 years.) Personally, anyone who only thinks about curing all sound problems by turning something up isn't seeing the entire picture. 80 percent of the time, turning something down will fix the problem better.

[RoadRanger]

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WynnD wrote:
Personally, anyone who only thinks about curing all sound problems by turning something up isn't seeing the entire picture. 80 percent of the time, turning something down will fix the problem better.

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Yah, I learned me how to mix "down" in the bad old days when you'd usually have to max out the system to cover the venue and there was no "up" left  .

[hockeyguy]

I used them for the first time this week. Shure 425 dual drivers with the meduim foam tips. They're terrific. Great Isolation and WAY quiter than a monitor blowing at your head. I'm a drummer and am wondering if the send back to your IEMs have any "processing" on the drums. By that I mean gates or eq on the signal coming back to you earphones, similar to what is sent to FOH. I use a buttkicker and the having that without the IEMs is great, having it with them is wonderful. Any ideas would be great.

[Crownman]

If there is any processing such as gates, eq, or comps inserted on the drum channels then yes, you will get the processed sound in your iems. And as far as the individual channel eq's go, it all depends on if they are before or after the aux send for that channel.