Backstage With the Band

[mr3lions]

Potts,

I don't see SM's initial reply as coming across as vain, but hey, different strokes.  I think it's sound advice

I'm sure he does appreciate the sage advice of someone who's been here for an entire 6 months rather than his "few weeks" though.

On a less sarcastic note, I was playing some vids from your site and I really like what you're doing.  More importantly Mrs3Lions liked it and that is a rarity for her as she's not much of a fan of what's posted on these boards.

cheers.

[GtrGeorge!]

Yes, Forest RUN!!!!!!! If the Bar owner is serious about their own success they would already know what you do and what your draw is. That is not hard to determine. Any non-sense about Good night/Bad night is based upon the fact that they do not know what they are getting, therefore they dont know how to price it. So basically, they dont know what they are doing. I stear clear of people who dont know what they are doing. You should too, if you want some advice. You can talk to them more and waste your time (which is money, btw)..or you can run. I say RUN. Any bizness that intends on being there in bizness next year will know what entertainment costs, what they get (in terms of crowd etc etc). There are no free lunches,folks. And you should know what you bring,too. Are you playing music people want to hear? Do you dress inappropriattely for the venue? Do you constantly improve or stay about the same year after year??? Know your stuff, or go home.....or play at a dump room for EXPOSURE. Did you know people DIE from exposure? GtrGeorge of Holiday Road

[MDLMUSIC]

I've related this before, but since it's apropos to the post, here it is again.

After doing one of my regular gigs at a local dive, the owner asked why I never brought any of my friends, family, or co-workers with me when I played there. I told him that none of the people I associate with would ever set foot in a bar like his. Sad, but true.

[Potts]

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mr3lions wrote:

Potts,

I don't see SM's initial reply as coming across as vain, but hey, different strokes.  I think it's sound advice

I'm sure he does appreciate the sage advice of someone who's been here for an entire 6 months rather than his "few weeks" though.

On a less sarcastic note, I was playing some vids from your site and I really like what you're doing.  More importantly Mrs3Lions liked it and that is a rarity for her as she's not much of a fan of what's posted on these boards.

cheers.

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The first part of this post was what the "Kudos" button is for. That was probably one of the better responses I've seen to a post and I'm actually laughing out loud.  

Thank you for the compliments too. Tell your Mrs. that I said thank you as well!  

[mshifflett]

+1

I don't do this full time but have been at it for a long while now.  Over the years I have definitely seen a shift in "following".  It has slowly moved from bands having a following, to venues having a following.  Sure there is still some middle ground between the two, but from the places we play people seem to go out to venues now to hear bands, regardless of who they are (unless they really suck of course)

[StratGuy22]

It's up to the venue to provide great bands, so no matter when you go, you can count on it being good, even if you've never heard the band before.

[GtrGeorge!]

AGAIN, ...... If the Bar owner is serious about their own success they would already know what you do GtrGeorge

[SpaceNorman]

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mshifflett wrote:

Over the years I have definitely seen a shift in "following".  It has slowly moved from bands having a following, to venues having a following....

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Really?   My experience has been the exact opposite. 

Back in the early/mid '80s I played with a full time "Top 40" act that played all over Michigan.   We were booked into venues that were known for having quality live entertainment 4-6 nights a week - and landed those jobs based on the quality of our performance.   We got hired because we had a proven ability to deliver a quality show to the venue's crowd - NOT because we could be counted on to bring our crowd with us.  

Today - every bar owner is focused on extracting assurances about what kind of following we'll bring to their venue.  The forum is full of posts from others finding themselves in the same situation.  Virtually every quality new bands who haven't yet developed a following finds themselves wrestling with the obstacle.  

[inu]

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jeff42 wrote:

After I explained we book out 4-6 months in advance and she asked me how much we charge She then asked 2 red flag questions

" What about if we have a bad night?"

and

"How many people will you bring?"

You are right, they are red flag questions.

To me good promoter's questions are:

"- Hello, I do the programmation for Club A. We would like to book your band. The capacity of the the venue is xxx and we can offer you yyy. Do you agree?"

or

"- Hello, I do the programmation for Club B. We would like to book your band. The capacity of the the venue is xxx. How much do you ask for playing?

- We ask $$$

- Sorry, this would be too much for us. Would you agree to take $$?" (eventually "and a percentage of the door/bar revenue")

Put it in another way, it's okay to discuss the asked price knowing the risk taken to not recoup but, it's stupid to ask you to draw the crowd to THEIR venue. (well it has been said by others). In other words, I stay away to any pay-to-play/bring your own crowd kind of business...

[jeff42]

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StratGuy22 wrote:
It's up to the venue to provide great bands, so no matter when you go, you can count on it being good, even if you've never heard the band before.

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I agree. There are really only 2 places we play on a regular basis in my hometown, usually once every month to month and a half between shows. 

BAR A: Has a small roster of bands that the built in crowd loves. The owner is very picky about who he lets play at the bar. We always have a good crowd there and it is mostly regulars mixing with our small loyal  following. 

BAR B: Used to be like Bar A until about a year and a 1/2 ago when the new bar manager just started hiring any band that would play for door money. Sure they still hire bands at a flat fee like mine and other "established acts" but the crowd isn't as constant because there is not much left to the "regular crowd." No one goes there every weekend because the quality of the live music fluctuates immensely. No one wants to listen to an awful live band.

Even though both places pay us the same, treat us well and the staff is very nice- Guess what place I like playing more?

[guitarguy19]

How the hell do you reply with a quote on here???

Anyway...SpaceNorman I disagree with you...and we're in the same market. NONE of the places we play ask these types of questions. We're paid to play and put on a good performance. If we bring a crowd, which many times we at least bring some people, it's gravy. We're not a drawing band. We play the clubs that are hotspots and already have a great base of people there to have a good time. Bars and clubs love us becuase the majority of the people stay, dance, and visibly have more fun than when other bands perform the same slots.

[SpaceNorman]

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guitarguy19 wrote:

How the hell do you reply with a quote on here???

 Anyway...SpaceNorman I disagree with you...and we're in the same market. NONE of the places we play ask these types of questions. We're paid to play and put on a good performance. If we bring a crowd, which many times we at least bring some people, it's gravy. We're not a drawing band. We play the clubs that are hotspots and already have a great base of people there to have a good time. Bars and clubs love us becuase the majority of the people stay, dance, and visibly have more fun than when other bands perform the same slots.

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Hey, we're in the same neck of the woods ... I'm gonna have to hit your website and start checking out the places you're playing!  The joints I work are all looking for assurances that we'll be bringing a crowd.  Just another case that proves that the music game is like the blind guys and the elephant.  It can be a wall, a rope or a big hose depending on what part of the elephant you're touching!

As far as quotes go ... just hit the "Reply" button.  When the blank response screen appears - look at the top right corner of the blank response box - and you'll see a blue "Quote" button.  Hit that button and the post you're responding to will be placed in the blank response box - in gray.

[J.Paul]

I recently had a similar scenario w/ a weekday gig at a restaraunt-bar w/ a new name/new management/new theme.

The owner was concerned about draw and I was very clear that it was my job to entertain the crowd that normally comes to the venue. He was excited to book it and move forward.

I loaded in at 3:30pm (deadest  quietest time ~ and most considerate time to soundcheck).... was told (by the shift manager..... the owner wasn't there and didn't come) there was Bingo that night and that I could set-up after they were done. Which is what I did. Of course everyone left before I was able to play. I managed to keep one table of straglers there 2 hours longer than they normally stayed.... which is my job.

So if all gajillion of my middle aged fan base had come to my week night 8:30 set that didn't start until 9:30, how many drinks could they buy before they have to be back to relieve the baby sitter at 10:00? Attendance numbers are not the goal for a local bar gig (alcohol sales IS)..... asking how many people I'm gonna bring to a middle of the week gig that I don't get a soundcheck for doesn't cut it when I'm playing four hours of other people's music ~ otherwise I would :

A) be playing originals instead of covers

B) only be playing an hour instead of four hours and

C NOT be playing in Murfreesboro (but be playing dowtown Nashville)

The set was killer BTW. The bartender (and the leftover table of bingoers) loved me....

I'm gonna check back in the fall if the place is still standing.

[FitchFY]

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J.Paul wrote:

asking how many people I'm gonna bring to a middle of the week gig that I don't get a soundcheck for doesn't cut it when I'm playing four hours of other people's music ~ otherwise I would :

A) be playing originals instead of covers

B) only be playing an hour instead of four hours and

C NOT be playing in Murfreesboro (but be playing dowtown Nashville)

Amen to this!