Amps

[rufus21]

Originally Posted by Weathered

A guy I work with is a died-in-the-wool Pinarello fan - he and his wife both ride Princes, and his love of them has me looking at them. My other target is a Felt Z4 - my Z85 has served me very well, and moving to carbon would be the next real step.

Tell me about the Z85. There's a guy I know who bought a really cheap Schwinn off from Amazon, just to see if he liked riding, and now apparently he does enough that he wants to get a better bike. He was looking at getting a Motobecane from Bikes Direct, but the local EMS has the Z85 for 15% off, has one in a 58cm(he's a big guy) but not built up. They do have a 58cm Z95, so at least he could try it out and see if it will fit him, or if he needs the 61, which can be had from another EMS.

Don't see too many reviews of it online, and while it's not equipped as well as the Motobecane, I think it would be a better frame. It'll also be about $250 cheaper, and cost is a factor for him. And, while it shouldn't really play a part, I just think he'll feel better cruising around on a Felt rather than a Motobecane. I'm shallow, so I know I would.

Edit: Well, I see you already have.

[blckbldng]

I cant stand speedometer on bicycle. Average speed info is always killing me so I never use mine.
Also I much prefer mountainbiking to road cycling. I just use my roadbike to go to work. I plan to go at least twice a week when the weather will get better. (40 km each way)

I already posted my bikes several times but as hey are comparatively better than my guitars and amps here they are again :

[blckbldng]

I cant stand speedometer on bicycle. Average speed info is always killing me so I never use mine.
Also I much prefer mountainbiking to road cycling. I just use my roadbike to go to work. I plan to go at least twice a week when the weather will get better. (40 km each way)

I already posted my bikes several times but as hey are comparatively better than my guitars and amps here they are again :

[newholland]

had a good day out today- a buddy of mine and i headed over the nearby ridge into the adjoining valley, hitting a ton of hardpack dirt roads-- got ourselves a cuppa joe and a bagel with cream cheese about 20 miles in- then hopped back on the bikes and rode further up the valley and concatenated two of the nastier climbs in the county ouch. but the trip back down the ridge was worth it. looks like we put in 45 or so, and the temps stayed up near about 40-- so it was a good day out without freezing our butts off- not bad for january. i really gotta bring my damn camera...

[newholland]

had a good day out today- a buddy of mine and i headed over the nearby ridge into the adjoining valley, hitting a ton of hardpack dirt roads-- got ourselves a cuppa joe and a bagel with cream cheese about 20 miles in- then hopped back on the bikes and rode further up the valley and concatenated two of the nastier climbs in the county ouch. but the trip back down the ridge was worth it. looks like we put in 45 or so, and the temps stayed up near about 40-- so it was a good day out without freezing our butts off- not bad for january. i really gotta bring my damn camera...

[Weathered]

Originally Posted by rufus21

Tell me about the Z85. There's a guy I know who bought a really cheap Schwinn off from Amazon, just to see if he liked riding, and now apparently he does enough that he wants to get a better bike. He was looking at getting a Motobecane from Bikes Direct, but the local EMS has the Z85 for 15% off, has one in a 58cm(he's a big guy) but not built up. They do have a 58cm Z95, so at least he could try it out and see if it will fit him, or if he needs the 61, which can be had from another EMS.

Don't see too many reviews of it online, and while it's not equipped as well as the Motobecane, I think it would be a better frame. It'll also be about $250 cheaper, and cost is a factor for him. And, while it shouldn't really play a part, I just think he'll feel better cruising around on a Felt rather than a Motobecane. I'm shallow, so I know I would.

Edit: Well, I see you already have.

The Z is a really nice series - it's still fast, but it's relaxed enough that it doesn't feel like you're trying to win the Tour De France. Despite being aluminum, it's reasonably compliant. Having ridden stiffer frames, it doesn't seem to transfer all of your pedal stroke to the wheels, but it's certainly not slow. Personally, as someone who likes riding 25+ miles per ride and isn't a professional, the geometry is about perfect for me.

What's the guy looking for in terms of geometry? I personally wouldn't be able to buy any bike without riding it first to know whether the geometry works for me. Even with the spects available, there are details that can make or break a frame for my preference.

Originally Posted by blckbldng

Nice! Which series frame is that? The Orca is on my radar as well, and being that my company sponsors a pro cycling team that rides Orbea, I actually would have a chance to pick up a Gold with upgrades for cheap during our charity auction - I think the fully built up Gold with SRAM Red went for $3,500 last year.

[Weathered]

Originally Posted by rufus21

Tell me about the Z85. There's a guy I know who bought a really cheap Schwinn off from Amazon, just to see if he liked riding, and now apparently he does enough that he wants to get a better bike. He was looking at getting a Motobecane from Bikes Direct, but the local EMS has the Z85 for 15% off, has one in a 58cm(he's a big guy) but not built up. They do have a 58cm Z95, so at least he could try it out and see if it will fit him, or if he needs the 61, which can be had from another EMS.

Don't see too many reviews of it online, and while it's not equipped as well as the Motobecane, I think it would be a better frame. It'll also be about $250 cheaper, and cost is a factor for him. And, while it shouldn't really play a part, I just think he'll feel better cruising around on a Felt rather than a Motobecane. I'm shallow, so I know I would.

Edit: Well, I see you already have.

The Z is a really nice series - it's still fast, but it's relaxed enough that it doesn't feel like you're trying to win the Tour De France. Despite being aluminum, it's reasonably compliant. Having ridden stiffer frames, it doesn't seem to transfer all of your pedal stroke to the wheels, but it's certainly not slow. Personally, as someone who likes riding 25+ miles per ride and isn't a professional, the geometry is about perfect for me.

What's the guy looking for in terms of geometry? I personally wouldn't be able to buy any bike without riding it first to know whether the geometry works for me. Even with the spects available, there are details that can make or break a frame for my preference.

Originally Posted by blckbldng

Nice! Which series frame is that? The Orca is on my radar as well, and being that my company sponsors a pro cycling team that rides Orbea, I actually would have a chance to pick up a Gold with upgrades for cheap during our charity auction - I think the fully built up Gold with SRAM Red went for $3,500 last year.

[newholland]

Originally Posted by Weathered

Right now I'm riding a Felt Z85 - standard $1K fare (aluminum frame, carbon fork, Shimano 105) with a semi-relaxed geometry. The frame geometry is perfect for me, and the ride is relatively comfy, but I want to go a bit lighter, hence the desire to go to carbon. I actually almost bought a Specialized Tarmac this summer, but I didn't like the ride as much as my Felt, so I couldn't justify the cost just to go to a carbon frame.

hm. y'know-- riding hydroformed aluminum myself-- there MIGHT be advantages to gain going to carbon.. but y'know.. i just dunno. i can honestly tell ya, though-- a caad 10/3 (ultegra equipped) wouldn't outright kill a pinarello-- but it'd be close. a caad10 frame weighs in at 1200g (which is lighter than a LOT of carbon- particularly in the 2-4k range), and could save you a heap of cash. i know it's not carbonium... but i haven't ridden a carbon frame that i thought really outrode a caad 10- certainly none of the madones, not felts, and honestly, none of the cannondales-- but I never got a chance to ride the super6 evo. 'course, i couldn't AFFORD one, either..

i know it's totally de rigeur to rock the carbon.. but we're in a super golden era of amazing aluminum frames that ride like steel, and weigh LESS than carbon- and the only detriment i can find is that they're not chosen by pro teams. but i can point to a WHOLE lot of amateur teams decking out caad10's for low dolla and winning races on 'em.. i actually know a few cat 2's and 3's who ditched carbon and went that direction, 'cause the spare scratch lets you put more money into lower rotating weight wheels, and there's negligible feel differences. hell.. i'm building a set of white industries hubs up with stans 340s for race wheels, and i'll be down at around 16ish pounds for well less than 2 grand (rival/force equipped.. i don't like the look of modern ultegra..).

i dunno.. just summit to think about. a pinarello's gonna draw a lot more attention though!

[newholland]

Originally Posted by Weathered

Right now I'm riding a Felt Z85 - standard $1K fare (aluminum frame, carbon fork, Shimano 105) with a semi-relaxed geometry. The frame geometry is perfect for me, and the ride is relatively comfy, but I want to go a bit lighter, hence the desire to go to carbon. I actually almost bought a Specialized Tarmac this summer, but I didn't like the ride as much as my Felt, so I couldn't justify the cost just to go to a carbon frame.

hm. y'know-- riding hydroformed aluminum myself-- there MIGHT be advantages to gain going to carbon.. but y'know.. i just dunno. i can honestly tell ya, though-- a caad 10/3 (ultegra equipped) wouldn't outright kill a pinarello-- but it'd be close. a caad10 frame weighs in at 1200g (which is lighter than a LOT of carbon- particularly in the 2-4k range), and could save you a heap of cash. i know it's not carbonium... but i haven't ridden a carbon frame that i thought really outrode a caad 10- certainly none of the madones, not felts, and honestly, none of the cannondales-- but I never got a chance to ride the super6 evo. 'course, i couldn't AFFORD one, either..

i know it's totally de rigeur to rock the carbon.. but we're in a super golden era of amazing aluminum frames that ride like steel, and weigh LESS than carbon- and the only detriment i can find is that they're not chosen by pro teams. but i can point to a WHOLE lot of amateur teams decking out caad10's for low dolla and winning races on 'em.. i actually know a few cat 2's and 3's who ditched carbon and went that direction, 'cause the spare scratch lets you put more money into lower rotating weight wheels, and there's negligible feel differences. hell.. i'm building a set of white industries hubs up with stans 340s for race wheels, and i'll be down at around 16ish pounds for well less than 2 grand (rival/force equipped.. i don't like the look of modern ultegra..).

i dunno.. just summit to think about. a pinarello's gonna draw a lot more attention though!

[Weathered]

Originally Posted by newholland

a pinarello's gonna draw a lot more attention though!

Ain't that the truth...

I am thinking that this summer, I'm going to invest in new wheels for the Z. Thinking I'll just have my local bike shop build up some basic wheels using Ultegra hubs and Mavic Open Pros - shouldn't be high buck, but it'll be better than the stock Felt wheels. I already moved to Michelin Pro4 tires, which were a huge upgrade from the Vittoria tires that shipped on the frame.

[Weathered]

Originally Posted by newholland

a pinarello's gonna draw a lot more attention though!

Ain't that the truth...

I am thinking that this summer, I'm going to invest in new wheels for the Z. Thinking I'll just have my local bike shop build up some basic wheels using Ultegra hubs and Mavic Open Pros - shouldn't be high buck, but it'll be better than the stock Felt wheels. I already moved to Michelin Pro4 tires, which were a huge upgrade from the Vittoria tires that shipped on the frame.

[newholland]

Originally Posted by Weathered

Ain't that the truth...

I am thinking that this summer, I'm going to invest in new wheels for the Z. Thinking I'll just have my local bike shop build up some basic wheels using Ultegra hubs and Mavic Open Pros - shouldn't be high buck, but it'll be better than the stock Felt wheels. I already moved to Michelin Pro4 tires, which were a huge upgrade from the Vittoria tires that shipped on the frame.

hell yes, good thinking. if you wanna save even MORE scratch, go with 105's. functionally identical, just not as thorough a seal.. which means you rebuild them every 2 years, instead of every 4. i rock those on my rando rig, and i've trued them twice in 4000 miles.

105 only gets a bad rep from the guys who want to climb some imaginary food chain-- but 105 and rival are every bit as solid in pretty much every regard as ultegra or red- just with lesser finishes, and the additional steel in them makes 'em marginally heavier. the z85's nothing to sneeze at, really-- and if you put some light wheels on the critter? sheeit..
you'll notice a HUGE difference with decent wheels in ride quality and pickup- just make sure they use butted spokes to keep 'em light, and you'd be golden.

i got vittoria rubino slicks with my fulcrum wheels. i tore out the sidewall in the first 3 weeks. freakin' POS 23's. they rolled fast, but i hit a chunk of 57 stone and shredded the damn thing right through the sidewall, right through the tube- and it left a hole the size of my forefinger. that's pretty pathetic. replaced immediately with gp4000s, and haven't looked back.

[newholland]

Originally Posted by Weathered

Ain't that the truth...

I am thinking that this summer, I'm going to invest in new wheels for the Z. Thinking I'll just have my local bike shop build up some basic wheels using Ultegra hubs and Mavic Open Pros - shouldn't be high buck, but it'll be better than the stock Felt wheels. I already moved to Michelin Pro4 tires, which were a huge upgrade from the Vittoria tires that shipped on the frame.

hell yes, good thinking. if you wanna save even MORE scratch, go with 105's. functionally identical, just not as thorough a seal.. which means you rebuild them every 2 years, instead of every 4. i rock those on my rando rig, and i've trued them twice in 4000 miles.

105 only gets a bad rep from the guys who want to climb some imaginary food chain-- but 105 and rival are every bit as solid in pretty much every regard as ultegra or red- just with lesser finishes, and the additional steel in them makes 'em marginally heavier. the z85's nothing to sneeze at, really-- and if you put some light wheels on the critter? sheeit..
you'll notice a HUGE difference with decent wheels in ride quality and pickup- just make sure they use butted spokes to keep 'em light, and you'd be golden.

i got vittoria rubino slicks with my fulcrum wheels. i tore out the sidewall in the first 3 weeks. freakin' POS 23's. they rolled fast, but i hit a chunk of 57 stone and shredded the damn thing right through the sidewall, right through the tube- and it left a hole the size of my forefinger. that's pretty pathetic. replaced immediately with gp4000s, and haven't looked back.

[Jack Tone]

Originally Posted by Weathered

The Z is a really nice series - it's still fast, but it's relaxed enough that it doesn't feel like you're trying to win the Tour De France. Despite being aluminum, it's reasonably compliant. Having ridden stiffer frames, it doesn't seem to transfer all of your pedal stroke to the wheels, but it's certainly not slow. Personally, as someone who likes riding 25+ miles per ride and isn't a professional, the geometry is about perfect for me.

What's the guy looking for in terms of geometry? I personally wouldn't be able to buy any bike without riding it first to know whether the geometry works for me. Even with the spects available, there are details that can make or break a frame for my preference.



Nice! Which series frame is that? The Orca is on my radar as well, and being that my company sponsors a pro cycling team that rides Orbea, I actually would have a chance to pick up a Gold with upgrades for cheap during our charity auction - I think the fully built up Gold with SRAM Red went for $3,500 last year.

I remember years ago all the debates about stiff vs flexy frames. I prefer stiff frames myself ( have 3 Cannondales), but I doubt if it really makes any difference, at least for power transfer. I can't remember the brand of frames the Look team used, the all aluminum, glued together models that were slightly stiffer than al dente spaghetti. They seemed to do pretty well on them.

The pedal energy has to go somewhere. Since it's not turned into heat or light, it goes to the wheels. Perhaps just a milisecond slower on a flex frame after it "springs" back from the pedal stroke. I suppose the stiffer frames are better handling since the wheels stay in alignment better? But that's even debatable. Honda even relaxed the lateral stiffness of their road-racing motorcycle frames to improve traction when leaned over to allow the frame to absorb bumps since the suspension couldn't when radically leaned over.

[Jack Tone]

Originally Posted by Weathered

The Z is a really nice series - it's still fast, but it's relaxed enough that it doesn't feel like you're trying to win the Tour De France. Despite being aluminum, it's reasonably compliant. Having ridden stiffer frames, it doesn't seem to transfer all of your pedal stroke to the wheels, but it's certainly not slow. Personally, as someone who likes riding 25+ miles per ride and isn't a professional, the geometry is about perfect for me.

What's the guy looking for in terms of geometry? I personally wouldn't be able to buy any bike without riding it first to know whether the geometry works for me. Even with the spects available, there are details that can make or break a frame for my preference.



Nice! Which series frame is that? The Orca is on my radar as well, and being that my company sponsors a pro cycling team that rides Orbea, I actually would have a chance to pick up a Gold with upgrades for cheap during our charity auction - I think the fully built up Gold with SRAM Red went for $3,500 last year.

I remember years ago all the debates about stiff vs flexy frames. I prefer stiff frames myself ( have 3 Cannondales), but I doubt if it really makes any difference, at least for power transfer. I can't remember the brand of frames the Look team used, the all aluminum, glued together models that were slightly stiffer than al dente spaghetti. They seemed to do pretty well on them.

The pedal energy has to go somewhere. Since it's not turned into heat or light, it goes to the wheels. Perhaps just a milisecond slower on a flex frame after it "springs" back from the pedal stroke. I suppose the stiffer frames are better handling since the wheels stay in alignment better? But that's even debatable. Honda even relaxed the lateral stiffness of their road-racing motorcycle frames to improve traction when leaned over to allow the frame to absorb bumps since the suspension couldn't when radically leaned over.

[newholland]

Originally Posted by Jack Tone

I remember years ago all the debates about stiff vs flexy frames. I prefer stiff frames myself ( have 3 Cannondales), but I doubt if it really makes any difference, at least for power transfer. I can't remember the brand of frames the Look team used, the all aluminum, glued together models that were slightly stiffer than al dente spaghetti. They seemed to do pretty well on them.

The pedal energy has to go somewhere. Since it's not turned into heat or light, it goes to the wheels. Perhaps just a milisecond slower on a flex frame after it "springs" back from the pedal stroke. I suppose the stiffer frames are better handling since the wheels stay in alignment better? But that's even debatable. Honda even relaxed the lateral stiffness of their road-racing motorcycle frames to improve traction when leaned over to allow the frame to absorb bumps since the suspension couldn't when radically leaned over.

yep. all that.

I raced my junior years on a vitus 979. most comfortable road bike i've ever been on. sean kelley won a lot of races on them, as did stephen roche. i, however, did not. clearly, it was inferior...

regardless of that hard truth... i ride a 'dale now, and it took some getting used to. i definitely prefer frames that flex a bit.. they just wear me out less in long days- and i ride steel for shitty roads and long ass rides. i don't feel they're faster or slower, truly. but i'm certainly not a sprinter.. i've determined that basically, it's all what you want to believe. you can kick ass on anything if you want to- it's all what yer used to. i'da never in a million years 25 years ago pictured myself on a cannondale. but i love mine now.. that said.. it ain't a 1986 cannondale but i wouldn't necessarily choose it to ride battenkill on, either.

[newholland]

Originally Posted by Jack Tone

I remember years ago all the debates about stiff vs flexy frames. I prefer stiff frames myself ( have 3 Cannondales), but I doubt if it really makes any difference, at least for power transfer. I can't remember the brand of frames the Look team used, the all aluminum, glued together models that were slightly stiffer than al dente spaghetti. They seemed to do pretty well on them.

The pedal energy has to go somewhere. Since it's not turned into heat or light, it goes to the wheels. Perhaps just a milisecond slower on a flex frame after it "springs" back from the pedal stroke. I suppose the stiffer frames are better handling since the wheels stay in alignment better? But that's even debatable. Honda even relaxed the lateral stiffness of their road-racing motorcycle frames to improve traction when leaned over to allow the frame to absorb bumps since the suspension couldn't when radically leaned over.

yep. all that.

I raced my junior years on a vitus 979. most comfortable road bike i've ever been on. sean kelley won a lot of races on them, as did stephen roche. i, however, did not. clearly, it was inferior...

regardless of that hard truth... i ride a 'dale now, and it took some getting used to. i definitely prefer frames that flex a bit.. they just wear me out less in long days- and i ride steel for shitty roads and long ass rides. i don't feel they're faster or slower, truly. but i'm certainly not a sprinter.. i've determined that basically, it's all what you want to believe. you can kick ass on anything if you want to- it's all what yer used to. i'da never in a million years 25 years ago pictured myself on a cannondale. but i love mine now.. that said.. it ain't a 1986 cannondale but i wouldn't necessarily choose it to ride battenkill on, either.

[rufus21]

What's the guy looking for in terms of geometry? I personally wouldn't be able to buy any bike without riding it first to know whether the geometry works for me. Even with the spects available, there are details that can make or break a frame for my preference.

Exactly, which is why I think looking at the Felt locally would be better for him; he'd be able to throw a leg over it before buying to see if it was the right fit for him.

[rufus21]

What's the guy looking for in terms of geometry? I personally wouldn't be able to buy any bike without riding it first to know whether the geometry works for me. Even with the spects available, there are details that can make or break a frame for my preference.

Exactly, which is why I think looking at the Felt locally would be better for him; he'd be able to throw a leg over it before buying to see if it was the right fit for him.

[Zozobra]

Its arrived. Put it together as soon as I got home from work
Its really damn good. Every bit as fun to ride as my CAAD8. I went out for a quick installation ride and it was running real smooth and quiet so this quickly turned into a 20km blast. Amazingly I was setting an average of 2:20 min/km over the route which is slightly faster than what I'd been doing on my CAAD8! I wasn't clipped in either as I really don't like straps. I may well take the clipless pedals off my CAAD8 to see what I can do then. I'd certainly need it to take on any hills as the ratio is a bit higher to what I'd normally use (46/17). Overall impressed and its punched way above what I've paid for it.

Ideally I'd like an inexpensive clipless pedal that also has a platform so I can ride with regular shoes as I don't need to be clipped in to ride to work and the roads are quite busy so I'd prefer to be able to jump off the bike quickly if some tits decides they've forgotten how to drive. I'd only really be clipping in for fun rides. Any suggestions?