Acoustic Guitars

[Neal]

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poppytater wrote:

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acousticdepot wrote:

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poppytater wrote:

I think what's between the ears plays just as big a role as the receivers themselves.

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What does this mean?

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Preconceived notions of price and quality.

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I took it the other way.  A recent thread about a fella wanting to rid himself of an Epi Masterbilt is a great example.

Sometimes the cowboy chord kids and newbies do exactly what Poppy says, you have preconceived notions of quality, yet lack the experience to really AUDITION a guitar for that price and quality.   Heck, a Masterbilt is really a nice guitar, forget about the price.  Is it less than an eighth the quality of a 15K Linda Manzer guitar?  Not to you it ain't.  Is it something you can love for years?  Yep.

For those making their living at it, or have the understanding/experience to really audition a guitar, the differences become noticeable.  2-10K noticeable?  Well...... you got the money, feel it's a good investment in your playing, your professional career, your personal satisfaction, then yeah, I guess so.

[EdBega]

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poppytater wrote:

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Preconceived notions of price and quality.

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I've sure been guilty of that with other products. In a lot of cases people think it's better just cause it's so expensive and well thought of by others. Good for the economy I guess ... 

[katopp]

Best guitars from a price/sound perspective are my custom built ones, because they sound, behave and look exactly like I wanted them to.

But that's not for everyone, I know...

I am in the favourable position to own some original guitars and some rip-offs of the same design, too. There ARE differences in the sound and playability between more expensive and cheaper instruments. You feel it, you see it (less and les, I have to admit) and you hear it.

BUT - and that's a big but... But not always. When I play on my own, I feel and hear the difference between my Martin D35, my Martin D40, my Sigma DRC28E and my FG730S Yammie. When I start to sing, too, those differences are drowned out a lot and when I get to the pub and play in a jam session, the differences between the 4 are neglible. The Yammie only being preferred because I don't have to fear some drunk punking into the soundhole or some long-fingered thief nicking it away from me.

So, yes, there are differences, but how much those differences matter to you is depending on where and how you use it...

[rainrainwash3]

I'm more of a guy who sticks to at most two guitars at a time.  My main and a similar backup in case something happens to the main.  Personally, I can tell a huge difference between a cheap guitar and a more expensive one.  It's mainly in the build quality and the materials used.  I'd rather have one $3000+ stellar guitar than several less than great ones.

I think how much your willing to spend on a guitar depends on what you intend to do with it.  Are you a professional, touring musician?  Then you SHOULD be investing heavily in your choice of instruments!  If you are a hobbyist, then a middle of the road guitar that's enough to please you personally will be enough.  It's true it's mostly in the hands and head of the player, but having a quality instrument just makes the expression more smooth.

[poppytater]

Made a trip to the guitar shop yesterday , played some alphabet Martins , as well as a  d-28 and some Gibsons and two Yamahas, None were awful , none were great. Sound wise, price made no difference.

[EdBega]

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poppytater wrote:

Made a trip to the guitar shop yesterday , played some alphabet Martins , as well as a  d-28 and some Gibsons and two Yamahas, None were awful , none were great. Sound wise, price made no difference.

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Wonder how much strings play a part in all that, they could be dead or maybe you don't like Martin strings. 

[Opa John]

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poppytater wrote:

Made a trip to the guitar shop yesterday , played some alphabet Martins , as well as a  d-28 and some Gibsons and two Yamahas, None were awful , none were great. Sound wise, price made no difference.

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Poppy, maybe there's something wrong with your hearing.

I said, Poppy! Maybe there's something wrong with your hearing!!

[poppytater]

Nah, I can hear the grass grow

[coogar]

Im with Poppy on this as also ive made the odd trip to guitar stores and tried out some different makes of guitar ..and one which i liked best for the money was priced at £500 and was a Guild gad Chinese made guitar which sounded nice to myself and sounded better i thought than the much more expensive guitars i tried out although possibly the strings to blame for such ? or maybe my hearing to blame but i dont think so as wife was with me listening and thought the same .

[OldTwelver]

Much of what has been said has some truth to it.

There are other issues that may affect the way a player judges a particular guitar or price range. In reality, hands are like fingerprints. No two are the same. In your hands, a given guitar may sound great, and in my hands, not as much so. Also, most decent (whatever that means) players will adjust their style automatically to get the best out of the guitar that is in their lap at the time. But, you may have to work harder at it, or not be totally comfortable doing so. For the casual player that may be okay, but for someone on stage three nights a week, it may be exhausting. When auditioning a guitar, most people seem to play their best licks (don't want to look silly in the store), but I always include those which give me trouble, to see if they go better or worse on the audition guitar.

Having said all that, there are some surprising gems in the lower end of the price range, more than there were 20-30 years ago. But if the sound/playability I was looking for many years ago, cost me 3k+ (equivilent) , then I'm okay with that too. Life is too short to play a guitar that sucks.

Biggest difference for me these days is that a guitar that lasts forty years isn't a huge requirement on my checklist anymore. I will never understand buying a guitar you haven't had in your hands first, but I guess I'm just set in my ways.

Paul

[TESmith]

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garthman wrote:

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poppytater wrote:

 Be honest, is there one?  I'm not talking about build quality, sound only. I haven't played any high end boutique stuff, I have played quite a few top end Martins and Gibsons , lot of others in the $300 to $ 5,000 range. I can honestly say that , for me, price is not an indicator of sound quality, The 5 best sounding guitars I 've played are(in no particular order) are-Guild D-55, Fender Elvis Presley Kingman, a very old Martin D-35,Epiphone Masterbilt AJ-500R and a blue Yamaha(model ??). What's your take?

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I completely agree with you, Pops. My two best sounding (to me of course {wink thingy}) are my Crafter dreadnought and my Recording King 000.

I bought the Crafter about 6 years ago and I played lots and lots and lots of guitars - several of which were "high end" - before choosing and for me it was the Crafter that rang the bells. I have to say that the RK is pretty **bleep** good too.

PS. The **bleep** was the word "damn" - if HCAG is getting this f*cking silly I might as well stay over in AGF.

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I would think the higher end guitars would have advantages, However, I am starting to question this more and more.My own experiences paralells Howard's  I playe d many guitars several years ago, Martins, Taylors, Gibsons, Seagull, and more. I found the guitar that stood out was an inexpensive, lower end Crafter ( GA-7  N) Not near top of their line, but it was a superb sounding guitar. Players far more experienced than myself commented on the rich well rounded sounds that came from that guitar. I have played and owned guitars in many price ranges. I still think certain guitars just come together the right way and have it......go to any music store where they have more than one of a specific model guitar and play several of the identical guitars back to back. Very often there are big differences in the sounds.

Someone else must have liked the Crafter as well, because it was stolen from me, still pisses me off!

I have come to think anymore price does not equate better, sound, carefull shopping and you can find good ones at all prices!

[american sinner]

Just think of it in terms of diminishing returns. 

You get diminishing returns nowadays around $1000. You also tend to have better quality control at higher ranges, but if you know what you are doing, you can compensate for that with an in person diagnosis.

What confuses some olde timers, some my friends even... mixed up with brand loyalty and failure to recognize the advances in computer aided quality control and production....is that it used to be around $2000. 

The objective factors are ---you can get high quality wood, proper intonation, stable tuners, and good fretwork pretty easily in the $500 range, even solid topped. 

There is a lot of cumulative if subtle effect via type and cut wood, bracing, & finish, but you are really into subjective areas at that point. 

I personally find anything with a thick finish sounds awful, but that is subjective. Some people, with good ears and artistic vision, like them just fine. 

[billybilly]

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carguy wrote:

I've often made the same argument. Take a Hummingbird for example. A Gibson Hummingbird costs a little over $3,000 and an Epiphone Hummingbird costs $300. Is there $2,500 better tone in the Gibson? I don't think there is. Most people, myself included, could not tell the difference in sound between the two.

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I could, quite easily.

I believe there is a big jump in tone from $500 to $1500, after that, not so much.  Sub $500 guitars are pretty good these days but if you spend another grand, you'll be getting a far superior instrument, IMO.

[jamesp]

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poppytater wrote:

 Be honest, is there one?  I'm not talking about build quality, sound only. I haven't played any high end boutique stuff, I have played quite a few top end Martins and Gibsons , lot of others in the $300 to $ 5,000 range. I can honestly say that , for me, price is not an indicator of sound quality, The 5 best sounding guitars I 've played are(in no particular order) are-Guild D-55, Fender Elvis Presley Kingman, a very old Martin D-35,Epiphone Masterbilt AJ-500R and a blue Yamaha(model ??) What's your take?

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That some people don't hear very well.  

But seriously, Pops, play a few Collings and see if that doesn't recalibrate your notions..  

[EdBega]

Oops wrong thread ..