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Community Manager
Anderton
Posts: 21,256
Registered: ‎05-15-2002

Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

I'll try to add some more photos tomorrow, but this was a big deal. Basically, it's a complete, turnkey studio based around Sonar 8.0, along with a hardware controller, audio interface, and Roland Fantom synth engine (built in the interface). As they are not exactly unknown quantities, it might not seem that impressive at first until you scratch beneath the surface.

The interface has tons of I/O, but what impresses me is that the mic preamps sound really good. Also, they have digitally-controlled gain, and you can control this directly from the console and store gain settings as a preamp. So you can have different presets for different miking situations.

Having the Roland synth built into the interface may seem gratuitous, but it's a zero-latency hardware synth with a bunch of excellent-sounding presets. It's very convenient to have a high-end synth that's ready to go as soon as you turn things on, and doesn't load down your CPU. But you can also add an ARX synth expansion board which isn't like a new ROM set, but another synth engine--more polyphony, more sounds, etc.

The controller has nine motorized faders, but to me, the star of that show are the 12 rotary encoders that tweak EQ or perhaps more importantly, control synth and signal processors via Cakewalk's ACT protocol. The choice of controls and buttons makes it easy to navigate through Sonar, especially the jog/shuttle wheel--great stuff. What Cakewalk didn't emphasize was that the controller is also Mackie-compatible, so if you use programs other than Sonar, odds are you'll be able to use the controller with it.

I was lucky enough to have a pre-production prototype controller to work with for an EQ feature article on controllers, and it really is a game-changer for Sonar...serious workflow mojo, thanks to well-executed hands-on control. The three images show various views from the Cakewalk press conference in the morning of the show.
There are now eight music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including a cover of "We Gotta Get Out of This Place," which joins "Little Pieces", "Black Market Daydreams," and "When the Grid Goes Down" (complete with disturbing video )
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Occasional Contributor
jmarkham
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Registered: ‎10-06-2008

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

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Super Contributor
Posts: 1,002
Registered: ‎05-03-2002

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

This new interface looks like a winner for Sonar users (like myself).

Problem for many of us is the $4,000 price tag I've seen posted with it.

Too bad there isn't a "lite" version.
4 Gs is out of the question, unfortunately.
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Community Manager
Anderton
Posts: 21,256
Registered: ‎05-15-2002

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

I know what you mean, but if you break the costs down, it's not as bad. The full package has not only the control surface (which definitely rocks), but also Sonar 8, the full version of Rapture (the non-V-Studio Sonar 8 only has the LE version), a really good interface--the eight mic pres sound excellent--and a Roland Fantom synth.
There are now eight music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including a cover of "We Gotta Get Out of This Place," which joins "Little Pieces", "Black Market Daydreams," and "When the Grid Goes Down" (complete with disturbing video )
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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 112
Registered: ‎06-26-2007

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

That price tag is a real turn off. I was hoping for something more affordable. For the price they are posting, I can get into a used Oasys and get more bang for the buck IMHO. I am also a Sonar user and really like it alot but i just can't see the value in this yet considering the hefty price tag. As an example; I could get a Fantom X with 4 SRX cards and Sonar 8 for less and be better off, again IMO.
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MikeRivers
Posts: 4,978
Registered: ‎12-18-2005

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

One of the things that I noticed at this AES show is that there seemed to be more exhibitors who weren't afraid to show cool but rather more pricey products than those which the MI playing field has become accustomed. It will be interesting to see if this trend continues at the NAMM show or whether we'll see more cheaper products there.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006
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Community Manager
Anderton
Posts: 21,256
Registered: ‎05-15-2002

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

Good point. I've worked with a prototype of the V-Studio controller, and it speeds things up enough that I estimate within less than a year, it will have paid for itself given how many projects I do with Sonar. I'll definitely be buying the controller as soon as it appears...I'm sure it will last more than a year, so past a certain point, it will start making money for me.
There are now eight music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including a cover of "We Gotta Get Out of This Place," which joins "Little Pieces", "Black Market Daydreams," and "When the Grid Goes Down" (complete with disturbing video )
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Super Contributor
Posts: 28,614
Registered: ‎07-15-2005

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

That price tag is a real turn off. I was hoping for something more affordable. For the price they are posting, I can get into a used Oasys and get more bang for the buck IMHO. I am also a Sonar user and really like it alot but i just can't see the value in this yet considering the hefty price tag. As an example; I could get a Fantom X with 4 SRX cards and Sonar 8 for less and be better off, again IMO.
If all you cared about is the built in synth I'd have to agree with you, but from what I've heard, the converters and mic pre's are fairly high end and there are people who care about that and not the synth. I think eventually Roland will probably sell the separate components individually, but as a Sonar user I'm contemplating the whole package as a future upgrade. Someone on GS stated they heard the converters were the same chips that Apogee uses, if that's the case and the mic pre's match that quality I can easily see how all 3 components go for 4G's.
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MikeRivers
Posts: 4,978
Registered: ‎12-18-2005

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

If all you cared about is the built in synth I'd have to agree with you, but from what I've heard, the converters and mic pre's are fairly high end and there are people who care about that and not the synth.

There are plenty of high grade mic preamps and converters out there, too, but what this gadget offers is a fully integrated system, including a hardware control surface. This means that instead of buying several pieces from different manufacturer and then have to make them work together, to the computer, it looks like just one piece of hardware and one piece of software that were designed to work together.

What you give up is the flexibility to make your own choices of input and output gear, control surface, and synthesizer (and DAW program, for that matter). The control surface will probably work with other DAW programs, and you can always add outboard preamps and converters, but they you're buying twice. But there's still an upgrade path.

Some like the idea of a turnkey system. Others will save half the bucks or throw in a really fine piece of hardware and take as much time as is necessary doing their own system engineering.

The V-Studio reminded me a bit of the TASCAM SX-1, and integrated audio and MIDI system built around a console. I don't think the world was ready for it when it came out (or maybe wasn't wealthy enough) so it didn't stay around very long, but apparently the few who bought into it found it to be a very productive system. The fact that it ran under BeOS, which also didn't stay around very long, probably kept a lot of skeptics away. Jeff was around TASCAM at that time. Maybe he has some good, or some really bad memories.

Someone on GS stated they heard the converters were the same chips that Apogee uses, if that's the case and the mic pre's match that quality I can easily see how all 3 components go for 4G's.

Lots of converters use the same chips as Apogee. That's just a small part of making a good converter-the-box. But Roland has always done digital pretty well, going back to their early samplers, so the converters are probably good enough so that they aren't going to stand in the way of making good recordings. They've been learning about mic preamps for a while and probably have them down pretty competently now.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006
Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then
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Community Manager
Anderton
Posts: 21,256
Registered: ‎05-15-2002

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

There are plenty of high grade mic preamps and converters out there, too, but what this gadget offers is a fully integrated system, including a hardware control surface. This means that instead of buying several pieces from different manufacturer and then have to make them work together, to the computer, it looks like just one piece of hardware and one piece of software that were designed to work together.


True, and it also lets them get away with things like being able to adjust mic preamp gains from the control surface itself, and save gain presets for different recording scenarios.

The control surface will probably work with other DAW programs...


It can do Mackie control, I've used it with Ableton Live and some other programs. If it didn't do Mackie control, that would have been a deal-breaker as I don't want two control surfaces on my desktop.

Lots of converters use the same chips as Apogee. That's just a small part of making a good converter-the-box.


Bingo! Spread the gospel, brother. Chips are pretty similar these days, but the "glue" varies considerably.

But Roland has always done digital pretty well, going back to their early samplers, so the converters are probably good enough so that they aren't going to stand in the way of making good recordings. They've been learning about mic preamps for a while and probably have them down pretty competently now.


Well I don't get excited about mic pres, but I will say these are very clean and "sweet" - no brittleness. They're better than most of the mic pres I have, and there are eight of them, so it would be a step up for my studio.
There are now eight music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including a cover of "We Gotta Get Out of This Place," which joins "Little Pieces", "Black Market Daydreams," and "When the Grid Goes Down" (complete with disturbing video )
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Contributor
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎07-25-2005

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

Craig, I've been trying to find out whether the integrated Fantom can sample or not...can you give us a clue?
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Community Manager
Anderton
Posts: 21,256
Registered: ‎05-15-2002

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

As far as I know it's playback only, but you can add ARX expansion cards for more sounds.
There are now eight music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including a cover of "We Gotta Get Out of This Place," which joins "Little Pieces", "Black Market Daydreams," and "When the Grid Goes Down" (complete with disturbing video )
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Contributor
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎07-25-2005

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

As far as I know it's playback only, but you can add ARX expansion cards for more sounds.


LOL, yes, as long as I need Electric Pianos or more drums...thanks for your fast reply, anyway, Craig :thu:
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Super Contributor
MikeRivers
Posts: 4,978
Registered: ‎12-18-2005

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

I searched through your review for the meaning of ACT and didn't find it. I dug through the press release and found that it stands for Active Control Technology but I still don't know what that means. Isn't the purpose of every control (except for the WARM knob that you turn when the artist says "Can't you make that sound a little warmer?") to be active?

Is this something that every Cakewalk user knows and I'm just out of the loop?

{A}
{C}ontrived
{R}eduction
{O}f
{N}omenclature
{Y}ielding
{M}nemonics


--
"Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006
Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then
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Newbie
Mase
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎10-18-2008

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

How do you get music out of sonar v-studio 700 on to CD?
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Community Manager
Anderton
Posts: 21,256
Registered: ‎05-15-2002

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

Use the Make CD option.
There are now eight music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including a cover of "We Gotta Get Out of This Place," which joins "Little Pieces", "Black Market Daydreams," and "When the Grid Goes Down" (complete with disturbing video )
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Super Contributor
Posts: 7,004
Registered: ‎09-30-2003

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

Thanks, this seems like a cool device...I wish it worked with pro tools.
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Super Contributor
Posts: 28,614
Registered: ‎07-15-2005

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

...I wish it worked with pro tools.
You should be able to use it as I'm pretty sure PT supports the standard Mackie HUI mode.
"If Obama wins a second term I will leave the forum". - Visconti
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Occasional Contributor
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎10-26-2008

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

I read there is compression on the inputs ,but for the price of this thing it should have included DSP processing similar to or better than the Steinberg MR816 CSX or even TC Studio konnekt 48. You're going to tell me with all that "power" of the included fantom, they couldn't allocate some for DSP??? I also feel that the ARX is going to the way of the dinosaur. Some will read this and say "oh thats why there is native processing for effects and plugs" true, but what about all the latency and buffer issues? Who wants to program a computer when one is creating music? I truly believe for that price they should of put some UAD/Powercore type of capability in the box.
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Occasional Contributor
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎11-03-2008

Re: Cakewalk/Roland V-Studio

Craig, any idea if Cakewalk has any plans of releasing the components separately at some point? I have amassed quite a few mic pre's and outboard synths that I have little use for the I/O part of this system. I do LOVE the custom control surface that Pro Tools users have enjoyed for years. I have used the Mackie but found it not quite what I wanted. I have been waiting for a product like this forever and really hope to get the control surface on its own! I have been using Sonar since 2.0 and just found it suited my workflow the best.
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