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Originally posted by blargh The people in uniforms are NOT defending me, they're off on some vague imperialist mission that does not benefit me in the slightest. Get back to me when the military is actually doing something worth any respect. Dude.......you are a complete douche for writing that. I'm actually embarassed for you.

Originally posted by potaetoes that's just it though. you're fighting for americans, not a flag, not a symbol. you're fighting for what the flag represents, not the actual flag. the flag represents liberty gained by revolution against oppressive government. if our government outlawed our right to invoke its very meaning by burning it in protest, it would no longer have that meaning at all. it would then simply be a new symbol of oppression. is that what you fought for? Re-read your statement.....it really makes no sense.....'you are fighting for americans, not a symbol'.....very next sentence....'the flag represents liberty gained by revolution against oppressive government'....Question - If the flag 'represents' something, wouldn't that make it a symbol? Now go sit on your avatar!

Originally posted by Lgehrig4 Amen! Between this and the "gun carrying" thread I think I found a new friend! Keep it up Amen to both of you upstanding young men!!! I've got a couple of kindred spirits in here!

Originally posted by tommythelurker No. You're the one making the argument, it's your job to support it. An analogy is meant to illustrate a point, not to be the fundamental basis for the argument. You have yet to state plain and simple why gay marriage is wrong, or even put forth any sort of basis for the discussion. This is why nobody can "shoot down" anything. You haven't put anything up there and therefore the "analogy" is completely meaningless. I can't very well claim that "the moon is made of cheese because Robin Williams wore yellow in 'Mork and Mindy', I'm right unless you prove me wrong" and expect that to fly. Whatever. It's a subjective judgement that hasn't been setup with any sort of basis or connection for this discussion. Ah, the "slippery slope" argument That's not a logical argument against gay marriage (or anything for that matter), that's fear mongering. You don't even know what the "next step" is, but you seem to insinuate that it's bad. Well, like I said, I don't know what you're point was. That's right, they just might help in someway that's beyond you. I'm glad you admitted that. Your argument up to that point proclaimed that you knew for absolute fact what was best for mankind which is pretty arrogant and even absurd. Your arguing style is unique. You make untrue statements like "Your argument up to that point proclaimed that you knew for absolute fact what was best for mankind" and then make judgements based on the untruths. What I find interesting is how you have totally sidestepped the analogy by just saying 'it's wrong', and then provide no thoughtful counter points to it. Someone along the way provided some counter points, but I don't believe it was you. I put the analogy out there for discussion. If you can't refute it, then too bad. The 'slippery slope' is wrong?? Thanks for letting me in on that little nugget of wisdom. I'm taking my ball and going home this time for real OK...maybe I'll take a peek in a little while to see what's going on..... I love you guys... ..all of you......even though I don't know any of you;)

Originally posted by rememberduane Medal of Honor. Go home. OK. I'll go home.....nice zinger:thu: I'm taking my ball with me:wave:

Originally posted by vegas_jay Bill Frist (R - Tenn) : "Countless men and women have died defending that flag. It is but a small humble act for us to defend it." Daniel Inouye (D - Hawaii) : "While I take offense at disrespect to the flag, I nonetheless believe it is my continued duty as a veteran, as an American citizen, and as a United States senator to defend the constitutional right of protesters to use the flag in nonviolent speech." Can you guess which of these two men is a veteran, who lost his right arm while serving in combat, and is a winner of the Medal of Honor? Hint: It's not Frist. Can you guess which one won the spin battle? Can you guess which one is a Medical Doctor? Can you guess which one is in a Red State? Can you guess which one is in a Blue State? Can you guess which one got his arm blown off and then turned into John Kerry, Max Cleland, Jonathan Squankmire etc...? Bob Dole, John McCain, Lonny McGillicutty etc.... We can name names on both sides of the aisle who are veterans:wave:

Originally posted by tommythelurker Ugh, it's not your choice of animal that's the problem. There's no connection being established between homosexuality and beastiality. They're two different things and you haven't presented anything that connects the two. I have presented the question. No one has presented anything of substance that rebuts the analogy. If you believe the two items are not connected, tell me why? Originally posted by tommythelurker Are you still trying to be logical? Because that's an opinion stated as if it were fact which doesn't not follow any sort of logic. The 'if it feels good' crowd hasn't faired so well in the past. If you need a history lesson I suggest you read a book. Originally posted by tommythelurker quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Everyone always says 'if two men love each other, they should be able to marry' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- not everyone... OK. I concede that not 'everyone' says this....but a very vocal minority do say it. Originally posted by tommythelurker It's a different kind of "love". I've never heard of anyone wanting to marry a dog. I'm sure someone has tried it, even though you 'haven't heard of it'. The points that 'pro gay marriage folk' use to support their argument are the same ones that will be used to justify the next step (whatever that might be). Originally posted by tommythelurker Not sure what point you're trying to make here but I believe in some states it's legal to marry at age 16 (I know thats the age of consent in some states, even lower in some). I'm not sure what the state by state age requirements are for marriage, but that wasn't the point. Originally posted by tommythelurker The "rules and social norms" are what society makes them and this is what is up for debate. You can't use the issue itself to argue the issue. how do you know gay marriage isn't helping the survival of the species? Did you create us? I'm not even going to dignify the 'did you create us' question with a response. One thing is certain. Homosexuals do not procreate. I believe by defintion that probably wouldn't ensure the survival of the species. It is an interesting question though, they might help in some other instance, but it is beyond me

Originally posted by potaetoes oh come on now... that's not even a half-assed try. dogs are spayed and neutered without their consent, and in many places, they are also made into dinner. they're led around on leashes and choke chains, kept in kennels, and euthanized by the thousands every day. they are typically banned from so much as walking around in public unattended. so, would you agree that dogs, like cows, are not to be held to the same standards as people? I'm not sure what your point is?? Humans are held to higher standards than dogs? On that we can agree Once again no one has shot down the argument.

Originally posted by Darkburst Since you love animals and sex so much... I do love animals and I do love sex.....just not together....unless of course scrappy is sitting at the bottom of the bed when Mommy and Daddy are gettin' busy! Your question about animals and their behavior is easy to answer......They are 'ANIMALS'. We are 'HUMANS'. Humans don't act on every whim they have. Humans understand that doing everything that comes into our minds is counter productive, therefore we exercise restraint. Animals have a harder time grasping this concept.

Originally posted by grumphh First cows, now dogs? Quite the wild one, aren't you? C'mon now.....everyone has had some little dog come up and try and bust a nut on your leg??

OH MY:D I'm sure there is a little quote in my last post that could could come back to haunt me..... I feel like Lloyd Christmas in Dumb and Dumber when he tells Mary 'I desperately want to make love to a schoolboy'

Originally posted by potaetoes is it ok to castrate and brand a person, or barbecue up a hunk of human prime rib? or, would you agree that cows and people are not to be held to the same standards? you can't have it both ways. OK....if there is a problem with the use of cows in the analogy let's use dog's? We don't eat them and barbeque them up....and I'm sure you would agree a dog has feelings?? I have personally experienced a dog trying to hump my leg....so now let's say a dog wants to copulate with a human.....now why is that 'unnatural and gross'? If it feels good, and both the dog and human are enjoying it?? It's the whole 'If it feels good do it' mentality that ruins societies. Everyone always says 'if two men love each other, they should be able to marry'.....I would say a dog could love a human and vice versa, so why not let humans marry dogs?? or is that past the limit? With the 'if they love each other' mentality then that means that eventually grown men will be marrying boys under 18....I believe that it is possible for a grown man to love a 16 year old and vice versa? So the next post will be that at age 16 people cannot make that decision (they are not mature or smart enough)....now you take that to a level where you are making intelligence a requirement (and my goodness, that's not fair) The point is just because 'it feels good' doesn't mean you should do it. There are rules and societal norms that are in place to ensure the survival of the species and men marrying men isn't helping.

Originally posted by tommythelurker I guess I should correct myself. Your logic is non-existant. You sound like you're speaking from experience... I personally have no idea what a cow sounds like in ecstasy vs. anything else or what it would do (or not do) if it didn't like what someone was doing to it. As far as I know, they just stand around going moo without much awareness of what's going on around them. Maybe you have a better raport with cows.... I have no rapport with cows, but I have castrated them and branded them etc.... Rather than just saying my logic is 'non-existant' could you please expand on that and perhaps provide a valid argument?? Or are we just going to call each other names and post witty zingers??

Originally posted by blargh Uh, you have no logic, you have an irrelevant analogy that compares sex with an unthinking animal to sex with an adult human. Your logic doesn't need to be shot down, it ran off the runway during takeoff and exploded in a ditch. 'unthinking animal' ? 'unthinking animal' ? I beg to differ. When you cut the bottom third of a cows nutsack off and pull out his dingle berries I believe he's thinking pretty hard about how bad that hurts......same goes for branding.....they don't like that either..... OK ! So maybe my analogy isn't rock solid:thu: In truth though it's pretty hard to shoot down....I know mine 'ran off the runway etc. etc.'

Originally posted by tommythelurker "humping"?? What are you, 12? Your logic is seriously flawed. I'm not trying to argue that it is OK, but I have yet to see a logical argument for why it isn't. What it comes down to is personal opinion and belief, not logic. I am 35. Thank you for inquiring. Show me where my logic is flawed. Obviously a cow cannot consent the same way a human can, but if it doesn't run away and let's you do whatever and moo's and moan's in ecstasy, then that my friend, is a Consenting Cow:thu: Originally posted by blargh That doesn't imply consent, because a cow does not have the mental capacity to consent. Would it be ok to have sex with Terri Schiavo if she doesn't react?" The difference between Terri Schiavo and a cow.....a cow can run away or kick you....Terri could not. So far no one has posted anything that has shot down the logic of my repugnant analogy.