fantasticsound

Originally posted by Jotown For starters Steve Earl, Willie Nelson and Neil Young haven't gotten played on country music stations (or any stations for that matter) for a long time. Steve Earl has always been outside of the mainstream, Willie Nelson hasn't had a contemporary hit in years and Neil Young isn't even country... Talk about getting your facts wrong! Willie had a big hit with Beer For My Horses with Toby Keith. For a goofy song, I only wish it was someone other than Toby Keith. Forget his politics. I've been around the man enough to know he has a huge chip on his shoulder I'd rather not deal with. But Willie had plenty of airplay off that one. #1 on the charts tends to do that.

Originally posted by Beck First of all, there

Originally posted by blue2blue Wow, yourself. Well, the rednecks I know don't think "redneck" is an insult. I guess if you think it's an insult that's your interpretation. Not my interpretation at all. I live in the American South, where the term resonates with people. As I said, it is alternately used as a badge of honor by some and a derogatory term by others. Gretchen Wilson and Jeff Foxworthy, for two examples, exemplify the former. Comments on the news, national and local, in which "educated" people refer to less educated, mostly rural folks as rednecks when it suits their purpose exemplify the latter. And when you move from Chicago to Nashville, believe me you notice many instances of both. To deny the latter is common suggests you're pretty sheltered from Southern U.S. culture, Blue. Not surprising, though. Like I mentioned, I moved from Chicago and, though I was well aware that "redneck" was often an insult, I didn't notice how much it was used in that way until I lived in a southern state. With regards to demographics, country music, and suburban fans: "Market research indicates the average country listener is white, suburban and leans to the right..." -- Time Magazine Which only proves you shouldn't believe everything you read. FWIW - Time is a shadow of its' former self, IMO. A rag barely more credible than other fluff magazines. I mixed (for recording and PA) an "emergency" meeting of the CMA in the late 1990's. They had received preliminary findings of a "far reaching" poll of country music fans. I think there were a few thousand participants. Anyway, they concluded country fans really liked what was being served up, didn't think it all sounded alike, etc. Great news followed by great news. Except their record sales were plummeting from the golden days of the late 1980's and early 1990's. They couldn't have been more wrong. I just wanted to shout it out but couldn't. A lot of patting on the back as record companies were laying off people and gobbling one another up because business was "so great". If you have contrary information, I'd be happy to take a look at it. I only know what I see around me at shows, here and elsewhere. I think you were implying I might be surprised by the politics of some of my favorite roots country icons... I somehow doubt it. Not at all. You misunderstood. What I meant was your comment that the current crop of stars wouldn't know a day's work... I think you'd find many of your favorites haven't worked outside music and don't "work" their own land anymore than modern country stars. I have plenty of respect for my classic country favorites, maybe a lot more than you. I've met many of these people and enjoy their company, in some cases more than their music, and I can tell you some of them are "real" country. They bought acreages and enjoyed working their own farms, but more often than not they were suburbanites, even if they lived on small farms. Hank Snow, for one, lived in a neighborhood not far from my current home and there wasn't ever "a day's work" to be done at that home. He lived there most of his adult life, from what I gather. Politics had nothing whatsoever to do with my response as it didn't have anything to do with the comment I quoted. And finally, if you think the stuff that mainstream Nashville artists pump out has much to do with real country music -- all I can say is, wow. No doubt today's country is different and incorporates more elements recognizeable in easy listening rock of the past, but that's the way things go. People took a listen to the Outlaw movement 30 years ago and were equally vocal that "that ain't country music". In fact, they have a lot in common with the DC in that they decided to actively go outside Music Row to record. The difference was Music Row couldn't stop individual stations from playing what they wanted. Unfortunately, Lee hit it square on the head when she blamed the DC issues with radio on Clearchannel and the current administration's gutting anti-trust in communications, allowing Clearchannel to become an 800lbs gorilla of the industry. But all of that aside, whether you or I like it, the current stuff is country. It's simply the evolution of country. This is far from the first step in this direction. From Kenny Rogers & Dolly Parton to the current crop, there have been plenty of "non-country" country stars. The music won't stop evolving because you wish it to. But rest assured, somewhere down the road there will be a backlash. This has happened in waves for decades. The last time it was Randy Travis and a few others who were known as "neo-traditional" country. One of these days it'll come around. PPS... While I agree that -- everything else being equal -- a corporation typically has the right to control what they publish or disseminate -- when they broadcast on the public airwaves they do NOT have the same breadth of rights as a print or net publisher or even a cable-caster. Still, I think it confuses the issues to talk about "free speech" with regard to the Dixie Chicks' rights on this issue. It is however a pertinent term when talking about the broadcaster's (limited) free speech rights. IOW, the broadcaster's own free speech rights (limited as they are by statute and administrative rulings) could be used to argue for greater latitude in exercising their right to play or not play a record. (But it's clearly a complex field.) I don't claim to know the law in this regard, but my lay understanding is that there is no requirement for equal time outside political campaign programs, commercials, etc. and no requirement that anyone other than political candidates can force a private corporation to air their content. So while I back the DC right to speak their minds I don't see that their rights have been trampled by anyone. There is no right to a microphone and a camera for your free speech.

Jotown, the Chicks made several comments back when the original "boycott" occurred. That they made more comments this year is an extension of what was already said.

Originally posted by blue2blue I didn't read/hear the referenced "insults" though when I searched just now... The only insult I mentioned was the direct press release from the chicks that they were no longer country artists. That, in and of itself, was insulting. In a nutshell, I took it to mean rock audiences are cool, country are narrowminded, right wing nut jobs. Call me crazy, but I don't think that's reading too much between the lines when they jump ship. They never said it was about the country music powers that be. They said they were leaving country for fans who appreciate them. Originally posted by blue2blue I was raised to think that "redneck" was not to be taken as a perjorative -- that a man's neck was red because he was working in the hot sun. How you were raised has no bearing on the fact that redneck is alternately used by some southern folk as a badge of the working man's honor and as a derogatory term every time someone is labelled ignorant with a southern accent. Some people revel in that rural, salt of the earth, practiacality over book learning reputation, but many do not. Some black people think it's ok to use the "n" word between themselves is ok. Others are enraged at such use. "Redneck" is used much the same way. Originally posted by blue2blue And I don't think "redneck" should be synonomous with "right wing" -- since I know more than a few self-described rednecks who are ANYTHING but pro-Bush. Wow. An exception to a stereotype. Stop the presses! Originally posted by blue2blue But, as as a roots country fan, I think it's an absurd fantasy to think the average Nashville pop fan is anywhere close to a redneck, in the classic sense of the word. He/she is often as not suburban, with a "regular" job -- and his country pop music needs are serviced these days by people who wouldn't know an honest day's work if it walked up and kicked them in their silver cocaine straw... Wow, again. You're a demographic expert and intimately familiar with the character and past of most country pop stars. What's with that mountain sized chip on your shoulder. I don't know who you're talking about, but I'm acquainted with more than a few of those I believe you're talking about and you couldn't be more wrong. To be sure there are people in country (and rock and jazz and...) who fit the description you suggest. But don't paint such a broad picture because you're bound to be wrong, and not just about a few people. I suggest you point that evil eye at roots country and do some research. I think you'll find a lot of disappointment when you learn a thing or two about some of your favorites. Originally posted by blue2blue And -- one last thing -- about those country roots... The Dixie Chicks could hardly get a tumble with "country radio" fans when they actually sounded country... despite the fact they had killer instrumentals (Martie Seidel won third place honors at the National Fiddle Championships) and strongly roots flavored singing, it wasn't until they switched singers and developed a "smoother" less countrified sound that their sales to "country fans" took off... So A + B = C. Unfortunately, you're starting with a flawed statement. They didn't make their sound "less countrified". They played the game and made their sound more like what was selling. And for every artist that makes it there must be what, 100.. 1000 more with as much talent who don't? Please. It's convenient to blame their success on being "less country", but the fact is they were being more of what the country music establishment was selling. Even so, once they were on top, their most country album, Home, sold better than the two before it. So obviously they were in touch with people who might characterize themselves as more and less country.

Originally posted by MrKnobs Well, there's this weird thing called principles... Terry D. No, it wasn't about principles at all. They insulted all country music fans. Not just the conservative ones. Despite what the media would have you believe we're not a homogenous group of far-right-wing, ultra-conservative people. I took it as a personal insult that, as a fan of a wide variety of country music, past and present, that they dismissed me as a fan for identifying myself as such. The statements they released were as cut and dry as Bush's infamous statement to the world that they're either with us or against us in the war on terror. Either you could be a country music fan or a Dixie Chicks fan, but not both which is untrue and insulting to those of us who stand by their right to say what they want, but feel they must take responsibility for the consequences. As many have said here, you can say just about anything you want in the U.S., but that doesn't mean others must accept it. I've said it before and I'll say it again; I'm sick and tired of people ranting on and on about their rights in this country while simultaneously dismissing their responsibilities directly connected with those rights.

Originally posted by EnemyofSilence In the case of the Dixie Chicks, a point that seems to be overlooked is that Natalie Maine has, in multiple recent interviews, called the country music fans a bunch of rednecks and said that she never really liked country music. That takes the whole Bush issue off the table - the country radio stations are in business, and market to the very audience she's insuted and belittled. I can't imagine why they would play their stuff. btw, they're cancelling shows due to poor sales. Sold out Toronto in 8 minutes, but cancelling Memphis. Chicks Tix Update - Billboard This, to me, is the crux. Not only did she insult a large part of the intended audience, the Chicks announced they were leaving country music after this whole furor began. Why would a radio station play their songs when they removed themselves from the genre in a PR announcement? I like the Chicks, but that was just plain stupid.

Hey boys! Oddly enough, I hadn't seen Ted's or Jackpine's collections before. (We and Flemtone are recent HC members, but all long time MP Forum buddies.) Anyway, in lieu of a collection pic (Something I have to take, soon.) I'll post what I've got. Excuse the goofball in the pictures. (To quote Underdog, "Jus' l'il ole me" ) This was taken in 1994. Still have the cat and still have the Takamine FP360SC which I bought new in 1991 or early 1992 Me with my current baby of 7 years, a Blueridge BR-0MS bought through and setup by Nashville luthier, John LeVan. John installed the L.R. Baggs Ribbon pickup and preamp, too. Made me an early believer of the quality available from Chinese made instruments. I love the Lute Hole, given to me by a steel player I toured with. (I was monitor engineer for a country label-act.) A dulcimer I bought 4 years ago, in Land Between The Lakes State Park in Kentucky. A 1920's banjolin I bought at Gruhn Guitar in Nashville about 9 years ago. The make is unknown and it was deemed unsalvageable by Gruhn though it is still barely playable. My Peavey T-60.. Ok. Not really my T-60. I drew this in a graphics program on a Commodore64, circa 1984 or '85 for use in a flyer for my first real band gig, senior year of highschool.