akliner

If he would've acted more like that on his campaign it would've been a closer call. That was a great speech. I completely agree. The RNC made him into a monster. Also, I loved how his crowd seemed more enthusiastic for Palin than for him. That's scary. She's a divisive one.

Of course race is one of the main reasons people didn't vote for Obama. You'd have to be stunningly naive to think otherwise (and I'm a little jealous of your outlook, if that's the case)... Edit: one of the main reasons dependant upon geographic location... Actually, most of the people who identified race as a deciding factor at the exit polls voted FOR Obama...not against him.

Mr. Obama has won. California, however, voted yes on Prop 8. {censored}. Bittersweet.

So, in effect, the old testament had to be stricter because there was no opportunity of salvation at that time?

FAIL. The new covenant substituted the old covenant. It's in the bible, but apparently you only want to read some parts of it and not all of it. So why the Biblical change of heart?

Actually, I disagree. The majority should not have the right to suppress minorities, or take away rights. the majority should not have the right to deny people (blacks, christians, muslims, jews, women, gays, etc) rights that they are born with and deserve. Of course, CR has the right to believe anything he wants, but there are fundamental differences between views which respect human rights and those that don't, and those which are based on logic and humanitarian reasoning and tradition, and those that are based on kneejerk readings of the bible. Oh come on, I was obviously being escapist in the guise of diplomacy.

He said that to him, babies can be killed all day long, and that he will only value human life when people start giving the same value to animals as they give to humans. I'm not making this up. There was a greek philosophy belief system that defended exactly that - that everything was good, including death, and that a person dying was only as bad as a fly dying. I was trying to remember what it was, but couldn't. I get your point, CR. And we know, in our heart of hearts, that we will disagree, FUNDAMENTALLY, on many things. But it's OK. That's what makes America great. We may each take a node of moral superiority for our viewpoints, but at the end of the day I have no more right than you to believe my views should be expressed into laws.

. But since you don't consider human life to have any value, I guess it doesn't really matter to you. Oh. Watch out for statements like that. They discredit your whole "I'm an oppressed Christian" angle.

You're still dodging the question. Once you make my vote unacceptable and yours acceptable, you are saying only people with certain points of view should vote, and you basically end democracy. No. I'm just suggesting personal opinions on morality should not have an over-reaching influence on legislation at large. Instead, I support public health initiatives and legislation that benefit everyone in my nation. Making abortion illegal will be bad for the health of women. Thousands of women have died in the hands of back alley abortionists. Women will continue to have abortions, regardless of legality. I say that they should be done in clean and safe environments that are inspected and under the purview of certified medical professionals.

You dodged the question. The question is, how can my vote force my opinion while yours doesn't, if your opinion (regarding abortion, in this case) to me is unacceptable? I'm not dodging any question. Let me make it simpler for you: 1.You believe abortion is wrong. With my legislation, you don't have to get one. You are free to believe abortion is wrong and a disgusting waste of life that God gives each and every one of us. 2.I believe choice is right. With your legislation, nobody can get one ever. Ever. Because of YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS, nobody can ever have an abortion...regardless of how THEY feel.

How is that different than you "forcing" your views when you vote? This isn't forcing anything, it's democracy. If you say I'm forcing something with my vote and you're not forcing anything with yours, you're just being a hypocrite - and I don't think that's the case, so please explain what you're trying to say once and for all... I'm honestly confused how you can tell me what I'm supposed to vote for so I don't force my views upon you? The difference is that I support choice. In the case of abortion, being pro-choice means that individuals can make their mind about their beliefs. If you think abortion is an abomination, you have the right to not get one! If you had your way with the abortion legislation, you are removing the choice from millions of Americans who don't have the same beliefs as you-- effectively forcing them to live a certain way because of your beliefs. (this next point is illustrative, not personal, because I already know your feelings on gay marriage) In the case of gay marriage, I support the rights for gays to marry. In my ideal reality, if you're not gay, or don't support gay marriage, you can choose not go get married to a man! However, people who want to ammend the constitution to disallow gay marriage in no uncertain terms are seeking to take away the (existing or potential) rights of others who are different from them-- effectively forcing them to live a certain way because of their beliefs. You have to see the difference here, Christian.

This thread is actually just an incredible postcount-booster. Nothing more. NOTHING!. I think you mean Hai Guyz!

It's called voting and democracy. I thought that's what voting was for? To make my voice heard? Certainly. But please make no mistake when you say you're not forcing your beliefs in this context. That is simply untrue.

Because that would be like me agreeing to making theft and other kinds of murder legal. To me it's the same principle. "As long as I'm not the one being stolen or killed, go steal and kill all you want" would be the same as "I'm no longer a baby, so kill all the babies you want". So you are in the business of forcing legislation that matches your religious and moral beliefs? ...just to clarify.

This is an issue where no compromise will ever be reached because of two conflicting fundamental ideologies which classify a human "being" differently. I understand that there is a large segment of people who genuinely feel abortion is murder. I even understand why they would want legislation protecting a woman's right to choose to be overturned. However, under current legislation, those people can choose to NOT have an abortion. Since you claim, CR, that you're not in the business for "forcing" others to see things your way, why are you not content with the public's ability to choose not to have an abortion?