The Conductors Job

[Dendy Jarrett]

Great read on the importance of the orchestra conductor:

 

http://www.violinist.com/blog/ContraDancer/201411/16379/

 

[1001gear]

Yup and it's not just melodies. Most of the players get one note at a time apiece. They have to stream these disjointed parts to layer perfectly in richly marbled harmony and counterpoint. This doesn't happen without extensive sectional rehearsal both with and without conductor until a modular dependability is achieved. Only then will an orchestra respond as a single instrument. Only then can the conductor lead the group through the composer's vision. Notchyer average blues band for sure.

[RockViolin]

I'm reminded of a little demonstration the teachers at The Conductors Institute used to do. They'd start the orchestra and then walk away.

 

I think you'd be surprised art how much music can happen...and how it can happen without a conductor.

[1001gear]

Well rehearsed control group, familiar material maybe?

[RockViolin]

First day sometimes, and not at all rehearsed. Probably material we've seen before or are familiar with to the extent that only a fool would walk into the gig and sight read. A Mozart overture-sure, a movt. of a Brahms symphony possibly...something new and avante garde that nobody has heard before- no.

 

The point being I suppose that a lot of the time conductors are not nearly as indispensable as some of them seem to think they are. Ego check. Or maybe just to show that every musical moment doesn't have to have the conductor's will attached to it. Attention though-yes.

[1001gear]

I dunno, I can see that being all the notes are set in stone as are the style parameters, an advanced conducting class might survive the drama of your example quite easily. I'd like to think there are still myriads of interpretive details that have to be defined by the conductor - at least one of the "great performances" type.

[RockViolin]

It's not my example- it was the example of some rather lofty conductors.

 

My, it's a wonder that chamber groups can manage without conductors at all isn't it? Quartets, quintets, octets, just read and obey the etched in stone stuff and plod along aimlessly. LOL

 

I'm not saying that conductors don't add value and their expertise. It's symbiotic /syncronicity at it's best---the conductor orchestra relationship. It is largely their interpretation when they are wielding the baton.

 

They have a job to do. So does the concertmaster-who, in earlier times, was the conductor. A stick and a podium may make one in charge, if not the best musician on stage, but there are myriads of musical events that some conductors have faith in their players to execute to their satisfaction. In short-there are times when a conductor is needed and times where he/she can stay out of the way and let it roll----and the trick is to know the difference.

[1001gear]

Small groups can run on telepathy whereas a full orchestra may be a din of unity. Reverb Nation lol. Assuming we're talking about professional groups, yeah, they could auto pilot all the pop and most of the classical repertoire but they can't be second guessing or worse plain guessing at shifting balances, colors, timing - not with the complexity of coordination and interaction involved.

[RockViolin]

I wasn't talking youth symphony. Professional-yes. I was a professional orchestra player for 2 decades...until a neck injury. I paid for a mortgage, bills, cool car, gear that way.

 

I played for The Conductor's Institute for 5-6 summers while still in school. That orchestra was made up of capable students and professional players.

 

Nobody has to guess. We listen and anticipate/react. The same skills that work in a chamber group are of no lesser value in an orchestra. To be sure though-90+ players in a large hall benefit from the presence of a good conductor. Absolutely.

 

I like how you keep the convo going 1001gear-but I think we're talking past each other-as usual.

 

 

[1001gear]

You have orchestral experience and I just listen to the stuff. I can tell you what I hear is what I'm talking about. The big city orchestra here in Nowhere USA is very good. Young players with the latest training as well as geezers. When they perform, there's no magic. no clams but no magic. There's a big difference between just professional competence and making the music.

[Dendy Jarrett]

I think it depends on —

A) the group - if you put together an entire orchestra out of A1+ players, they probably could play a piece quite perfectly all the way through

b) leadership- a good conductor that has great leadership qualities should be able to leave the podium and the orchestra carry forth without him

 

BUT—

 

In my opinion, the conductor should be there to extract the emotion and feeling of a song from the players. He is the one that can hold a note longer than the normal count or 'pull' more out or have the players 'hold more back' during a performance. These are the things that an orchestra simply cannot manage without a good conductor.

 

D

[RockViolin]

You have orchestral experience and just listen to the stuff. I can tell you what I hear is what I'm talking about. The big city orchestra here in Nowhere USA is very good. Young players with the latest training as well as geezers. When they perform, there's no magic. no clams but no magic. There's a big difference between just professional competence and making the music.

 

"just listen to the stuff"

 

Actually, for reasons I don't care to get into, I prefer silence these days. But it wasn't always that way. I've heard and played a lot of great music-and I was all ears at the time.

 

The rest of your post is neither news nor a surprise to me and I agree.

[RockViolin]

I think it depends on —

A) the group - if you put together an entire orchestra out of A1+ players, they probably could play a piece quite perfectly all the way through

b) leadership- a good conductor that has great leadership qualities should be able to leave the podium and the orchestra carry forth without him

 

BUT—

 

In my opinion, the conductor should be there to extract the emotion and feeling of a song from the players. He is the one that can hold a note longer than the normal count or 'pull' more out or have the players 'hold more back' during a performance. These are the things that an orchestra simply cannot manage without a good conductor.

 

D

 

Yes!

 

The NBC orchestra tried to carry on without Toscanini for a while...just envisioning him on the podium. I guess it went well enough to give it a whirl, but they gave it up in time.

 

IMO the most important role of the conductor, at the fully professional level, is to inspire. Traffic cops are easy to come by and really only necessary at key intersections, and only garner passing attention when it seems like they might be of some use in that regard.

[1001gear]

 

"just listen to the stuff"

 

Actually, for reasons I don't care to get into, I prefer silence these days. But it wasn't always that way. I've heard and played a lot of great music-and I was all ears at the time.

 

The rest of your post is neither news nor a surprise to me and I agree.

 

Typo there. I thought I wrotificated, " ...and I just listen to the stuff." Editing post.

[RockViolin]

Just a test. ...

[Dendy Jarrett]

 

Yes!

 

The NBC orchestra tried to carry on without Toscanini for a while...just envisioning him on the podium. I guess it went well enough to give it a whirl, but they gave it up in time.

 

IMO the most important role of the conductor, at the fully professional level, is to inspire. Traffic cops are easy to come by and really only necessary at key intersections, and only garner passing attention when it seems like they might be of some use in that regard.

 

I totally agree about the inspiration - Key element often missing.

Anyone can follow a roadmap, but to be inspired is something totally different.

 

D