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The challenge of filming your own concert

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  • The challenge of filming your own concert

    So we all know how most cheap concert vids on youtube turn out --- one camera in the back of the room, can barely see the band in the distance, lighting sucks, and sound (on-camera mic) is horrible.

    What kinds of things can you do to avoid falling into this trap -- to actually make the video itself worth experiencing??
    <blockquote><hr><strong>weebz wrote:</strong><br><br>God appeared to me in a dream and said &quot;Thou shalt post on Guitar Jam&quot; <img border="0" title="Embarrassment" alt="" src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/redface.gif"></blockquote>

  • #2
    1. Don't do it yourself, you're there to play music not play cameraman. Hiring a small crew isn't that expensive and it's worth it.

    2. Use real equipment and not cheap video cameras. Better to use a real cameraman & crew, that already has the equipment needed for the job. It gets real expensive, real fast, when buying good gear.

    3. Don't use the on-board mic, get real mics and use a program like "dual eyes" and sync the audio in post. Record the audio through the P.A. and mix it seperatly, dual eyes allows you to get the perfect sync(it's mac only though ATM). You can overdub in the studio as well, if you want a cleaner sound.

    4. Get multiple cameras so you can have different angles, instead of just the same spot all night(that gets really boring and is amateurish)

    5. Multiple mics to capture crowd sounds, mix it in to your personal taste.

    6. Have fun and look lively
    <div class="signaturecontainer">It is said, to become famous, one must make a deal with the Devil. Well, where is his bitch ass at? I am ready to sign...........in blood. <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/evil.gif" border="0" alt="" title="evil" class="inlineimg" /><br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.myspace.com/officialkhemical" target="_blank">Khemical Official Myspace Page</a><br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/officialkhemical" target="_blank"> Reverbnation</a><br />
    <br />
    The Pope. God's representative on earth, who is so sure of his faith that he has to be driven around in a bulletproof ice-cream van.<br />
    <br />
    Or maybe that's just to attract the kids... <b><i>-Gallus</i></b></div>

    Comment


    • #3
      Then again...

      You could record to a 24 track HD ADAT. Transfer to Pro Tools, hire a good mixer.

      And take 3 Flip cameras. One stationary, hung over the stage out front. Close. And two roaming.

      Sync is easy. Snare drum visual. Composite in Final Cut or Premier or Vegas.

      Think ahead. I know the concept of a few Flip cameras might be sacrilegious to some but...you can get good stuff if you have people with a good eye and a head on their shoulders. Those DIY steadicams Phait was going on about look very promising as well.
      Thomas Jefferson said... "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." hmmm...

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Multicam & Multicam editing
        2. Good angles (duh). Establishing shot of entire stage, telephoto close up from the side, and one "stage presence" wide angle is preferable.
        3. Record line-in from the PA. Use Dual Eyes to sync in post.
        4. WHITE BALANCE. I cannot stress this enough. Nobody is going to take a video setting seriously if everybody has orange faces (unless there are orange lights).
        5. ???
        6. Profit.

        Comment


        • #5
          Or if it's not essential to make it a documentation of a live concert, you can cheat And this only requires one camera person!

          Record the song in the studio, making it as insanely great as humanly possible. Find the venue where you want to shoot the video. Get a good playback system, and play the song as the band lip-syncs to it. Take lots of footage - one run-through with the camera on each member of the band, then some wide shots, close-ups, etc. Record the audio as it plays in the background, as this makes it easy to "free sync" later.

          Go back into the editing suite and throw it all together. You'll be able to cut back and forth among all kinds of shots, and by lining up the camera audio with the version done in the studio, sync is not an issue. If the lip-synching doesn't look convincing, then you have plenty of other footage you can use of other band members, or distant shots.

          Yeah, it's cheating...video is smoke and mirrors
          _____________________________________________
          There are now 14 music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including four songs by Mark Longworth. Watch the music video playlist, subscribe, and spread the links! Check back often, because there's more to come...

          Comment


          • #6
            Yup, don't really need multi cams for a music video, will take a little a longer, but you can do it much much cheaper.
            <div class="signaturecontainer">It is said, to become famous, one must make a deal with the Devil. Well, where is his bitch ass at? I am ready to sign...........in blood. <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/evil.gif" border="0" alt="" title="evil" class="inlineimg" /><br />
            <br />
            <a href="http://www.myspace.com/officialkhemical" target="_blank">Khemical Official Myspace Page</a><br />
            <br />
            <a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/officialkhemical" target="_blank"> Reverbnation</a><br />
            <br />
            The Pope. God's representative on earth, who is so sure of his faith that he has to be driven around in a bulletproof ice-cream van.<br />
            <br />
            Or maybe that's just to attract the kids... <b><i>-Gallus</i></b></div>

            Comment


            • #7
              Or if it's not essential to make it a documentation of a live concert, you can cheat And this only requires one camera person!

              Record the song in the studio, making it as insanely great as humanly possible. Find the venue where you want to shoot the video. Get a good playback system, and play the song as the band lip-syncs to it. Take lots of footage - one run-through with the camera on each member of the band, then some wide shots, close-ups, etc. Record the audio as it plays in the background, as this makes it easy to "free sync" later.

              Go back into the editing suite and throw it all together. You'll be able to cut back and forth among all kinds of shots, and by lining up the camera audio with the version done in the studio, sync is not an issue. If the lip-synching doesn't look convincing, then you have plenty of other footage you can use of other band members, or distant shots.

              Yeah, it's cheating...video is smoke and mirrors


              Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't lip syncing incredibly effin lame? Who would want to see a lip synced concert...

              Comment


              • #8
                Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't lip syncing incredibly effin lame? Who would want to see a lip synced concert...


                But the video will be so great no one will care
                _____________________________________________
                There are now 14 music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including four songs by Mark Longworth. Watch the music video playlist, subscribe, and spread the links! Check back often, because there's more to come...

                Comment


                • #9
                  But the video will be so great no one will care

                  ...except the crowd? Honestly if I saw a band lip syncing I would throw bottles at them *cough*MGMT*cough*

                  Besides, taking the audio from the PA then syncing in post is much less problematic; it's hard to mess that up. If you sync the actual show to a pre-recorded studio piece, not only is the entire performance illegitimate, but it won't have that same raw energy that you would get from a real performance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    He's filming an event, not making a music video.
                    Thomas Jefferson said... "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." hmmm...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      He's filming an event, not making a music video.


                      How many professionally released DVD's don't have overdubs though?

                      It's pretty standard practice, & you can hate it all you want, but it makes for a much more polished & professional DVD,then with just raw sound, which will probably include mild hisisng, flubbed notes, etc.

                      You're trying to release a product, let those who attend get the raw show, but make an effort to make your DVD flawless.

                      Led Zep has done it for their DVD when Plant missed certain high notes, so they scrubbed it over with vocal takes from a previous performance. Insturment fixes(flubbed notes for example) are very very common.

                      You also may have a ****************ty soundguy or he may be good but has a "bad day", so you're going to have to tweak in post anyway.

                      Here's two bands I enjoy(vary by genre, but still close enough to make this point)

                      RAW Video:


                      Hard to understand lyrics, muddy sound, vocal hiccups, etc. Love the band, but I wouldn't pay one red cent for this piss poor production, even though I love the band & this song particularly.

                      EDITED Video: Overdubs, post-editing, etc


                      A professional presentation that I would pay to watch, In fact I did years ago when it first came out

                      No mud, perfectly balanced insturments & crowd sounds, vocals aren't drowned out or have any "out-of-breathe" moments, etc.

                      You can be purist and use raw sound only or put together a product people will actually pay for, it's your call.

                      Fear Factory tried to offload this **************** years back and no one was buying it. People hate this DVD & for good reason, it's hackish video & sound. The only ppl who enjoyed it were ppl who just liked the band & wanted a DVD since they never released one before, but it's more of a novelty item than a legitimate video event production.



                      There are no rules, but i'd highly suggest letting go of your ego and just try to make the most polished production you can do within your budget. The vast majority don't know what you did "behind the scenes" they will enjoy a good sounding & looking video however.....
                      <div class="signaturecontainer">It is said, to become famous, one must make a deal with the Devil. Well, where is his bitch ass at? I am ready to sign...........in blood. <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/evil.gif" border="0" alt="" title="evil" class="inlineimg" /><br />
                      <br />
                      <a href="http://www.myspace.com/officialkhemical" target="_blank">Khemical Official Myspace Page</a><br />
                      <br />
                      <a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/officialkhemical" target="_blank"> Reverbnation</a><br />
                      <br />
                      The Pope. God's representative on earth, who is so sure of his faith that he has to be driven around in a bulletproof ice-cream van.<br />
                      <br />
                      Or maybe that's just to attract the kids... <b><i>-Gallus</i></b></div>

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        There are no rules, but i'd highly suggest letting go of your ego and just try to make the most polished production you can do within your budget. The vast majority don't know what you did "behind the scenes" they will enjoy a good sounding & looking video however.....

                        Even if you do overdub, the only people who are going to PAY for a concert DVD are people who like the band to begin with. It's one thing to sweeten the sound or fix flubbed notes, but to make the entire video just a sync to studio work seems like poor taste. If I buy a concert DVD, I'm paying money to see the concert, not watch out-of-context footage while I listen to an album.

                        Sure there's no rules, but to me syncing is along the lines of a photo journalist telling people to smile and pose for the camera...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Even if you do overdub, the only people who are going to PAY for a concert DVD are people who like the band to begin with. It's one thing to sweeten the sound or fix flubbed notes, but to make the entire video just a sync to studio work seems like poor taste. If I buy a concert DVD, I'm paying money to see the concert, not watch out-of-context footage while I listen to an album.

                          Sure there's no rules, but to me syncing is along the lines of a photo journalist telling people to smile and pose for the camera...


                          It's not usually pure studio work, it's a mix of both. You ,of course want to have good source material(sound in this case) to begin with, but there's nothing wrong with post-edit touch ups. It's going to add, not take away value from your concert video. Having all your sounds isloated as much as possible(band & crowd) makes it much easier to blend in post and get a proper mix.

                          Most of the people buying your DVD will be fans already this is true, but if a buddy said "hey check these guys out" and pops in a DVD that has the sound/video quality of a camera from the 1950's and has shoddy camerawork(working angles, switching & panning, etc) even if the band is incredible live, I am not feeling it. It's going to sound like muddled garbage & will make the band seem worse than they really are.

                          There's no right or wrong way to do it, but try to be a little open to adding that little bit of spit polish to your production so it's able to be sold & promoted. A cameraphone video quality DVD won't cut it, even if it's "pure" with no overdubs, etc.

                          I also do photography and prefer to take shots of people unknowingly and it's great for promotional material & is very natural and lively, but people still enjoy a nice portrait shot too and pay good money for it too.
                          <div class="signaturecontainer">It is said, to become famous, one must make a deal with the Devil. Well, where is his bitch ass at? I am ready to sign...........in blood. <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/evil.gif" border="0" alt="" title="evil" class="inlineimg" /><br />
                          <br />
                          <a href="http://www.myspace.com/officialkhemical" target="_blank">Khemical Official Myspace Page</a><br />
                          <br />
                          <a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/officialkhemical" target="_blank"> Reverbnation</a><br />
                          <br />
                          The Pope. God's representative on earth, who is so sure of his faith that he has to be driven around in a bulletproof ice-cream van.<br />
                          <br />
                          Or maybe that's just to attract the kids... <b><i>-Gallus</i></b></div>

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            if a buddy said "hey check these guys out" and pops in a DVD that has the sound/video quality of a camera from the 1950's and has shoddy camerawork(working angles, switching & panning, etc) even if the band is incredible live, I am not feeling it. It's going to sound like muddled garbage & will make the band seem worse than they really are.

                            There's no right or wrong way to do it, but try to be a little open to adding that little bit of spit polish to your production so it's able to be sold & promoted. A cameraphone video quality DVD won't cut it, even if it's "pure" with no overdubs, etc.

                            I also do photography and prefer to take shots of people unknowingly and it's great for promotional material & is very natural and lively, but people still enjoy a nice portrait shot too and pay good money for it too.


                            I'm not saying he should half-ass the project. You can have elaborate multi-cam setups and mics everywhere and still capture the live sound with great quality. Some of the best live shows I've heard were recorded from the PA, then mixed in post, and it sounds phenomenal. Yes, polishing live recordings can always help to an extent, but to do the sound 100% in post, then have the band not even perform the actual song themselves, is incredibly lame.

                            As for my photography simile, portraiture and photojournalism are two different things. You don't see National Geographic photographers telling people in Africa to stop what they're doing amid a special event and pose for a photo...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I didn't perceive lip syncing as being the MO for the OP. His title: The challenge of filming your own concert. So, sure... lip syncing is great for showcasing a band. For developing a conceptual medium to present the band and song. But for "filming your own concert", you need to capture the event.

                              Sweetening? Sure. But you need to still capture the performance before you go about sweetening and replacing, etc. The ground up thinking on this one should be, multiple cameras, multitrack audio capture. Capture the event, sweeten as needed or desired.
                              Thomas Jefferson said... "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." hmmm...

                              Comment



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