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  • #31
    one program you'll ever need

    SAWPro (software audio workshop)

    i find it excellent.. way better than n-track at least....
    i've only tried a few but i find this one excellent..

    supports midi also
    has 24/96 quality

    input from multiple soundcards

    etc
    look it up

    very nice program
    Rock is immortal, we're only human

    It's perfectly natural. The guitar IS all about sex. That's why BB King is strumming "Lucille" and not "Louie". -boneraxe

    Comment


    • #32
      I recently purchased cool edit pro 2.0 and it's real good because I know nothing about recording. I do have a complaint though....

      The bloody stupid thing likes to just up and put these clicks and other various sounds sometimes when I record my guitar. I try to minimize them but the only way to kill them is cut and paste the exact same thing in. For this reason I record around 1 minute of audio or less at a time because it takes me forever to get something flawless and then I'll here some bloody stupid noise! Anyone else have this problem? So, I wouldn't recommend it if this is a common problem.
      OJ Wrecking Crew
      http://myspace.com/firesdoom
      http://myspace.com/onceloyal





      Originally posted by Darl Bundren


      Firesdoom

      I vow tonight, in all seriousness, to have surpassed you in post totals by next Thursday

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      • #33
        Out of all the audio editors, I've gotten trial versions or bought the following (for PC):

        -Sonar 1.3 (will upgrade to 2.0)
        -Cool Edit Pro
        -Vegas Audio (came with my audio card)
        -Logic 5.0
        -Cubase VST
        -Nuendo 1.0
        -Samplitude 6.0
        -Pro Tools
        -Magix Music Maker 5

        I guess I'll list them by cost:

        Magix Music Maker 5
        I haven't spent much time on this one, but I can say it tries to emulate the old drum machines from the 80s quite well.
        It is basically just a start up recording software, if you don't want to spend too much money. Has limited eq and reverb capabilities, limited tracks (8). I use it only for the drum sounds then export that into Sonar. It has limited recording capability (one track at a time). Not bad starter software. Horrible locking key encription algorithm - every time you reinstall have to get their cust support to send you unlock code, usually takes 2 days.

        Cool Edit Pro
        Now, of all these I have to say that I like Cool Edit Pro the best due to the fact that it has tons of effects included, audio mastering facility and the ability to do conversions and extractions in most audio formats. It also has great audio restoration and noise reduction ability as well. For the price I think it is the most worthy software of the bunch, truly the only one that offers a mastering suite and a multitracker in one. It has limited midi from what I hear, I do not use midi at this point.


        Sonar
        I stuck around with Sonar because I had the old Cakewalk 9 version and upgraded. I have to say that they have the most user friendly and logical layout (rivaled only maybe by Nuendo and Cool Edit Pro) and lots of features.
        I do not like most of their built in effects but after getting their direct x plugin extras I can say they have a nice guitar amp simulator and the analogue tape simulator is pretty good (I think those come standard in ver. 2.0). seeing ver. 2.0 I can say that they've added a nice eq to the effects.
        Most of the direct x plugins that come in with Sonar are lacking, and if anyone is serious about doing any work, the PSP plugins or Waves plugins should be in order to get this one properly going (unless you already have the outboard effects). Patching is a breeze in Sonar and I especially like the easy of switching between the track view and the old school mixer view.
        From what I hear it has good midi capabilities, even though I do not use midi.

        Nuendo
        I've tried it out and this one was a breeze to use, wonderful software.
        If it weren't so expensive I'd have it.
        Very stable, great sound and layout.
        The built in plugins are killer.
        From what I hear it has limited midi (about the same as Pro Tools) .
        I think uses USB dongle as protection?


        Samplitude
        This one is really nice software by my opinion. Support was suspect for a while, then they've sold it to Magix so I really don't know where it stands right now. It was very good software and the layout was very smart and user friendly in my opinion. They've moved up to version 7.0


        Vegas Audio
        This one came with my soundcard.
        It wasn't bad, but at the time I was used to Sonar so did not use it much but for its direct x plugins which came in real handy in replacing the cruddy plugins in Sonar. It has real nice eq (parametric and graphic) and compressor effects.
        Recoding is pretty straightforward and I hear now they have support for video files. I had trouble recording all outputs from my Delta 1010 card into it (it didn't quite support my hardware, M-Audio fixed that later on in a driver revision). Not sure how midi is on this one, but probably pretty bad.


        Logic
        I've spent very little time on it, all it helped me figure out how little I knew about it and that I have to get back to Sonar unless I want to spend quite a long time learning this one, especially recording audio. Has great midi from what I hear. Support for PC has been discontinued at ver. 5.5
        USB dongle protection


        Cubase VST
        Same as Logic - made me run back to Sonar, steep learning curve especially on preperly recording audio. Has great midi from what I hear.

        Pro Tools
        I spent a while on the trial version to find out that this product is pretty much media hype. I found the learning curve steep and all the other programs much more user friendly and easy to work with. Lots of proprietary crap that was worthless to deal with.
        In my opinion way overrated.
        Midi is limited from what I hear.
        ========================

        http://www.descentintomadness.com

        Comment


        • #34
          My 2 Pfennigs.....
          * Cubase
          I have heard that SX is still extremely buggy, so we are still on VST 32 5.0 r.4 (I think)
          Cubase is a great program for primarily Electronic Musicians, and for MIDI......evidently they are now going after Digi with.......

          * Nuendo. This is the first PC based program that IMHO, is as good as Pro Tools. The interface is great, and it defintely has a professional feel to it. Nuendo is much more intuitive and easier to learn. I hear that 2.0 is Cubase SX, and then some......

          * Logic
          Seems to be over..........Had this program for quite some time (Platinum version) and found it extremely difficult to learn. German thinking (Cubase also), does not translate well into recording software!!!

          * Pro Tools LE
          I think that it works MUCH better on the Mac than the PC, since the code is ported over. Easy to learn, and an industry standard.
          However, the mic preamps in the interface SUCK!!!

          * SONAR.....
          Never tried it, but if it is anything like Cakewalk, it has to be Semi-pro at best.

          Great Thread!!!
          Kindest Regards-Brad Hagen http://www.musiciansadvocate.com "Just Say "NO!!!" to the megastores!!"

          Comment


          • #35
            3 years ago when I started recording I chose Vegas because after downloading all the demos I could find Vegas seemed to be the eaasiest to learn. It is very windows-ish. I installed it and was recording without ever opoening the manual.

            I am cyrrently upgrading my system so this is a great thread. The new Vegas 4.0 is on my list of possibilities as I would have 0 learning curve. I have downloaded the Sonar demo and was aboe to run with it without a problem.

            Downloaded both Cubase and ProTools (free) demos and I am totally lost. I am trying to find tutorials as I knwo they can't be THAT hard to learn.

            But for simplicity for multi-track recording analog audio Vegas has done everything I wanted it to do other than automate effects which version 4 now does. I can not say anything bad about it but everyone seems to consider it childplay compared to Cubase, Sonar abd Protools.
            http://www.rahanguitars.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by RAHAN Guitars
              3 years ago when I started recording I chose Vegas because after downloading all the demos I could find Vegas seemed to be the eaasiest to learn. It is very windows-ish. I installed it and was recording without ever opoening the manual.

              I am cyrrently upgrading my system so this is a great thread. The new Vegas 4.0 is on my list of possibilities as I would have 0 learning curve. I have downloaded the Sonar demo and was aboe to run with it without a problem.

              Downloaded both Cubase and ProTools (free) demos and I am totally lost. I am trying to find tutorials as I knwo they can't be THAT hard to learn.

              But for simplicity for multi-track recording analog audio Vegas has done everything I wanted it to do other than automate effects which version 4 now does. I can not say anything bad about it but everyone seems to consider it childplay compared to Cubase, Sonar abd Protools.


              --Rahan, actually I don't find Vegas any lesser that Sonar, to be honest I like some of its features, especially the plugin effect chaining, etc.
              The reasons why I chose Sonar were because Vegas did not fully support my Delta 1010 at the time (only 2 channels out of 8) and because they didn't have the mixer analogue console view that Sonar had (that is my preferred view in Sonar).
              Otherwise, sonically I found no difference between the two and I've heard some friends of mine record great stuff with Vegas. So if it works for you and they've added fx automation (which is nothing that great in Sonar, believe me - quite buggy) you should be ok to stay with it, hell, I might give it a shot again.
              ========================

              http://www.descentintomadness.com

              Comment


              • #37
                JJbraunius - I am so happy to hear that I am not the only person on this board who likes vegas. In comparing Vegas 4 to other software I find 3 drawbacks.

                1) The automation can not be done real time. It is a matter of drawing envelopes.
                2) No support for outboard gear.
                3) No mixer view.

                I have already written to them and begged them to catch up with the competition and they said maybe in version 5. I am also still considering Sonar just for the fact it does the 3 things that I really want vegas to do.

                I figured I might be better off to go with the industry standard and try Protools. I like the digi 002 interface and set up. So I figured it worth the investment to first buy a 3rd party tutorial program. I have gone through the first couple of sections twice and I am very frustrated at how much work it takes just to add an audio track. From my view it looks like you have to set up all the routing every time. If you want a master volume you have to set up a track as your master. Effects - I have only touched on that part and am still scratching my head. Maybe I am just too old to elarn new tricks but I always considered myself pretty good with PCs. I guess if flexability is a must, this is a great program but as far as being intuitive... not even close.

                I will still give Protools another couple of days of fiddling and see if it "clicks".
                http://www.rahanguitars.com

                Comment


                • #38
                  Rahan - you are right about ProTools.
                  I found it the same way and actually gave up on it - too complex for what it did and I found it just way overhyped.
                  Sonar 2.0 got most of the things right, their plugins are kinda crappy, I actually use the Vegas plugins on mine, the eq and comp on Vegas are killer!
                  The mixer automation in Sonar is pretty good and that is something that Vegas has to catch up to for sure.
                  If you can afford Nuendo - it is killer.
                  Now a question - what do you want to do with outboard gear? You mean like a controller? I had the Peavey controller for Cakewalk 9 and Sonar and most of the time I found it easier to go by the mouse and keyboard than to use that thing.
                  Now if you mean routing to outboard effects and such, have not tried it, but I was able to setup Sonar to do it with reverb, etc. - maybe in Vegas also will just have to be patching out of the card and assigning a different bus on it? Not quite sure there, but maybe it can be done
                  ========================

                  http://www.descentintomadness.com

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    If you are making electronic music, all you need are cubase, reaktor, and cool edit. Anything else is a distraction.

                    Build all your synths, effects, etc. from scratch in reaktor, control them using cubase automation and a midi keyboard.

                    Edit sounds using cool edit.

                    Halion or equivelent drum sampler is also useful. Maybe some nice plugins like Waves or an equivelent for those reverbs, compressors, EQs that probably would be a waste of time to try to build in reaktor. But I would try to not use the same reverb too often... maybe leave this for the mastering stage along with the EQ and compression.

                    Using this you can make original, amazing electronic music. The key really is treating electronic music with respect and learning how to actually build things instead of just using presets. Most people take music lessons learning a particular instrument and how to make all the sounds they can get out of it, but nobody seems to want to get into the guts when it comes to electronic music. The same seems to go for ear training. Many electronic musicians I have talked to can't tell the difference between a flanger and a chorus or phasing effect.

                    Everyone has the same waldorf, kurzweil, korg, nord, etc. presets. Tons of people download hacked copies of soft synths like absynth, FM7, etc. so using those isn't a great idea either. Building things from scratch in reaktor will yield the best results, or in another program that is modular. These "minimoog" type hardware and software synths are nice to begin on, but after awhile you are only hindering yourself.

                    I know I may have digressed from what others were talking about - mainly multitracking/editing programs, but since the title is PC Software 101 I'd thought I'd comment on the whole package. Because it's all about how you use the programs together, using the pluses and features in each to make up for the minuses of each.

                    - Brian
                    http://www.mixchange.net Free Musical Equipment classifieds

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Mixchange - I don't think you can digress as this thread was meant for people to gather opinions and learn a thing or two. Your input on electrnic music seems very helpful.

                      JJbraumius - Good question and comment on the outboard gear. I like it because it just seems like it would be very comfortable and give the studio feel to the PC. Your comment summarize the concern I have which is - Will I use it? Or will I end up finding mouse clicking to be easier. I would think the feel of real faders would be much better than click and drag but...

                      So I think this is a good question to continue to gather opinions on... If you have outboard gear do you use it? A lot? A little? Have you digressed back to the mouse on some things? How useful is a control surface for real? Come on with your honest opinions.

                      I hope this is not like asking someone who pulls up in their new Mercedes if they like their car... Have you ever even imagined the guy would say... You know, I just spent a hundred grand on it and I really don't think its worth it at all, pretty crappy car really, overpriced piece of...
                      http://www.rahanguitars.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        can someone quickly tell me which program is more powerfull, sonar 2 xl or Cubase SX? I would probally find out if i carefully read every single message in this post but that is too much work, can someone sum it up for me?
                        Guitars:
                        - Custom Build Mosrite-like
                        - Custom Build Strat-like
                        - Custom Build Warmoth-VIP
                        - 1989 Carvin DC135
                        - Godin Icon Type 2 Fat Black
                        - Ibanez AF95
                        - Larivee LV-03R
                        - Seagull Maritime SWS Rosewood SG
                        - Martin C1K Uke

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ryant
                          can someone quickly tell me which program is more powerfull, sonar 2 xl or Cubase SX? I would probally find out if i carefully read every single message in this post but that is too much work, can someone sum it up for me?


                          Depending what you want to do, either might be the "most powerful" for your needs. As far as general features go, they are both pretty stocked for MIDI and audio.

                          In the plug-in department, Cubase has the advantage of running VST plug-ins natively. Sonar will do it, but you'll shell out an extra $50 or so for a wrapper application. There are more free VST plug-ins out there compared to directX (which is what Sonar runs natively).

                          If you're about to spend the cash on one of these programs, I think you should take the time to read most of this thread as part of your research.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Don't know much about programs - but I inquired about buying Cubase SX and it was pretty expensive. It's far cheaper to buy an old version of Cubase - say VST 4.x and use Steinberg's upgrade option. The upgrade price varies depending on the first version you bought, but it'll cost you roughly 2/3 of the SX price if you do it this way and the end result is exactly the same.

                            "squeak"
                            I got more culture than yoghurt

                            I've been Catholic and I've been Zen, I've been a Bhuddist since Christ knows when - Fred Smith

                            Congrats to the Mouse that Roared... - Thumper

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                            • #44
                              Get a copy of cubase 5 instead of sonar. They go for around $100 and the VST implementation is the best. I don't even like SX, I still use 5
                              http://www.mixchange.net Free Musical Equipment classifieds

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Ryant, why not download their trial versions and find out for yourself?
                                I had to pick in the past and I'd go with Sonar - much easier to get a grasp on.
                                Cubase on the other hand has killer midi compositional tools and the vst plugins is definitely an added extra that is really nice - you can download some really good pro quality plugins either for free of for very little money.
                                I am not sure about the wrapper applications, the ones I've tried seemed to make the PC sluggish and since I have enough good direct x plugins it wasn't an issue, but definitely a hindrance.
                                ========================

                                http://www.descentintomadness.com

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