Harmony Central Forums
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

to warm up my sound?...please help

Collapse



X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • to warm up my sound?...please help

    I have 2 MOTU 828 Firewire interfaces runiing into a computer sytem and I record into Cubase SX. I am contemplating the purchase of an analog reel to reel 16 track beacause I want a more vintage warm, fat sound. I'd like to record tracks onto the tape first, then dump the audio into the digital system for editing and mixdown.

    Does anyone know if this is the best way to go, or can I get it done just them same by just going through tube preamps instead?

    -John

  • #2
    Two different things, both valid, and expensive to do right. Tape is great for bass & drums - absorbs the transients better than limiters.

    Before you get too carried away - have you tried the AnalogFlux Suite from www.voxengo.com? The TapeBus plugin is worthy of experimenting with. It uses convolution processing of impulses taken from various high-end tape machines (I think the first one is a Studer). This enables a sort of transient phase smearing that simple saturation or limiting can't do. It also has one of the best digital saturation algorithms around - so you can induce distortion if you want.

    It's very CPU intensive - so I would use the offline processing of SX. This way you have a backup if you change your mind, and you free up your CPU for other stuff.

    If you have tried Magneto that comes with SX, TapeBus makes Magneto sound like a stinky pile of poo.

    Another worthy contender is PSP Mixpack MixSaturator. Or their Vintage Warmer.

    There are many plugins claiming to give analog 'warmth' - and most of them sound like kack to me.

    Warmth is a state of mind. I don't believe it's necessary to use tape or tubes or transformers to get it, although there is certainly some vintage gear that set a very high standard.

    Comment


    • #3
      Great advice, Kiwi. I use all the abovementioned plug-ins over anything else out there in addition to a couple of old 1/4" reel to reel recorders. I'll probably add some tubes, eventually, but the point is: experiment! and do it cheaply, at first.

      Comment


      • #4
        An analog 16 track is a pretty scary thing unless you have a damn good idea of how to align and maintain an analog tape machine... not to mention that it's way easier to score a bag of cocaine than a reel of analog tape.

        I would suggest that the first thing you look at to "warm up" your sound might be to eliminate the bottleneck you have at the converter level... the MOTU converters are doing nothing positive in terms of allowing all the tone you're working with get to the storage medium... in fact, if you did score an analog 16 track deck you would still have to overcome the bottleneck of mediocre converters with a mediocre clocking system before you would reap all the available benefits of adding that deck to your signal path.

        I would highly suggest that you look into a good converter set... the Apogee AD & DA 16X are a great place to look that is fairly cost effective [next ot a good running deck and the long haul maintenance costs involved with one of those machines]... then perhaps doing your summing in the analog domain with any of the myriad of outboard analog summing devices would probably be another excellent move on your part.

        One last warning... toob pre-amps... it is expensive to build a good tube circuit so for the most part, all these neat little "toob" boxes you're going to find in the guitar stores that don't cost a lot, also don't sound a lot... in many cases I find they do far more damage to the overall tone, texture and depth of the audio than good [about the only thing they might warm is the air around the unit].

        Best of luck with your search... please remember that myths are there for people who don't do their homework... so before you go spewing thousands of dollars looking at the wrong things, do some serious homework.

        Peace.
        .
        CN Fletcher

        Professional affiliations:

        R/E/P -- professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums... serious hobbyists welcome

        mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
        We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid

        "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -A. Whitney Brown

        Comment


        • #5
          in many cases I find they do far more damage to the overall tone, texture and depth of the audio than good [about the only thing they might warm is the air around the unit].


          It must be cold in here, as a toob pre warming the air around it sounds kinda pleasant.
          http://www.shrinking-pants.com has become http://www.shrinking-pants.net

          BUT IT'S STILL AS COOL (almost)

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the tips guys...

            So if I got the Apogee AD-16 converter, how would that hook into my recording chain, between which units?

            And, what do you mean by analog summing?

            thank you,
            John

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by musicmakesus
              And, what do you mean by analog summing?


              The idea is that when you mix in the box (ITB), the sound quality of the 2-track mix suffers. One theory is that when you mix ITB, resolution is lost due to the computations required for panning, gain changes, plugins, etc., and how those calculations are performed. In order to avoid perceived problems with digital summing, you dump out stems from your DAW into a device that takes the 8, 16, or however many outputs and sums them in the analog domain into two channels. I don't have any significant experience mixing ITB, so I don't make any claims about digital summing vs. analog summing, but if you want to explore some options, look at:

              http://www.dangerousmusic.com/products.html

              http://www.rollmusic.com/systems/folcrom.shtml

              http://www.phoenixaudio.net/nicerizerspecs.htm

              -Rick

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by musicmakesus
                Thanks for the tips guys...

                So if I got the Apogee AD-16 converter, how would that hook into my recording chain, between which units?


                For that I think you get a firewire card for it and hook it to your computer. That's all I can remember about it on the top of my head.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by musicmakesus
                  I have 2 MOTU 828 Firewire interfaces runiing into a computer sytem and I record into Cubase SX. I am contemplating the purchase of an analog reel to reel 16 track beacause I want a more vintage warm, fat sound. I'd like to record tracks onto the tape first, then dump the audio into the digital system for editing and mixdown.

                  Does anyone know if this is the best way to go, or can I get it done just them same by just going through tube preamps instead?

                  -John


                  You have a good interface/setup... what kind of mics/preamps do you have? I use a Delta 1010 interface into Cubase and used to have the same problem... everything sounded "cold" and "sterile". At least until I started getting good mics and a good preamp. I no longer have that problem, and I'm convinced the whole "cold digital" sound is due more to that fact that most digital setups these days are home studios with cheap mics and mixer preamps.
                  "That's a matter of opinion. Like "a supermodel is less attractive than a sore-infested, poo-covered morbidly obese bald chick" is a matter of opinion."
                  - Audacity Works

                  "Ain't nobody ever walked down the street humming the sound of a microphone... it's all about 'the music'."
                  -Fletcher

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You could warm up your sound by attenuating the high frequencies and slightly boosting the low/mids!

                    War
                    Warren Dent | Owner | www.ZenProAudio.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Warhead
                      You could warm up your sound by attenuating the high frequencies and slightly boosting the low/mids!


                      Why don't you tell the kid to smoke a cigarette while he's sorting the dynamite?

                      Dull isn't "warm"... dull is dull... as tubby is tubby. The old Motown records weren't dull, the old Chess records weren't dull, the old ______ records weren't "tubby"... what they shared was a depth and a richness that wasn't lost in the translation from air to storage... they didn't run through cheap converters, they didn't use inferior software trying for "professional" results... the hardware was designed with things like headroom in mind, the hardware wasn't designed to a "price point", it was designed to serve a purpose... as long as folks insist on using inferior hardware they'll get inferior results [and I'm not just talking about inexpensive hardware... I have SSL consoles lumped right into the "inferior hardware" list].

                      There is lots of good stuff out there that is inexpensive... there is more cheap crap. There is lots of good stuff out there that is expensive and there is no shortage of expensive crap... your job, should you choose to accept it, is to plow through all of this and figure out how to make a record that best reflects your artistic visions or your interpretation of the artist's vision... what you use to get to that point is no where near as relevant as achieving the goal to the best of your ability.

                      The term "warm" is a marketing tool... the event never really occurs. Don't be snookered by marketing bull**************** is step one to achieving the goal.

                      Peace.
                      .
                      CN Fletcher

                      Professional affiliations:

                      R/E/P -- professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums... serious hobbyists welcome

                      mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
                      We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid

                      "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -A. Whitney Brown

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com


                        Why don't you tell the kid to smoke a cigarette while he's sorting the dynamite?

                        Dull isn't "warm"... dull is dull... as tubby is tubby.


                        It was kind of a joke. Hence the

                        But we're all welcome to rant I suppose. No marketing bull**************** either, I totally agree "warmth" is an overused and incorrectly applied term. But he is associating it with some kind of color I bet. You gotta admit, a slight roll off of the high end and slight boost in the low mids might actually be the sound he's looking for as he mentioned tape. I'm with you, I don't see him taking on a tape machine to acheive a sound as that might not do it either.

                        We're all dancing about architecture I suppose.

                        War
                        Warren Dent | Owner | www.ZenProAudio.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          He actually wants a "vintage warm, fat" sound, if you're counting buzzwords.

                          I've avoided posting on this thread for fear of just making some snarky comment and not helping at all, although I do have to come clean and say I use the word "fat" all the ****************en time because I'm a guitarist and we're all required to judge overdrives, boosts, amps and pickups in terms of "fatness." What are you gonna do, right?

                          That said, my suggestion, before you jump out too far with analog tape, is to try out tape (or analog) sim plug-ins for your pc. If you have the scratch, upgrading your converters would probably help you a lot, but if you're on a budget like many of us, I'm thinking your best chance of coming even close to what you're looking for is to hunt down a plug-in. Might cost $150 or so, but if it's good like the PSP stuff, you probably won't outgrow it even when you step up to better converters and outboard gear. (At least that's my experience... I've got several high end "colored" compressors and preamps which I use, and I still use the PSP Vintage Warmer plug-in fairly often, all things considered.)

                          Comment









                          Working...
                          X