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  • getting stuff to be on time?

    hi friends,
    i'm having some problems recording. i use a snowball usb mic and my laptop running audacity and playing all the instruments.
    the problem is that the drums (which i do AFTER the guitar) usually sounds kinda off. now i know about latency and lining things up, but that doesn't help because the guitar parts havve small increases/decreases in speed.

    now when i record i do not use a click track or anything.
    would doing that effectively solve my problem? the problem being the unpredictability of the guitar tracks tempo and not being able to really react on drums.


    thanks
    My Rig:
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    Fender Highway 1 Strat
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  • #2
    HEY BRO

    Yeah... a click would probably sort you out.
    My Own Machine

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    • #3
      Well, also better players will help immensely.

      That said, playing to a click while maintaining a groove is not as easy as it sounds.

      You can revert to beat quantizing, but that should be a last resort.
      Todzilla
      HUGE sound generation & capture facility
      Eno River Basin

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      • #4
        Well, also better players will help immensely.


        HEY BRO

        I think you'd need some pretty damn good players to maintain the song's tempo perfectly and consistently with no click or drums.
        My Own Machine

        Comment


        • #5
          Yup. Click track will be your friend. If the players have issues playing to a click, then perhaps use a kick drum sound or a drum loop instead of just the "tick, tick, tick..." of the typical drum track.

          If you're using Pro Tools, you can actually use Xpand to customize your click track sounds.
          Joe Gilder
          HomeStudioCorner.com

          Comment


          • #6
            HEY BRO

            I think you'd need some pretty damn good players to maintain the song's tempo perfectly and consistently with no click or drums.


            Who said no click? Good players and a click (or a groove loop) should get you results you need. Some slippage from the beat is okay if it's minor and keeps the groove going. But that's not true sloppiness.

            Stretching/Squishing drum timing shouldn't be a first resort.
            Todzilla
            HUGE sound generation & capture facility
            Eno River Basin

            Comment


            • #7
              Who said no click?


              HEY BRO

              The OP did.
              My Own Machine

              Comment


              • #8
                If you listen to Astral Weeks by Van Morrison then there is clearly no click track there. I was wondering whether they were even remotely sober enough to play. Great feely album all the same so sometimes it doesn't matter.. oke:
                "(The New Testament) is a work of crude carpentry, hammered together long after its purported events, and full of improvised attempts to make things come out right." Christopher Hitchens, R.I.P

                Comment


                • #9
                  Really you can start with just about any instrument you want, but the foundation tracks have got to have pretty consistent time. If there's too much slop, you end up having to follow mistakes with every overdub you do, and that makes things very tedious.

                  I've heard piano as a foundation. It was tracked to a click and the player was not sloppy regardless of a tempo reference. I don't think the drums would've had a problem following even without rehearsal. That's how steady it was.

                  If you can't get your starting tracks to that point of solidarity or at least close, do them over with a click. That way you won't have to memorize a bunch of small timing errors and follow them blindly - a process that can really take the fun out of recording (that said, stagnant and unmoving performances tracked too rigidly can do the same.)
                  The new blog: http://synonymmusic.blogspot.com/





                  Originally posted by Walters9515
                  yes he is SIG:

                  [...]where is where but where could where be because where is he to where ,where

                  I know u have a full blow studio where and haven't ever heard what a envelope follower is or have never used one in your life beside with a Quack which u are quacking like a rubber ducky in a tub

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                  • #10
                    Clearly there are times when a click track isn't necessary, but I don't think that's what the OP is trying to do. Particularly since he's having timing problems.

                    Like they said, use a click track, or a metronome with a headphone jack.

                    Or take any MIDI editor and a decent drum/percussion VSTi and make a drum loop to keep time with.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      HEY BRO

                      The OP did.


                      Well, if the OP holds the no click requirement as sacrosanct and can't afford Steve Gadd, then I submit his is a useless quest.
                      Todzilla
                      HUGE sound generation & capture facility
                      Eno River Basin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, if the OP holds the no click requirement as sacrosanct and can't afford Steve Gadd, then I submit his is a useless quest.


                        HEY BRO

                        I agree. I figure he was just uncomfortable using one, and decided to freeball it and see if he could line things up later. Not an easy task.

                        OP: You should lay down the drums first or learn to play with a click. I find the former easier, but either one will help you out.
                        My Own Machine

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          hi friends,
                          i'm having some problems recording. i use a snowball usb mic and my laptop running audacity and playing all the instruments.
                          the problem is that the drums (which i do AFTER the guitar) usually sounds kinda off. now i know about latency and lining things up, but that doesn't help because the guitar parts havve small increases/decreases in speed.

                          now when i record i do not use a click track or anything.
                          would doing that effectively solve my problem? the problem being the unpredictability of the guitar tracks tempo and not being able to really react on drums.


                          thanks


                          I agree that tracking your guitar to a solid rhythm track or click will help you cut a steady guitar part.

                          However, you also need to make sure your Blue Snowball isn't putting the newly recorded tracks out of time by misreporting its latency to your DAW.

                          Many interface/DAW combinations have a problem of uncorrected tracking error (ie, new tracks are not placed correctly in the timeline).

                          [But some devices -- and I had a Samson USB mic that was one -- have tracking latency that varies from session to session, making getting them placed correctly in the timeline someplace between a headache and a nightmare.]

                          This is not a problem limited to low end devices. My MOTU 828mkII and its driver end up creating overdubs (regardless of DAW) that are 358 samples behind where they should be on the timeline.

                          Anyone interested in checking his own rig can search on ping loopback test to find the procedure for checking such tracking misalignment.


                          And I was only recently confronted with this issue when, for reasons I still don't know, my DAW reset to 0 the manual tracking adjustment of 358 samples that I had entered (but only for one session, I 'corrected' it to 355 samples, my memory was hazy, but then the nest time I booted up Sonar, my DAW, the tracking adjustment was reset to the proper 358 samples, weird).

                          Anyhow, that's only 8.9 ms or so -- the time it takes sound to go around 8 feet at sea level -- but it still screwed up the timing of the playback my guitar overdub I'd just done so substantially that I was convinced the adjustment had come undone -- and I made a special point of checking and saw that the adjustment was, indeed, gone.

                          When I manually slid the track the 8.9 ms forward, everything was ducky.

                          I mean... think about that... just that tiny bit of offset was enough to make me listen and go, This is all wrong!

                          And it was.

                          ‚Äč
                          music and social stuff

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                          • #14
                            well i tried a click track and for awhile it was.....well strange, not playing to something that could change (like other musicians)

                            it was much easier
                            My Rig:
                            Fender Lonestar Stratocaster
                            Fender Highway 1 Strat
                            Traynor YCS-50
                            Boss ME-70


                            My Band:
                            https://www.facebook.com/NewportJam
                            http://www.reverbnation.com/newportjam

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Will a click track help? Does a bear... never mind. Yes.

                              Playing to a click track is hard? I'm not sure how familiar any of you guys are with music, but if playing with a consistent tempo is any more than second nature it might be time to find a new hobby. Not being a complete dufus here, I think what you actually mean is that having to hear the "tink, tink, tink" in your ear is distracting, making it difficult to play. Use a met, click track when you record, you'll get used to it. It will help your playing ability inside and out of the studio. Sorta like how wearing a seat belt might be strange if you've never worn one, but if you end up in a serious driving situation it makes it much easier to drive... and will ultimately save your life if doing the job it is primarily intended to do. Not sure how well that translates, but you get the idea.

                              Just my two cents.
                              Korg Oasys 88, SP200, Logic on a MBP

                              An amature practices until he gets it right.
                              A professional practices until he can't get it wrong!

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