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  • Signal Chain question: Recording Direct with Guitar Rack Preamp

    I'm looking to record without miking an amp or using desktop/software amp modelers. Would this be possible, correct to do this for signal chain:

    Guitar > Guitar Cable > Guitar Rack Preamp (ADA MP1 or Marshall JMP1) > Stereo Cable > Apogee Duet FireWire Interface Line In > MacBook Pro

    I don't mind about convincing tube tones, just want to make sure whatever tone it provides sounds crystal clear with no hum or line level noise.

    1. Would I need some sort of buffer between the Guitar Rack Preamp and my Interface like a DI box?

    2. What cables are the right kind to go between the Guitar Rack Preamp and the Audio Interface?
    Good Deals: Killing Nevada, this1smyne, flump, hivedestruction, jjdugan, mormik, T_REX, Audiomichael, ssmband, Junkhead, Big Pimpin' T, BlackHive, m3at

  • #2

    Guitar > Guitar Cable > Guitar Rack Preamp (ADA MP1 or Marshall JMP1) > Stereo Cable > Apogee Duet FireWire Interface Line In > MacBook Pro


    Rather not, more like that:

    Guitar > Guitar Cable > Line6 > MacBook Pro

    Comment


    • #3
      The original signal chain can work as long as cabinet emulation is added in the recording program.

      In fact... I'll be right back. I'm gonna try it with my twin tube (seymore duncan) preamp.
      www.nerolstudio.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmm not horrible, but not to my likeing either. With a different preamp I might be more ok with it:

        Preamp direct.mp3

        Signal chain was guitar--->Twin Tube Classic--->inst level input on profire--->cubase---->SIR 2 with dry signal turned off and recab impulse applied (mesa boogie OS cab). I also dropped anything under 270hz off with an eq after the fact. There isn't a lot of tone shaping on the preamp (just bass and treble).

        Also, this is why you need some sort of cab emulation. Here is the above the exact same, but with the speaker sim (SIR 2) turned off:

        No cabinet emulation.mp3
        www.nerolstudio.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Hmm not horrible, but not to my likeing either. With a different preamp I might be more ok with it:

          Preamp direct.mp3

          Signal chain was guitar--->Twin Tube Classic--->inst level input on profire--->cubase---->SIR 2 with dry signal turned off and recab impulse applied (mesa boogie OS cab). I also dropped anything under 270hz off with an eq after the fact. There isn't a lot of tone shaping on the preamp (just bass and treble).

          Also, this is why you need some sort of cab emulation. Here is the above the exact same, but with the speaker sim (SIR 2) turned off:

          No cabinet emulation.mp3


          Both sounded pretty good to me, considering it wasn't a mic on a cab.
          Thanks for trying that out, man!
          Good Deals: Killing Nevada, this1smyne, flump, hivedestruction, jjdugan, mormik, T_REX, Audiomichael, ssmband, Junkhead, Big Pimpin' T, BlackHive, m3at

          Comment


          • #6
            I use several different guitar rack preamps for recording and get stellar results. Some have effects built in and dome have a loop
            where I can plug effects in. Main thing is the ones that have speaker emulation sound the best because they arent harsh sounding.
            If the preamps you choose dont have speaker emulation/simulation, try putting a stereo reverb/echo.chorus unit between the
            preamp and the interface to give the guitar some ambiance and dial up a little room sound.

            You can play some things OK with a dry sound, but you really need to have some kind of ambiance playing lead (or at leat I do)
            You need to realize that you'll be printing that sound to the recording so you dont need any more effect then to make the instrument playable.
            You can always add more effect in the box.

            Heres sever examples. All of theres had the guitars recorded direct through several different preamps
            I have in my collection for both rythums and leads.


            http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/Cuba%20Radio%20Broadcast.mp3

            http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/Absence%20of%20Memories%20Studio%20%5BMaster%5D.wa v

            http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/Rain%20%5BMaster%5D.wav

            http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/Trance%20%5BMaster%5D.wav
            http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/Out%20On%20A%20Limb%20%5BMaster%5D.wav

            Comment


            • #7
              guitarist don't like the delay during tracking

              we record most often thru a guitar box, there are to many to mention, and the box differs from what ever the guitarist's sound has to be, the guitarist often chnges his boxes until we are all happy with the sound

              recording an amp, the sound is too boring for todays fashion. today all is designed whit whatever tool you want to use, I also use guitar processors (DSP) for other instrument, not only guitar

              Comment


              • #8

                You can play some things OK with a dry sound, but you really need to have some kind of ambiance playing lead (or at leat I do)


                That was what SIR 2 was doing in the clip I posted.

                Also: It's worth noting that you have to run your hardware buffer low in order to monitor the signal wet without obnoxious latency. This mean a stout computer and hardware that doesn't suck (this sentence wasn't aimed at you, I know you know this).
                www.nerolstudio.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  recording an amp, the sound is too boring for todays fashion.


                  This is news to me.

                  I always record an amp for the final product.
                  www.nerolstudio.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That was what SIR 2 was doing in the clip I posted.

                    Also: It's worth noting that you have to run your hardware buffer low in order to monitor the signal wet without obnoxious latency. This mean a stout computer and hardware that doesn't suck (this sentence wasn't aimed at you, I know you know this).


                    I always run my interface with zero latency monotoring. I dont run any software effects tracking.
                    I have my latency set for about 1 second so I can run more effects mixing.

                    The SIR is a sample based reverb plugin which does require allot of resources to run, and you do
                    have to listen to the processed sound tracking which accounts for your latency. The Sir was a real
                    resource hog when I tried it. I found Sonars Perfect Space which is the same kind of
                    sample based reverb to run many more times efficiantly. I also have a Voxengo version
                    thats very good on resources too.

                    You may want to go to a hardware solution and dig up a good used Lexicon, Alesis, or digitec reverb/echo/chorus rack unit and
                    run it after the guitar preamp. Guitar doesnt need super high fidelity and even a 16bit unit like an Alesis Multiverb will sound
                    very good on guitar. You can pick the units up for around $50 all day on EBay.

                    The one Alesis will take a mono or stereo input and give you an emulated stereo output.
                    Others can let you adjust different reverb and delay times which will let you adjust a really
                    big sound for the guitar. As I said you dont need much and if you wanted a completely dry track you
                    could always send the reverb directly to the monitors instead of the interface, a trick often used for vocals
                    so the vocals are recorded dry but the singer hears reverb when they're singing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is news to me.

                      I always record an amp for the final product.




                      maybe one of the difference between you and me is, my clients expect a product which sells

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Woah now amps don't sell? I really do learn something new every day. Time to ditch the mesa boogie, peavey and fender and sell my soul to fractal.
                        www.nerolstudio.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Also, I hate reverb on guitars. The impulse I was running was the space created from a close miked guitar cab, not a room. I wasn't aware algorythmic processors had such a thing. It's true Sir 2 uses a bit more cpu over conventional convolution reverbs (especially when using a sir file impulse) but in my experience it sounds better. I have reverence (cubase plugin) and IR1 (mellowmuse). No idea why, and it doesn't matter, but sir sounds better to me running the same impulse files.
                          www.nerolstudio.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Your suggestion on hardware is never a bad idea though. I have seriously thought about a reverb unit like one of the lexicons because of it's ethernet control and S/pdif connectivity.
                            www.nerolstudio.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ^^ Yup. So long as you can imatate some live room sound you can work the resonance to sustain notes
                              like you would playing live. Its a whole lot easier dialing what you want too. Playing leasd you can dial in
                              anything you want from tame to extreme. I picked up a dual expression midi board for my ART unit and
                              I can do all kinds of echo swells, wahs, panning and all that stuff while I'm tracking. Theres a difference
                              adding the effects live as you're playing vs applying them afterwards. If you have a tap tempo happening
                              to the beat its natureal to play leads to the echo using 1/4, 1/3 1/8 1/6 etc notes played to that
                              single tempo. On other stuff the notes may carry out longer as you leave a note and change positions
                              on the neck. Try doing the same stuff dry and its like choke city. you have to imagine what will happen when you add
                              the effects later.

                              Comment













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