Harmony Central Forums
Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Software to reduce tempo, leave all else same

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse









X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Software to reduce tempo, leave all else same

    I always tell a producer/engineer, "be aware of tempo, don't let me lay down a track too fast!" My natural tendency seems to do that. Sometimes, I will record a song and even after providing that warning, once it's done (and after I have agreed on the tempo in studio), I'll think, oh no, it's still a bit too fast. Someone told me he has software that can fix that and he said he cannot tell the difference and he is a pro. Any idea what it is? This sure would save me some money from having to do a track over. Does it work with all tracks, including vocal? I assume it keeps pitch the same. And, how much can it reduce the tempo? I do singer-songwriter stuff, original material based around me playing acoustic guitar and my vocal. Leaning toward Americana, acoustic instruments. Other instruments on top of that for some songs but a few full band songs.
    <div class="signaturecontainer">:::<br />
    <br />
    Bill</div>

  • #2
    Reaper (which is free, and cool) has a speed control thing, I don't think it changed pitch, only the speed. It was like a sliding fader-type control, I believe it went from *incredibly* slow to *astoundingly* fast, and everything in between...!
    <a href="http://www.grubbygrooves.com">GrubbyGrooves</a><br><br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/GrubbyGrooves">GrubbyGrooves</a> always free on YouTube

    Comment


    • #3






      Quote Originally Posted by Randy G
      View Post

      I'm sorry, barring you not playing to a click track, using a conductor or having someone hit you with a bat during the performance, there is nothing an engineer or producer can do to keep YOU from speeding up, despite all your "warnings".



      Yes there is software to slow the tempo and preserve pitch. But the further the target tempos are, the less effective and realistic sounding it is. And if you tempo fluctuates multiple times, this will be harder to fix. And it will be more time consuming and expensive to fix.




      That's not what I mean, I'm not talking about starting out at one tempo and speeding up. I'm talking about recording the song at, say, 98bpm and then realizing it's a tad too fast; perhaps 94bpm (pick a number) is ideal.
      <div class="signaturecontainer">:::<br />
      <br />
      Bill</div>

      Comment


      • #4
        Time compression expansion will do it, but even with the highest quality algorithm, you will lose quality and possibly have artifacts. Sounds like Reaper has it built-in. So do Live and Pro Tools.



        See this thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/maste...-software.html



        If you don't have a DAW, maybe try the standalone demo of iZotope RX2 (assuming it is time bombed instead of inserting silence in the demo version or something like that).

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm sure there's others out there, but the only ones I am familiar with and have used are Propellerheads Recycle 2.0, as well as Flex Time in Logic Pro 9...
          <div class="signaturecontainer"><div class="bbcode_container">
          <div class="bbcode_quote">
          <div class="quote_container">
          <div class="bbcode_quote_container"></div>

          <div class="bbcode_postedby">
          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>co&amp;cafan808</strong>
          <a href="showthread.php?p=37036417#post37036417" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
          </div>
          <div class="message">chevybusa ****************in delivers the lulz!!!</div>

          </div>
          </div>
          </div> <font color="Blue"><font face="Palatino Linotype">Using and abusing Reason 4.0 (with tons of ReFills) and Logic 9 (with tons of soft synths, VSTi's and plug-ins) <br />
          via <br />
          a Yamaha S80 (with 2 FC7's, an FC5, an FC3, and a BC3a) and a Behringer BCR2000 <br />
          on <br />
          a 4GB 2.53GHz Intel Core Duo Mac Mini <br />
          with <br />
          AKG K77 headphones or M-Audio BX5a Deluxe monitors.</font></font><br />
          <br />
          <div class="bbcode_container">
          <div class="bbcode_quote">
          <div class="quote_container">
          <div class="bbcode_quote_container"></div>

          <div class="bbcode_postedby">
          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>OldGuitarPlayer</strong>
          <a href="showthread.php?p=46704841#post46704841" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
          </div>
          <div class="message">Ahhh...John Cage. The ultimate troll.</div>

          </div>
          </div>
          </div> <div class="bbcode_container">
          <div class="bbcode_quote">
          <div class="quote_container">
          <div class="bbcode_quote_container"></div>

          <div class="bbcode_postedby">
          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Anderton</strong>
          <a href="showthread.php?p=45501382#post45501382" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
          </div>
          <div class="message">Just remember...machines don't kill music, people do.</div>

          </div>
          </div>
          </div> </div>

          Comment


          • #6
            Most DAWs have Time stretch and pitch change built in. You can choose one or the other or both

            if you want. Since it does resample in the process there will be quality loss. Its the price you pay

            for not having it right to begin with. My best suggestion is buy or download a metronome.

            Write up your music or lyrics and find the best tempo for the songs and write it down on

            your cheat sheet. That way you'll always have the tempo you need for the song.



            If that tempo then doesnt feel good to you when it comes time to record, then thats

            a psychological thing you have to work out. If you cant program your own internal clock

            so it has a good groove for you to play, then you are out of touch with that part of your

            playing skills. Music is all about keeping up with the tempo. Occasionally things click and

            your internal clock and the external clock are in sync and it inspires you in the process.



            Other times its a matter of slugging it out the whole way fighting to keep you're playing in

            sync with the rhythm. Its only the finished results that matter, not how you feel playing it.

            I cant count the times I've recorded parts I thought for sure sucked because I wasnt feeling

            the groove only to find out, the track kicked ass when I heard it later. Other times, It felt

            great playing the part only to find it sucked balls listening to it play back.



            Occasionally, it both feels good and kicks butt. Dont ask me why. I been playing and recording for

            over 47 years and it still mystifies me. The body has a bio rhythm and sometimes it matches the music

            and you capture glorious things in a recording. If you get real luckey you may get one in ten that has both.

            Otherwise, trust what your engineer is hearing. If he hears a good groove, thats all that matters. It may be

            unconfortable for you but music isnt about making the musician confortable, its about making the listener confortable.





            One other thing. Many live performers become dependant on playing to a live audience.

            The audiences responce is what gives the musician their groove. The musicians inner

            eye is focused on the audience. When they go into a studio and theres no audience,

            their inner eye focuses inward and thats when things like tempo and tuning issues

            crop up and become over amplified obsticles. I know, I battel with the same issues.



            My best advice is to redirect your concentration when you record. Dont expect

            the engineer to be thrilled by your playing. First off, he's buisy doing his job,

            and second he's heard it all and isnt going to be getting a thrill up his leg.



            Turn your focus outward vs inward. The mic in front of your amp can be one.

            Its a single ear that represents a million listeners and its the key item your

            are playing to. If the mic likes what it hears, so will everyone else. Other options

            are to close your eyes and imagine yourself in front of 10,000 people playing.



            Another might be finding a single point in the room and placing your

            complete concentration on it. Maybe standing up playing in front of a mic

            like you do live will do it. Playing sitting down not only makes the neck feel

            different but moving around in front of the amp sounds different to the ears and also

            gives the guitar different tones as you use the speakers to reflect off the body and

            give you different overtones.



            There are many other ways of redirecting your concentration. Many you can develop on your own.

            Main thing is, if you are finding the tempo of a few beats off unconfortable, then you know you are

            too focused on yourself and you need to change that focus and get beyond it. If its a matter of being

            way too fast where you cant play the notes or so slow its dragging you down, then you do what you have to do.



            If its close to the original tempo, and it still feels off, try working on another song and come back to it when you're

            in the mood. Pacing yourself recording is just like pacing yourself playing live. A set list is designed to have peaks

            and valleys and if you're conditioned to those, incorporate those same peaks and valleys in your recording session

            and you'll find things flow much more smoothly.

            Comment


            • #7






              Quote Originally Posted by WRGKMC
              View Post

              Most DAWs have Time stretch and pitch change built in. You can choose one or the other or both

              if you want. Since it does resample in the process there will be quality loss. Its the price you pay

              for not having it right to begin with. My best suggestion is buy or download a metronome.

              Write up your music or lyrics and find the best tempo for the songs and write it down on

              your cheat sheet. That way you'll always have the tempo you need for the song.



              If that tempo then doesnt feel good to you when it comes time to record, then thats

              a psychological thing you have to work out. If you cant program your own internal clock

              so it has a good groove for you to play, then you are out of touch with that part of your

              playing skills. Music is all about keeping up with the tempo. Occasionally things click and

              your internal clock and the external clock are in sync and it inspires you in the process.



              Other times its a matter of slugging it out the whole way fighting to keep you're playing in

              sync with the rhythm. Its only the finished results that matter, not how you feel playing it.

              I cant count the times I've recorded parts I thought for sure sucked because I wasnt feeling

              the groove only to find out, the track kicked ass when I heard it later. Other times, It felt

              great playing the part only to find it sucked balls listening to it play back.



              Occasionally, it both feels good and kicks butt. Dont ask me why. I been playing and recording for

              over 47 years and it still mystifies me. The body has a bio rhythm and sometimes it matches the music

              and you capture glorious things in a recording. If you get real luckey you may get one in ten that has both.

              Otherwise, trust what your engineer is hearing. If he hears a good groove, thats all that matters. It may be

              unconfortable for you but music isnt about making the musician confortable, its about making the listener confortable.





              One other thing. Many live performers become dependant on playing to a live audience.

              The audiences responce is what gives the musician their groove. The musicians inner

              eye is focused on the audience. When they go into a studio and theres no audience,

              their inner eye focuses inward and thats when things like tempo and tuning issues

              crop up and become over amplified obsticles. I know, I battel with the same issues.



              My best advice is to redirect your concentration when you record. Dont expect

              the engineer to be thrilled by your playing. First off, he's buisy doing his job,

              and second he's heard it all and isnt going to be getting a thrill up his leg.



              Turn your focus outward vs inward. The mic in front of your amp can be one.

              Its a single ear that represents a million listeners and its the key item your

              are playing to. If the mic likes what it hears, so will everyone else. Other options

              are to close your eyes and imagine yourself in front of 10,000 people playing.



              Another might be finding a single point in the room and placing your

              complete concentration on it. Maybe standing up playing in front of a mic

              like you do live will do it. Playing sitting down not only makes the neck feel

              different but moving around in front of the amp sounds different to the ears and also

              gives the guitar different tones as you use the speakers to reflect off the body and

              give you different overtones.



              There are many other ways of redirecting your concentration. Many you can develop on your own.

              Main thing is, if you are finding the tempo of a few beats off unconfortable, then you know you are

              too focused on yourself and you need to change that focus and get beyond it. If its a matter of being

              way too fast where you cant play the notes or so slow its dragging you down, then you do what you have to do.



              If its close to the original tempo, and it still feels off, try working on another song and come back to it when you're

              in the mood. Pacing yourself recording is just like pacing yourself playing live. A set list is designed to have peaks

              and valleys and if you're conditioned to those, incorporate those same peaks and valleys in your recording session

              and you'll find things flow much more smoothly.




              You always amaze me with your in-depth answers, you are amazing! FWIW, even before I read your answer today, yesterday, I found an online metronome and this morning, I worked with three originals. I found what seems to be the ideal tempo and wrote it on my lead sheet. Simple! And, what you said in your answer.



              Curious, have you ever 'fixed' a slightly-too-fast tempo with software?



              Thanks everyone with your responses.
              <div class="signaturecontainer">:::<br />
              <br />
              Bill</div>

              Comment


              • #8
                I know this software has the tempo adjustment and just using the video as reference to it tempo reduction without degrading the audio.




                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=100cSAhNdqg

                Comment


                • #9






                  Quote Originally Posted by LiveMusic
                  View Post

                  You always amaze me with your in-depth answers, you are amazing! FWIW, even before I read your answer today, yesterday, I found an online metronome and this morning, I worked with three originals. I found what seems to be the ideal tempo and wrote it on my lead sheet. Simple! And, what you said in your answer.



                  Curious, have you ever 'fixed' a slightly-too-fast tempo with software?

                  Thanks everyone with your responses.




                  Thanks. I just been doing it for a long time and I'm an electronic tech by trade.



                  Yes I've fixed a few but they were just demo grade stuff to begin with.

                  I basically applied the time stretch to a completed song that was dragging

                  to speed it up. You could hear the dgital artifacts mainly in the high frequency.



                  If you have to choose, speeding up is better than slowing down because bits are removed during resampling,

                  simular to what happens when you down sample to an MP3. Slowing down ads bits of noise to fill in.





                  If you're playing cover tunes you can download a BPM program. It will scan your song collection

                  and tell you want average tempo the song was played at. They work about 90% of the time so long as

                  there arent allot of breaks in the song. It counts the transients and gives you the average beat per minute,

                  and it can give you a list you can print out for an entire song collection. I did my whole collection of MP3 cover tunes

                  and my original tunes I have saved on my drive. You'd be surprised how many songs are recorded between 90~140 BPS.



                  After awhile, you learn to judge the tempo just buy hearing the music.

                  Comment



                  Working...
                  X