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  • What does Flat Frequency Response mean??

    OK, trying to get this down...please tell me if Im understanding this right

    Flat frequency response means that a speaker or headphones does not make any frequency from a source material sound any different than what is actually there (no "humps")- Flat frequency response headphones will not be "bass-boost" headphones in other words, they will be very accurate phones reproducing exactly what is on tape/digital. You will hear exactly what is there on tape/digital-

    Is this correct?

    what is the difference between FLAT freq. response and EXTENDED frequency response? One guy was saying that the way to know that headphones/monitors are accurate is to look at how EXTENDED the frequency response is (for instance, if a pair of studio headphones has a range from 5 hz to 30Mhz, that means it will be especially accurate in the range of human hearing, because it is accurate BEYOND what humans can hear

    Sorry to bump this up again but I am trying to get a concept of how to know that what Im mixing/EQing is accurate through the phones Im going to buy

    I hope somebody gets to respond, that'd be cool

    Kapp

  • #2
    Kapp,


    Yes, exactly. Whatever goes in comes out, with little or no variation at frequencies within the audible range.


    That is simply not true. There is no advantage to being able to handle frequencies outside the range you can hear. As proof, audio CDs are limited to just above 20 KHz. Have you ever heard a CD that sounds really, really, REALLY good? Of course you have. Which proves that 16 bits and 20 KHz response is capable of the exact same high quality you hear on those great sounding CDs.

    --Ethan
    The acoustic treatment experts
    Buy my DVD

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    • #3
      that's exactly what I thought...cool, this means I know more than the Guitar Center dude

      Comment


      • #4
        no diss on guitar center , that was just a joke, my bad for dissing...it's a cool store. The Southern Cal guitar centers have a lot more, er, sober workers, then some others

        OK, one last question...Beyer Dynamic Headphones DT-770's

        more accurate than Sony MDR 7506 ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Kapp,


          No need to apologize! If the GC salesman told you an extended response is important, and you were skeptical, then you do know more than him.


          I have no idea. How do they sound?

          I use a pair of $10 Sony MDR-201 "open air" style headphones, and they're great. Of course I don't try to mix with them! But you can't mix well with headphones anyway.

          To me headphones are useful for only two things: Being able to listen really carefully for clicks and breath noises and other such stuff while editing, and for monitoring while overdubbing acoustic instruments. Neither of these require high accuracy.

          When does headphone accuracy even matter anyway? Why does anyone need headphones that cost $100 or more?

          --Ethan
          The acoustic treatment experts
          Buy my DVD

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ethan Winer
            Why does anyone need headphones that cost $100 or more?

            --Ethan


            because they aren't as smart as you?

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            • #7
              my reason for trying to get high end phones is that actual monitors are not something I'll be able to utilize, due to where I live right now and the whole "Turn down that noise" issue (renting a room)

              I'll just get the sony's and save myself around $100.00, the beyer dynamics are like $200.00

              eventually I will invest in some actual monitors

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ethan Winer
                Kapp,


                That is simply not true. There is no advantage to being able to handle frequencies outside the range you can hear. As proof, audio CDs are limited to just above 20 KHz. Have you ever heard a CD that sounds really, really, REALLY good? Of course you have. Which proves that 16 bits and 20 KHz response is capable of the exact same high quality you hear on those great sounding CDs.

                --Ethan
                Some would argue that reproducing harmonics over 20KHz does make a difference. Research has been and still is being carried out i do believe.
                In the same way that we can't hear but can feel frequencies below 20Hz (7Hz anyone?) researchers believe that we might be able to detect >20KHZ without being able to hear it.

                ...But 30MHZ sounds a bit wrong for headphones.
                www.seven-shades.co.uk

                Stay alert. Goats are deceitful and can hide just about anywhere.

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                • #9
                  Chump,


                  Yeah, well some would argue that Elvis is still alive and working as a soda jerk in a drive through restaurant. Others would argue that crop circles were created by aliens. I need far more compelling evidence than merely "some would argue."


                  Yes, and the firm conclusion is that in a proper double blind test, nobody - and I mean nobody - can discern content much beyond 20 KHz.

                  --Ethan
                  The acoustic treatment experts
                  Buy my DVD

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                  • #10
                    The Beyers' are better than the sonys' in my experience... actually... beyer headphones are the best I've ever used.

                    But the 770's seem to boost a lot of low. I found their 250's to have the Flattest (there you go) response. They are simply grand.

                    And flat frequency response is a tricky thing to play with. This since the Human ear doesn't register sound "flat" Your ears are a lot less sensitive to low frequencies than the frequencies around what make speach intelligible to us. That's why there's a loudness button on a lot of consumer amps... that's there cause when the sound is "soft" a lot of the bass will drop away, so if you have your sound "soft" with the loudness on, you can still hear the low bits. Though a lot of people think it's just a nice boost when they have them on loud

                    And the thing about higher frequencies than 20khz. Well the way I see it is... you may not hear it directly but those quick waves do of course influense the shape of the slower waves that you can hear... so though it's only a little bit of color... it does matter. Not that you "need" it. But it's a nice thing to have.
                    http://www.macouno.com

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                    • #11
                      LC,


                      Sorry, but once you understand how sound waves combine and travel through the air you'll realize that makes no sense at all.

                      This was settled by Fourier many many years ago.

                      --Ethan
                      The acoustic treatment experts
                      Buy my DVD

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                      • #12
                        Ethan: I rather figured I did... If you know of an article online that explanes that... can you pm me a link please? I'm always interested in learning.
                        http://www.macouno.com

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                        • #13
                          Damn Ethan, I wish you had told me this before we bothered with the "loading" switch on the Great River MP-2NV... see the i/o transformers are normally not loaded... which provides a 3db increase at 54 kHz... which results in a more "open" "airy" texture to the audio. By hitting that switch you add the loading to the transformers which gives a flat frequency response... and also changes the character of the audio.

                          There has been debate on how we perceive audio outside the range of human hearing for some time now... but having heard the differences, I really don't think that there is a whole lot of room for debate.

                          Yes, a CD will not be able to reproduce audio over 20 kHz... however, the effects of stuff that occured in the original production over 20 kHz are palpable even with CD quality sound... above and beyond that, you have the time based phase anomalies that occur when you roll off a circuit to high or too low... ideally, a unit should be flat, or relatively flat from like 3 or 4 Hz to like 150 - 250 kHz to really give you the clearest audio it can... this is one of the things that makes the expensive stuff expensive as it ain't cheap to achieve that kind of frequency response.
                          .
                          CN Fletcher

                          Professional affiliations:

                          R/E/P -- professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums... serious hobbyists welcome

                          mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
                          We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid

                          "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -A. Whitney Brown

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                          • #14
                            LC,


                            To fully grasp all of this requires more than one or two web links. But you can start at my Articles page:

                            www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

                            In particular see "Dispelling Popular Audio Myths" and maybe some of the electronic circuit articles. Perhaps most important, see my Critical Thinking piece near the bottom of the page. Once you understand the points made there, you'll be able to wade through most other nonsense claims you come across.

                            --Ethan
                            The acoustic treatment experts
                            Buy my DVD

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                            • #15
                              Fletcher,


                              Whatever effect changing the transformer load may offer, what you are hearing is its affect within the audible band. The response may well change at 54 KHz too, but that ain't what you're hearing!


                              What "stuff?" Please explain the mechanism by which content beyond 20 KHz affects what's encoded onto a standard audio CD.


                              See www.ethanwiner.com/phase.html

                              --Ethan
                              The acoustic treatment experts
                              Buy my DVD

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