Members navigate40 Posted June 20, 2018 Members Share Posted June 20, 2018 Hello I have a Martin DRS2 and Breedlove Stage acoustics. They Sound great unplugged, but when plugged in, both are a bit brassy (the Breedlove more so). There is only a volume and tone control, inside the sound hole of both. The tone control does not seem to do a whole lot on the LT Baggs electronics of the Breedlove. Currently, these going into a Fender Champ 40 amp with a Cannibis Rex 12" speaker, when I use an amp. Probably not the best acoustic amp...but it is what I have for now. I would like to improve this sound. Mic'ing is probably the best option, but would like to explore other options. Have read about and listened to some compressor pedals. Like the LR Baggs Align Session. It is made for an acoustic and is $179 new. The TC Electronic Forcefield is $60 new and seems to get good reviews. So, the questions: 1. Would a compressor tame the plugged in sound and give me a more mellow and pleasing acoustic sound? 2. Do you have to use a pedal made for acoustic guitars, or would any compressor pedal do (assuming it works well)? 3. Would the TC Electronic be a good choice? I am not a pro, do not currently gig. But, would like to play with others, and who knows, there may be a gig in the future, or maybe a jam session with some kind people somewhere. And, I am more used to electrics than acoustics. Have two tele's and an LP. The pedal might be good for those too...and that would be really great... and contribute to the reason to get a pedal. ThanksJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrHarryReems Posted June 20, 2018 Members Share Posted June 20, 2018 YMMV, but I always have a compressor on my acoustic when I'm playing live. I used to use the Xotic SP compressor, which I really loved. Now, I'm using a different compressor with a similar circuit that's built into another pedal. Honestly, I preferred the SP. Compressors can be so different from one another. I'd suggest trying a few out if you can. If you order from Sweetwater, they have a great return policy if you buy one you don't prefer, you can send it back with no hassles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members navigate40 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Members Share Posted June 20, 2018 Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it. It does seem that they are popular. And, seems as though many recordings use compression in post production. So, now thinking about which pedal. The one referenced above seems the least expensive good one. But there are some reports that it renders a darker tone. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Would like to keep this under $100...or would just have to go for a used LR Baggs. So....from the response above, any compressor pedal could potentially be used for both an acoustic and electric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted June 20, 2018 Members Share Posted June 20, 2018 Personally I'd recommend a proper amp. A guitar amp has a frequency response made for an electric guitar. An amp made for acoustic guitar is best but a bass or keyboard amp will work nicely. I checked your profile for your location and found a couple on CraigsList that might be near you:Roland Acoustic Chorus $250, 30 Watts X 2: https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/msg/d/roland-acoustic-chorus-amp-ac/6590805225.html.Fender Rumble 100 $80, 100 Watts: https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/msg/d/fender-bass-amplification/6605165865.html.Fender Rumble 100 $100, 100 Watts: https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/msg/d/bass-amp-rumble-100/6594326329.html. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted June 21, 2018 Members Share Posted June 21, 2018 The answer is Tonedexter. That'll make your pickup sound like a properly miked acoustic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrHarryReems Posted June 21, 2018 Members Share Posted June 21, 2018 Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it. It does seem that they are popular. And, seems as though many recordings use compression in post production. So, now thinking about which pedal. The one referenced above seems the least expensive good one. But there are some reports that it renders a darker tone. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Would like to keep this under $100...or would just have to go for a used LR Baggs. So....from the response above, any compressor pedal could potentially be used for both an acoustic and electric? Yes, any compressor pedal can be used for basically anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members navigate40 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2018 Great info ...thank you all. An acoustic AMP is a great idea. Used amps are everywhere and quite cheap, considering. And I could use another amp for the mic. I see that many acoustic amps are two channel...so...could mic the guitar and mic me (if anyone were to ever invite me to gig Add an inexpensive compressor pedal, even just for some tone shaping. And I could have the best of all worlds. Now...just a group to jam with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrHarryReems Posted June 21, 2018 Members Share Posted June 21, 2018 Great info ...thank you all. An acoustic AMP is a great idea. Used amps are everywhere and quite cheap, considering. And I could use another amp for the mic. I see that many acoustic amps are two channel...so...could mic the guitar and mic me (if anyone were to ever invite me to gig Add an inexpensive compressor pedal, even just for some tone shaping. And I could have the best of all worlds. Now...just a group to jam with.... I'm not going to lie... A nice acoustic with a Fishman Loudbox mini changed my life. To this day, I still use the loudbox as a monitor in the studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members navigate40 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2018 Very nice. I was looking at the Behringer Ultracoustic ACX450. 2 Channel. 45W, 1x8 speaker. An ignorant question but...what makes an acoustic amp better for playing an acoustic guitar through it, than a regular electric guitar amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted June 21, 2018 Members Share Posted June 21, 2018 Very nice. I was looking at the Behringer Ultracoustic ACX450. 2 Channel. 45W, 1x8 speaker. An ignorant question but...what makes an acoustic amp better for playing an acoustic guitar through it, than a regular electric guitar amp? A regular guitar amp colors the sound. It has a frequency response that emphasizes the upper midrange, hence the "brassy" sound you're getting from your Champ 40. An acoustic amp is more like a mini PA, designed to reproduce the full range of sound faithfully. You'll notice that acoustic amps often have mike inputs. The Behringer would probably serve you well but if you can spend a bit more look at the Fender Acoustasonic 90. The Vox VX50 or Ashdown Woodsman Classic might be worth a look too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted June 21, 2018 Members Share Posted June 21, 2018 Personally I'd recommend a proper amp. A guitar amp has a frequency response made for an electric guitar. An amp made for acoustic guitar is best but a bass or keyboard amp will work nicely. I checked your profile for your location and found a couple on CraigsList that might be near you: Roland Acoustic Chorus $250, 30 Watts X 2: https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/msg/d/roland-acoustic-chorus-amp-ac/6590805225.html. Fender Rumble 100 $80, 100 Watts: https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/msg/d/fender-bass-amplification/6605165865.html. Fender Rumble 100 $100, 100 Watts: https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/msg/d/bass-amp-rumble-100/6594326329.html. I would also recommend a real acoustic amp. For every one interested Look at some of the Fishman amps, the Roland acoustic amps, and the AER stuff. The new Fender stuff is nice too, but not all of it. I have used a SWR Cal Blonde and the Fishman Loudbox Performer. I also have a Roland AC 33, but I was thinking about selling the AC 33 and getting the Fishman mini Charge. A compressor is just going to squash your tone, and give you some sustain when the compress releases. I use a Fishman Spectra DI and LR Baggs Venue. Which gives me the hottest and the best signal going into the amp or PA. I like them both, but the Spectra DI has a built-in compressor and can make your 000 sound like a dreadnaught. You pick the mic and guitar. So it's both a preamp and modeling pedal. I tend to use the LR Baggs venue more on my mandolin. The Martin I play gets the Spectra, and then goes into the amp or PA, and sometimes both. You'll love it. I have used mine for almost 10 years. I'm not big on the tuner, but it works. The anti feedback thing on the Fishman is just what the doctor ordered and is amazing. Fishman and Baggs know acoustic instruments. Trust me on this one. Folks spend a ton of money on electric guitar sounds and tones, but getting a killer sound out of an acoustic in a live venue is even tougher. [video=youtube;ctIB-0_2PLI] [video=youtube;1sAGqn3Tl7E] https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Aura-Spectrum-User-Guide.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted June 22, 2018 Members Share Posted June 22, 2018 If you want a great little product for little cash, I suggest a Zoom A2 acoustic effects pedal (big pedal, but what the hey). Body styles, mic placement and choices, reverb, chorus, etc, all sorts of fun things that can probably overcome whatever issue you have, even a decent built in drummer. GC has a used one for $60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted June 22, 2018 Members Share Posted June 22, 2018 I think you can blow a lot of money trying to process the sound, but with a Tonedexter straight into the PA with a touch of reverb sounds like a studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted June 22, 2018 Members Share Posted June 22, 2018 The Barber Tone Press (at barberelectronics.com) was the first compression pedal to feature a blend knob. It continues to be highly regarded and can be found used for under $100. It's good for both acoustic and electric guitars. The blend knob lets you retain as much or as little of the original signal as you want - a life saver for players who don't want to sacrifice expression to tame the output. BUT - I'm not sure that any compressor will dial down brassiness. If you're talking about tone, it won't. If you're talking about volume spikes, it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted June 22, 2018 Moderators Share Posted June 22, 2018 to summarize: A compressor will not solve your 'brassiness'.The Champ 40 is about as crappy an amp as Fender makes, IMHO, and is not designed to work with acoustic guitars. I suppose one could, eventually, after much trial and error, find an acceptable setting for acoustic...maybe.A dedicated acoustic guitar amp will make a huge difference. I suggest, though, that you forget any amplifier that says Behringer on it, as it will wind up being a great disappointment.A good DI pedal may help, as will something like the TC Body Rez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted June 22, 2018 Members Share Posted June 22, 2018 The Barber Tone Press (at barberelectronics.com) was the first compression pedal to feature a blend knob. It continues to be highly regarded and can be found used for under $100. It's good for both acoustic and electric guitars. The blend knob lets you retain as much or as little of the original signal as you want - a life saver for players who don't want to sacrifice expression to tame the output. BUT - I'm not sure that any compressor will dial down brassiness. If you're talking about tone, it won't. If you're talking about volume spikes, it will. I have a Barber Tone Press on my electric pedalboard set up. They are 100 bucks used. The Fishman Spectra DI is more $$$, but even better on acoustic instruments. The blend knob on the Fishman allows you to blend the original signal with one of the chosen guitar/ Mic settings. I run it to taste, somewhere between 10-2 o'clock. https://reverb.com/p/fishman-aura-spectrum-di?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvLLZBRDrARIsADU6ojBFbSVGNWYL0ZU2t7XTHVP3mM22WkyL8V6VfZqHkkmbjINJFLszhEkaAh_-EALw_wcB&hfid=13239218 [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"image_110179.jpg","data-attachmentid":32261363}[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members navigate40 Posted June 23, 2018 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2018 Thanks again. I have to agree about the Champ 40...not the best, even for electric. It was just the right price at the time. Even changing to a C. Rex speaker has not helped much. Chasing acoustic sound via pedals through this amp will be an expensive disappointment, I have no doubt. So...will shelve that idea for now...and look for an acoustic amp in the future. Pedals another time. But, fortunately, I can play my acoustics unamplified for now...so no big rush. Dissapointed to hear that Behringer is not a good make...it got good reviews and some reviews stated that the company had their own factory in China. [added: being frugal...I wonder if it would be better to run an electric through an acoustic amp than the other way around?? I could easily trade the Champ 40 for an acoustic amp] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted June 23, 2018 Members Share Posted June 23, 2018 Thanks again. I have to agree about the Champ 40...not the best, even for electric. It was just the right price at the time. Even changing to a C. Rex speaker has not helped much. Chasing acoustic sound via pedals through this amp will be an expensive disappointment, I have no doubt. So...will shelve that idea for now...and look for an acoustic amp in the future. Pedals another time. But, fortunately, I can play my acoustics unamplified for now...so no big rush. Dissapointed to hear that Behringer is not a good make...it got good reviews and some reviews stated that the company had their own factory in China. [added: being frugal...I wonder if it would be better to run an electric through an acoustic amp than the other way around?? I could easily trade the Champ 40 for an acoustic amp] Behringer is a company that reverse engineers other products and then produces them in their own packaging (cabs, boxes, etc.) via cheap manufacturing. To say that they produce an inferior product is to imply that because they are cheaper than other retail designs, they're of a lesser quality. I think that's a stretch of the truth by people not really in-the-know and therefore unable to qualify their remarks. But, compressing an acoustic? If that were something of a qualitative effect for the acoustic sound amps would come with it on board. As it is now, amps tend towards either reverb or chorus to give the acoustic sound depth. One of my amps has chorus, the other reverb. I can't imagine compression to be an enhancement of acoustic sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members navigate40 Posted June 24, 2018 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2018 Great info guys, and much appreciated. Have been playing for a number of years, but have not gotten into acoustics until relatively recently. And learning a great deal more about the electronic aspects of both. I know what I need to do...get an acoustic amp...but this is now also a major experiment for me. I think a compressor is not going to be worthwhile. So, a new piece of information. I have three acoustic guitars, a Martin DRS2 (love this), Breedlove stage Concert Cocobolo (all solid tone woods)and a very inexpensive Fender Sonoran (the guitar for …..if it is raining out or I don't really like you.... The Martin has Fishman, with a vol and tone control in the sound hole. The tone control does not do much. The Breedlove has LR Baggs, with a vol and tone control on the sound hole, tone does not do much. The Fender...has Fishman controls on the side, with a 3 band EQ...bass, treb and mid. Of the three...the ...inexpensive Sonoran....sounds the best ...by far. In fact, sounds very good through the Champ 40. I can get the controls (the amp's bass and treb...it has no mid control) to make the Breedlove sound OK. The Martin still sounds brassy. And interestingly....the Fender has the worst (relatively) strings on it. Newtown 11's. The Martin has D'Addario 11's, the Breedlove has D'A 12's. The Martin sounds fantastic unplugged. The Breedlove very good. The Fender, OK. Quick experiment: If I turn up the mid Fender control....the tone is that awful brassy sound. Turn the mid and treb controls on the Fender to 9 O'Clock, with the bass at 12 or above...and the tone is very good. Cannot do the above with the Martin or Breedlove...since that do not have onboard EQ. SO....does this mean than an EQ would be a better pedal to get for these?? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted June 24, 2018 Members Share Posted June 24, 2018 Great info guys, and much appreciated. Have been playing for a number of years, but have not gotten into acoustics until relatively recently. And learning a great deal more about the electronic aspects of both. I know what I need to do...get an acoustic amp...but this is now also a major experiment for me. I think a compressor is not going to be worthwhile. So, a new piece of information. I have three acoustic guitars, a Martin DRS2 (love this), Breedlove stage Concert Cocobolo (all solid tone woods)and a very inexpensive Fender Sonoran (the guitar for …..if it is raining out or I don't really like you.... The Martin has Fishman, with a vol and tone control in the sound hole. The tone control does not do much. The Breedlove has LR Baggs, with a vol and tone control on the sound hole, tone does not do much. The Fender...has Fishman controls on the side, with a 3 band EQ...bass, treb and mid. Of the three...the ...inexpensive Sonoran....sounds the best ...by far. In fact, sounds very good through the Champ 40. I can get the controls (the amp's bass and treb...it has no mid control) to make the Breedlove sound OK. The Martin still sounds brassy. And interestingly....the Fender has the worst (relatively) strings on it. Newtown 11's. The Martin has D'Addario 11's, the Breedlove has D'A 12's. The Martin sounds fantastic unplugged. The Breedlove very good. The Fender, OK. Quick experiment: If I turn up the mid Fender control....the tone is that awful brassy sound. Turn the mid and treb controls on the Fender to 9 O'Clock, with the bass at 12 or above...and the tone is very good. Cannot do the above with the Martin or Breedlove...since that do not have onboard EQ. SO....does this mean than an EQ would be a better pedal to get for these?? Thanks Plugging an acoustic into an electric guitar is not a good tone. It was not designed for acoustics either. You need to get a dedicated acoustic amp, or just plug into the PA. I'm not sure what your budget is. Like I said I have several acoustic amps. An old Fishman Loud box performer is one of my favs. Mine looks like this [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"480242000000000-00-500x500.jpg","data-attachmentid":32262246}[/ATTACH] They have since changed it and gave it more power. https://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/fishman-loudbox-performer-180w-acoustic-guitar-combo-amp-with-effects https://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/fishman-loudbox-artist-pro-lbx-600-acoustic-combo-amp You can try the mini, but it lacks power and the clarity of these other two. Hit one of the big box guitar places and give one a try. Then add the Spectra DI to it. I think you'll like. I still have my old SWR California Blonde that I used before that. It not back and delivers a huge thump. Lots of guys back in the 90's where using these on acoustic guitar. They are heavy though. https://reverb.com/item/10488387-swr-california-blonde-90s Getting a great accoustic tone live is not easy. I had an old Fender acoustasonic and it was terrible sounding. Looked like this. The newer Fender Wood Acoustic amps are very nice. [video=youtube;UsOus4ZLvvE] [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"product_4911.jpg","data-attachmentid":32262247}[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted June 24, 2018 Members Share Posted June 24, 2018 While ist in my mind Trace Elliot made a killer acoustic amp. https://reverb.com/item/12250695-trace-elliot-ta-100?gclid=CjwKCAjwgr3ZBRAAEiwAGVssnasrlt6it9QcFT8uKGWC2lU5fcalqaG5hlDZYhmF4BUSZ5rwWuGIpxoCm5cQAvD_BwE&pla=1#policies-tab I didn't like the Roland AC amps, but for my battery busker I do have the AC 33. If I can get my paws on a battery Fishman mini charge I may sell the Roland. Ashdown makes a new one that should be worth checking into.https://ashdownmusic.com/collections/acoustic/products/aa-100-r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted June 24, 2018 Members Share Posted June 24, 2018 . . . Dissapointed to hear that Behringer is not a good make...it got good reviews and some reviews stated that the company had their own factory in China. [added: being frugal...I wonder if it would be better to run an electric through an acoustic amp than the other way around?? I could easily trade the Champ 40 for an acoustic amp] Behringer doesn't have much of a reputation for good sound or reliability. To be fair, there's also a certain degree of brand snobbery. There are brands like Behringer, Crate, Peavey, and Carvin that it's just considered cool to bash. When I first got into electric I played a Strat copy through my bass amp. The Fender Bassman is popular as a guitar amp. An acoustic amp would be similar (I've played my acoustic through a bass amp a number of times). Bear in mind, you may not have the same effects available with an acoustic amp since acoustic players tend not to use effects to the same degree as electric folks. You probably won't get any effects at all with a bass amp. Plus, acoustic and bass amps are designed for clean sound so if you need "dirt" you'll have to use a pedal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members navigate40 Posted June 25, 2018 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 Thank you all. Great info. I am going to have to wait until there is a real need for an acoustic amp. Right now, my playing can be done unamplified. I was just very surprised at the sound coming through my existing amps...and thought something was off. When I do buy, depending on the situation, the budget would probably be $200-250. Maybe the Fender model. And seems that most have bass, MID and treb controls...which may make a EQ pedal superfluous. Looking, the Fender Acoustasonic 40 seems a good choice. Would 40W be enough for a small venue (if it ever came to that)? The 2x6.5 speakers give me pause...they seem small.....would they be OK for sound and tone? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 Whether 40 Watts would be enough depends on the size of the venue. Personally I'd be inclined to save up for the Acoustasonic 90. At 90 Watts it should be enough for most situations you're likely to encounter. Acoustic amps tend to have smaller speakers than regular guitar amps but drum amps also have small speakers and they can get quite loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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