NGD! Martin DRS2

[navigate40]

Hi Everyone

 

I got an really great deal on a nearly new Martin DRS2 in mint condition, off the bay. Had played a number of guitars from Martin, Taylor, Gib, Epi, Yammy before and liked this model the most...excellent value, all solid woods.

 

Guitar arrived in great condition, no issues with shipping. It plays well and is pretty minty. Like the quality and sound very much.

 

The action is pretty high, 3.5mm at the 12th fret. Neck relief is just less then 0.03" (with the new 11's)

 

I took the strings off and tried the truss rod...it would not budge in either direction...and I did not try to force it...only hand effort. Could probably live with the neck relief...it does not seem a problem. The intonation is fine on all strings. No buzzing at all. I think it came with 13's....I have D'Addario 11's on now. Sounds great.

 

So....I believe that lowering the action is warranted. I could do this by sanding off a bit from the bottom of the saddle.

 

Does this seem reasonable? Should I be more concerned about the neck relief?

 

Any recommendations for taking off the saddle? I was thinking 2mm to try to get the action down to 2-2.5mm.

 

All advice appreciated.

Thanks

John

ps - I play electrics mostly, but really enjoy a good acoustic.

[Freeman Keller]

Congratulations on your new guitar. Martins with A frame bracing should have a double acting truss rod with 5mm allen socket. It should be relatively easy to turn in both directions. 30 thousands is WAY too much relief, Martin's factory specs is 0.005 to 0.010, I always shoot for the low end of that range.

 

The correct order of adjusting action is to first make sure the guitar is structural stable (which included humidity) and that the frets are perfect. The relief is adjusted next because it will affect other adjustments (but they do not affect relief). Next is the first fret action (nut slots) and finally you can lower the action up the neck by sanding the bottom of the saddle. If I'm not wrong the DSR2 has an undersaddle pickup, when you sand the saddkle make sure it stays flat on the bottom our you will have unbalanced output on the p/u.

[navigate40]

Thank you for this great information. I thought the relief was way on the high end...but...it must be too high.

 

I did try turning the truss rod...but...it would not turn in either direction with hand pressure. I did not think it was a good idea to force it or try harder. With the relief such as it is, would you think the truss rod too lose and that I should try harder to tighten it??

 

Thanks

J

[sent the seller a note to ask if he adjusted the truss rod. will measure again to be sure I have accurate readings. Measured at the 1st, high E, string.]

[navigate40]

Good news...heard from the seller...he never touched the truss rod. So...the path forward should be straight forward.

 

And confirmed, it looks like 0.03"...used a straight edge that I knew to be straight, laid on the frets, then measured using one of those multi measure metal cards you find.

 

Question: How difficult should an untouched truss rod be to adjust on a new Martin?

 

Thanks

[navigate40]

YES! Success! Armed with the knowledge that the guitar truss rod should be in good shape, I tried a bit more, used a small amount of leverage...and bingo...the truss rod moved freely. 1/2 turn worth of tightening...and bingo...now the relief is 0.015"!

 

Whew.... thank you for this advice...very helpful. [just thought it would be prudent to be extra careful with a new Martin]

 

Now the action is 3mm. I plan to sand off 1.5 mm of the saddle...and see. I do have a bone saddle coming Friday...in case I screw up...or do so well that I will make a change.

 

Whew!

 

Thank you. NOW...I have a brand new Martin DRS2 for a really great price. And no need to put more $ into it by taking it for repair.

[Freeman Keller]

The truss rod nut will be stiff but should turn in either direction. I typically use the bottom one of these - 5 mm, 4 inch reach. The angled handle gives plenty of leverage without the risk of damaging the guitar

 

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Wrenches/Soundhole_Truss_Rod_Wrenches.html

 

I still think 15 thousands is too much, but that depends on how you measure. I put a capo on the first fret, hold the string down at the neck to body joint (14th) and measure a 6 with a feeler gauge. Remember that removing relief will also lower the action, thats why you do it before you touch the saddle and then leave it alone. 0.015 runs the very real possibility of buzzing in the upper fretboard, particularly if you plan to take your action down.

 

When you are ready to start lowering the saddle remember that it is not very reversible - you can always shim but you already have a big fat UST in there. High school geometry says that if you want to lower the 12th fret action by X you need to take 2X off the saddle. I like to do it in small steps, measuring each time. For the sake of this discussion I'm going to use decimal inches for all my measurements - it is much easier than fractional and thats the way my measuring tools are calibrated. You say your action is now 3mm, but you didn't say if thats low E or high. 3mm is 0.118 inches. Martin gives their setup specification as 3/32 (0.0975) to 7/64 (0.1095), so yes, you are a bit high. My personal favorite action for a fingerstyle acoust is about 0.060 on the high E and 0.090 on the low, for a strummer/flatpicker I will raise that to 0.070 high E to 0.100 high. That assumes perfect frets and relief of 0.004-5.

 

One of the best bluegrass setup techs likes the action just a hair higher than that, remember that it is easy to lower it a little more, hard to raise

 

http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/

[DeepEnd]

First, Welcome to the Forum. I know you've posted before this but since I don't know the body depth of a Fender Redondo I didn't reply so this is your official welcome.

 

Second, Congratulations and Happy New Guitar Day.

 

Third, you got lucky with the truss rod. You could have easily screwed something up. I would have sent the guitar back or simply lived with .03" relief.

 

Fourth, as you probably know, taking 1.5mm off the saddle will lower the action 0.75mm at the 12th fret. I'm an inches guy and that converts to about 0.088583". Assuming that's for the low E it's a bit lower than I prefer--personally I'd take maybe 1mm off and end up with action of 0.098425"--but hey, it's your guitar.

 

Finally, post pics when you can. We like New Guitar pics.

[navigate40]

Thanks for all the very good advice. I have worked on a couple guitars before, so felt comfortable with these adjustments...given that the guitar was actually factory fresh and not complicated by the PO. I was indeed fortunate.

 

Freeman: 1/2 clockwise turn brought it to 0.015" of relief. The truss rod adjustment had at least another 1/4 turn in it before meeting resistance. Would you suggest a 1/4 turn more to get the relief even flatter, trying to get closer to 0.005"? I can easily do that.

 

There is no buzzing on any frets. Intonation seems very good, probably perfect, using an app on my phone. But, lowering the relief will benefit the guitar (and my playing) ...with no consequence in buzzing...if I hear you correctly??

 

High E string is 2.75mm or 0.11" off the 12 fret. I am more of a strummer...but really would like this lower...since I am used to a tele. Will likely keep 11's on.

 

I have ordered a set of locking tuners for this guitar, so adjustments to the saddle can be easily made, 1mm at a time. Also have a second, bone saddle coming...just in case.

 

And thank you for the welcome. I would have posted an intro, but had that pressing question. I was able to finally measure and the body depth of a Fender Cal Redondo dreadnaught is 4" at the upper bout. Just curious...might be a good back up, second or bring over to people's homes guitar. (and I like the matte black of the special model...….just one of those things)

 

I have been playing both electric's and acoustics for a few decades, just at home and jamming with others. Not a pro, do not gig. Just enjoy it tremendously. Mostly an electric player, have built a couple strats and lately a couple tele's...but.....becoming more enamored with acoustics and the incredible way other's can play them. Just want to learn.

 

I live in SE FL and will be retiring soon.

 

Thank you

John

[navigate40]

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[navigate40]

Turned another 1/4 turn to the resistance. Might have gotten a smidge less relief. Maybe it is 0.010" now. Plan to leave well enough alone, for now.

Thanks

[Freeman Keller]

Ten thou is fine, its the upper limit of what I like to see. Leave it and work the saddle down a bit. I would start with 0.070 or so on the high E, maybe 0.100 on the low. I use a little measuring rule that has lines at 10 thousands of an inch, I just slide it along the frets until the line lines up with the bottom of the string.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Straightedges/String_Action_Gauge.html

 

You can extrapolate between the lines, frankly most people have trouble telling 10 thou of action (not true at the nut, I contend you can feel 2 thou there)

 

I too passed on commenting on your other thread simply because I didn't have an answer. Looks like you've got the bases pretty well covered with the DSR2 and the tele's - mmmmm, single coils in one and 'buckers in the other. Sweet.

 

fwiw - I use exactly the same procedures setting up electrics as acoustic - slightly different target numbers but the same idea. Perfect frets, minimum relief, first and 12th fret actions that suit the player. Electrics add the complexity of setting intonation but thats pretty straight forward too.

[DeepEnd]

Very nice looking guitar. Play it in good health.

 

0.01" relief is good enough. Give the neck a chance to settle and measure again. You may have less than that. Or you may have more. You can easily lower the high E 1mm or so with no problems, which means lowering the saddle 2mm. Your Martin was set up at the factory for 12's so 11's should be okay. Most of us use 12's. Finally, I've never seen an acoustic with locking tuners and I've never felt the need for them myself but YMMV. Just be sure the new tuners fit the existing holes.

[navigate40]

Thank you!

 

I put together the butterscotch tele and the strat from parts. The Butterscotch has Fender '52's in it, the other tele has Gibson 490's. The strat has Lindy Fralin P90's and a blender circuit.

 

Fender necks were all dead on straight and unproblematic. As you know, electric guitar bridges are mechanical devices that let you easily set the parameters you wish. Those electrics have 1.25-1.5mm action, with 9's...so....you can imagine that when I pick up an acoustic with 13's..... yikes!

 

The Martin has a great full sound, probably a bit on the bass end. So, 11's pick it up nicely.

 

Locking tuners...yeah....spoiled. Once you try them...there is no going back Have them on all my guitars. Got Hipshot 3x3 locking tuners coming....should be OK. We shall see.

 

Will leave the relief alone. Work on the saddle. Should be straight forward. And have a back up coming...just in case.

 

And...the next project....probably a little crazy...but...thinking about a tele with a lipstick in the neck, humbucker sized P90 on the bridge. Mahogany body... have the pups sitting around.

 

[and thank you for the link....am using that measuring tool. Had to measure the relief with the one feeler gauge I have. 0.010]

[Phil O'Keefe]

Congrats, welcome to the forum, and Happy New Martin Day!

[navigate40]

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"32237722","data-size":"small"}[/ATTACH] Hi Guys

 

The advice here was spot on...and fantastic. I now have the new Martin like it was factory Plek'd (as it should have been). Could not be happier.

 

Took the strings off today. Another nearly 1/4 torque of the truss rod. Sanded the saddle down 1.2 mm, to 7.2mm final, at the high point (4th string?). The results seem perfect to me.

 

Relief is a hair less than 0.010"...I cannot measure it further.

No buzzing

Intonation is pitch perfect

Action...wow.... 0.1" on the 6th string at the 12th fret. 0.07" on the high E. WOW...perfect. [freeman...did inches for you]

 

I can hardly believe I did this...but good advice, a bit of caution, some patience, and taking it step by step.....did the trick. Could not be happier...this is exactly the way I would want to have this guitar.

 

A pic....not sure if it shows much. Wish I had done a before and after...but....here it is.

 

Thank you

[Freeman Keller]

Congratulations - both on your new guitar and on doing all the right things to it. As the owner of a couple of old Martins I can promise that yours will start out good and improve with age.

[Glenn F]

Enjoy!