Question for Acoustic Guitar. Should I install electronic pickup in Martin 0015 Mahogony Acoustic

[chord123]

Will be playing a coffehouse and outdoor festival this summer, Need amplification on my acoustic for these gigs. I have ordered a Fishman Infinity pickup https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MatrixInfN . My concern is I have a rather nice acoustic Martin 0015m. By installing this pickup does the Martin guitar lose it's value significantly and is there a lot of surgery done to the guitar? I have a cheap Takamine acoustic. I am thinking of putting the pick up on that guitar instead. What do you think?

[Freeman Keller]

I do lots of repair work for my local music store and installing pickups is a common request. The Fishman Matrix is one of the most common pickups, remember that Martin uses Fishman pickups as a factory installation. I have installed them in absolutely brand new HD-28's and don't feel that it reduces the value or resale of the guitar one bit.

 

The only "modifications" you will make are reaming the end pin jack hole out to 15/32, drilling the 3/32 hole thru the bridge, and affixing the sound hole electronics package and battery bag velcro. The electronics and battery bag have double sticky tape on them - you can usually pull them off if you ever wanted to remove them. However I almost always put a dab of gel CA on the battery velcro - I've seen them come loose and the battery will bang around inside.

 

If you are happy with the action then simply sand the thickness of the UST (usually about 0.050 but measure or check the instructions) off the bottom of the saddle. The key to getting good sound with an UST is perfect contact between the saddle and transducer and the bottom of the slot. As you sand the saddle down keep the bottom perfectly flat and level or you might have some imbalance between the strings.

 

Also, as you probably know, there are two widths of transducers, Martins normally take the narrow (3/32) one.

 

I'm going to add one more comment - enlarging the end pin hole does have the potential of damaging your guitar. Do not just take a 15/32 or 1/2 bit and start drilling it out, you do run the risk of chipping finish or splintering wood around the hole. People do use a unibit for this operation, since I do it quite often I broke down and bought the $80 tapered reamer that insures I won't damage the guitar. If there is a repair tech near you that has one of these I would suggest you have her at least ream the hole.

[FretFiend.]

Here's all the surgery involved: The end pin hole has to be enlarged.to accommodate the 1/4 inch jack, and a 1/8 inch hole has to be drilled in the bridge underneath the saddle for the transducer wire to go through. The rest is just removable adhesive pads. If done properly, (by a competent professional) the modifications will have minimal effect on the guitar's resale value.

 

The surgery could more or less be reversed if desired by gluing wood plugs in the holes (and redrilling the tapered end pin hole), but most people are content just to leave it alone.

[Mikeo]

Will be playing a coffehouse and outdoor festival this summer' date=' Need amplification on my acoustic for these gigs. I have ordered a Fishman Infinity pickup https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MatrixInfN . My concern is I have a rather nice acoustic Martin 0015m. By installing this pickup does the Martin guitar lose it's value significantly and is there a lot of surgery done to the guitar? I have a cheap Takamine acoustic. I am thinking of putting the pick up on that guitar instead. What do you think?[/quote']

 

 

 

That's a good pick up for a Martin. The Martin 0015's I dig. They are mid price Martin guitars and really not collectors pieces. I have 2 - 00016's, that I just consider player guitars.

 

No value really lost.

 

That Takamine is what it is.

 

Do a good job installing the pick up or have it professionally installed, and play the heck out of that Martin.

 

If you have a chance and a few extra bucks ( like $349.95), run the guitar through a Fishman Spectra DI. I have been using one since they came out. It will make that pick up and guitar shine. You love it, whether you go directly in to the PA, or use an amp.

 

It may seem like over kill, but it's not.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AuraSpectDI

​

[DeepEnd]

You won't affect the value of the guitar. If you were really concerned I'd recommend a soundhole pickup. Those can be installed and removed without modifying the guitar. If you were going to be sitting still, say on a stool, an extra mike and stand would work. Freeman mentioned a battery bag that sticks with Velcro. FWIW, when I installed a pickup in my own guitar it came with a metal battery clip that I attached to the heel block with wood screws. I feel better knowing the battery can't come loose and rattle around. YMMV.

[Mikeo]

You won't affect the value of the guitar. If you were really concerned I'd recommend a soundhole pickup. Those can be installed and removed without modifying the guitar. If you were going to be sitting still' date=' say on a stool, an extra mike and stand would work. Freeman mentioned a battery bag that sticks with Velcro. FWIW, when I installed a pickup in my own guitar it came with a metal battery clip that I attached to the heel block with wood screws. I feel better knowing the battery can't come loose and rattle around. YMMV.[/quote']

 

 

 

That's the battery clip I have in 3 of my guitars. The 9 volt battery isn't going anywhere once in the clip.

 

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/71/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvxqoKe%252bDjhrte%252blrLaYtz%2fP%252bMwvdVYdWw%3d

[Delmont]

I wouldn't install a permanent pickup. There are plenty of great soundhole pickups out there, and you can use a single soundhole pickup for as many folk guitars as you ever have.

[DeepEnd]

That's the battery clip I have in 3 of my guitars. The 9 volt battery isn't going anywhere once in the clip.

 

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...2bMwvdVYdWw%3d

The clip came with my preamp, an older Fishman model. I wish they still supplied them. As your link points out, they cost less than 25¢ each in bulk.

[Idunno]

"Exceptional sound and versatility

Key to the evolved design of the new Matrix Infinity are soundhole mounted rotary Volume and Tone controls that now allow the player to make a variety of easily accessible dynamic and tonal adjustments. The Tone control cuts mids while boosting the bass and treble response to enhance the tonal characteristic and impact of any amplified acoustic guitar, from classical nylon string instruments to Dreadnought and Jumbo acoustic models. Taking the pickup's tonal variation capability one step further, the Matrix Infinity also incorporates a switchable voicing feature to accommodate all guitar body sizes and different performance situations in one pickup."

 

Snipped from the OP's link, the above is describing an acoustic modeling system. The "switchable voicing feature" is a ringer for it. IOW, you strap this on to your guitar, or a cinder block, and you won't be hearing your guitar, nor the cinder block, but rather an electronic doo-dad programmed to make acoustic guitar sounds. The ad never, ever declares that the system faithfully reproduces the sound of your guitar. Instead, it says everything but that in mumbo-jumbo speak.

 

Just so you know.

 

You could get the JJB system cheaper and, for better or worse, you will get closer to your guitar's sound with their straight Piezo>Pre>Out chain. That could be worse (much worse) than the Fishman's programmed acoustic guitar sound. The hardware is basically the same minus the digital enhancement stuff. Piezo does not really get the steel string sound well as a pick-up so Fishman and others are taking its frequency response input signals and digitally dressing them up before sending them out. You know, like when your mom sent you off to school all slicked back, tucked in and cheeks kissed? Same. But, that send signal is the same for any guitar (as the ad says: "to enhance the tonal characteristic and impact of any amplified acoustic guitar,") so your Martin will sound just like my Yamaha nylon string classical with the same system installed.

 

That may not bug you and it shouldn't. The audience will love it because Fishman isn't going to make the big bucks giving them the crap sound of most amplified acoustic guitars using Piezo alone.

 

This was a paid for public service message.

[DeepEnd]

. . . Snipped from the OP's link' date=' the above is describing an acoustic modeling system. The "switchable voicing feature" is a ringer for it. . . .[/quote']

Depends on what you mean by "modelling." Any piezo system is going to reproduce the sound of the strings rather than what you'd get from a good mike. The "switchable voicing" is simply a reference to EQ, with the goal of getting closer to the unplugged sound of the guitar. That's all. There's no digital modelling involved though, which is what most of us think of when we see the word. That would be the Fishman Aura: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AuraEllipseN.

[Freeman Keller]

The little PCB for the Matrix has a volume and tone pot and a switch that either sets the preamp flat or boosts the bass. Frankly when I've messed around with them I couldn't hear much difference and I've always left it set flat - assuming that the owner knows what she wants and will adjust it accordingly. The board does have a little IC on it so maybe it is smart enough to "model" something but I assumed it was just a preamp.

 

For the OP if he is still around - that little controller is designed to fit just inside the sound hole and usually will miss any bracing but once in a while there will be a reinforcement that it runs into. I don't remember problems with Martins but I do remember having some so you might want to look at the inside edge of the soundhole before you commit.

[Delmont]

Depends on what you mean by "modelling." . . . . That would be the Fishman Aura: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AuraEllipseN.

 

And I don't know about Fishman's Aura Ellipse, but Fishman's Jerry Douglas signature dobro rig digitizes a batch of microphones, not guitars.

 

So on my squareneck, I went with the K&K. It just makes my dobro sound like my dobro (but louder). Cost a lot less, too.

[DeepEnd]

And I don't know about Fishman's Aura Ellipse, but Fishman's Jerry Douglas signature dobro rig digitizes a batch of microphones, not guitars.

 

So on my squareneck, I went with the K&K. It just makes my dobro sound like my dobro (but louder). Cost a lot less, too.

From the description of the Ellipse Aura:

A total of four Aura Images can be downloaded into the Ellipse Aura from Fishman by using the Image Gallery sofware [sic.] (included) via an onboard mini-USB port. Players can accurately match the Image to the instrument's natural tonal characteristics, allowing for a realistic, miked-up sound.

The "Images" are designed to make your guitar sound like something else other than what's coming from the pickup. The idea is to find one that sounds like your guitar as if it were being miked. As for the K&K, I suspect the frequency response is closer to an unamplified guitar than an average undersaddle pickup.

[Delmont]

You're right, it's not an undersaddle pickup. It's a spider bridge pickup mounted down in the center of the cone. It picks up the vibes of the resonator, not the wood.

 

We don't need no steeking "sofware"! . . .

[Telecruiser]

I found this -

 

[video=youtube;bsJH8CwkeA0]

[kaptainkrunch7]

I have an older Fishman undersaddle pickup/ preamp and it sounds great and is the easiest for playing different venues. If the sound guys don't freak out at the request, I also usually run an octava condenser mic pointed up at the fretboard at around the 12th fret. I get the solid direct sound (processed with some reverb if I want) and have the mic for pic/ string noises and warmth. A good sound guy can blend them and get a great natural, full sound.

Martin D35 and J40.

PS. My tech guy advised to keep the Fishman I have because it sounds great and the Matrix sucks batteries big time.

[Grant Harding]

I found this -

 

[video=youtube;bsJH8CwkeA0]

 

That's a really nice performance, but all I can focus on is the plastic quack sound of the pickup.

The Aura or a Tonedexter would sound miles better than that.

[Grant Harding]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mBrguNsMvvQ

 

Pretty new, so no idea about reliability. Plus they won't ship outside the USA. But... I've never heard a better amplified piezo sound. The nylon string example is amazing.

[Delmont]

And a good mic will sound miles better than THAT.

[Grant Harding]

Very true.

[Etienne Rambert]

I once put a DiMarzio sound-hole magnetic pickup on my solid mahogany 1972 Guild D25. It's similar to OP's OO15.

 

(It looked like the attached photo. $89 @Sweetwater)

 

I remember being very pleased with the sound. It was south

of $100 USD. Some soundhole magnetic pick-ups are well-

suited to acoustics.