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Language of guitar Sound


Tony Burns

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Over the years Ive notice descriptions of tonal qualities and sound properties our guitars have -describing resonance , how long a note can hold

why rosewood is this or that over Mahogany etc. Seems the more I hear the more confusing it is.

We need a common language to describe sound -is their one ?

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I think there are some that make sense. Taylors are brighter then Martins. Meaning they have more of a bell like sound. More on high end pitch wise. Mellow is how I would describe Mahogany but I couldn't define it. The more interesting question is what is different. If the same string is vibrating at the same rate why is the sounds so different? What is it about different woods that color the vibration of the strings?

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Over the years Ive notice descriptions of tonal qualities and sound properties our guitars have -describing resonance , how long a note can hold

why rosewood is this or that over Mahogany etc. Seems the more I hear the more confusing it is.

We need a common language to describe sound -is their one ?

 

 

Yes and no. Some qualities of sound can be measured - sustain by simply picking a note and seeing how long it takes to decay to a certain level, "complexity" can be measured by doing what is called a transform to the frequency domain and looking at graphical results (I'm an engineer LOL). It might be possible to come to an agreement about "bright" or "mellow", certainly if one guitar is more or less bassy than another we should be able to hear that.

 

I think I know what a "woody" guitar sounds like because I've used that term to describe guitars that I think sound woody. Now its getting a little more esoteric, eh? And if a guitar is a "cannon" or a "banjo killer" does that just mean it is loud? If so bluegrassers would all be playing 18 inch archtops.

 

Speaking of archtops, I've built a few lately and everyone agrees that they "sound like an archtop" - what does that mean? Does it only sound like an archtop if you are playing Cmin6 or Bb9? And one jazz player called the pickups "lush" - mmmmmm.....

 

If the same string is vibrating at the same rate why is the sounds so different? What is it about different woods that color the vibration of the strings?

 

The simple answer is that based on its length, tension and material properties, a string wants to vibrate at one fundimental frequency and an infinite number of higher frequencies. Some of these resonate with the way the guitar is built - wood, size, air chamber, soundhole..., some of them are dampened out. The result is a complex soup of both frequencies and the intensity of each one.

 

An example of that is that the basic volume of a dreadnaught gives it a natural resonance very close to a G note - when you play that note it just seems to jump out. Every dread has it, a smaller guitar will be higher. I was at a blind listening test and there was a guitar built out of some very strange wood but everyone agreed that "it sounds like a dreadnaught"

 

So, describe "red"

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TBH description of tonewood properties by "end users" of instruments seems to parallel the same terminology that wine "connoisseurs" use to describe whether their particular "obsessions" are "fruity" or "oaky." As such, I now consideration guitar connoisseurs as being "cork sniffers."

 

I'm more of a jack of all trades though. I've dabbled in building and have owned various levels of quality instruments. I've even huffed the scent of several of my guitars and gotten pleasure from it. I'm nowhere near qualified to be truly "scientific" about describing a guitar or a tonewood's properties though.

 

All I know is what I like to hear and what's been the most fun to work with - and for me that happens to be eat Indian rosewood and western red cedar. They smell wonderful and are pleasing to my ear. Rosewood is VERY easy to work with but requires that your tools have to be continually sharpened. WR Cedar is also easy to work with - but almost to a detriment as it mars VERY easily. The combination brings me such pleasure though that it makes me feel all warm and squishy, though most people describe mahogany as being "warm." To my ear though, rosewood as a material OTOH is actually very hard and metallic when tapped. Cedar evokes memories of comfort and joy from my experiences earlier in life. Hog OTOH sounds more "boxy" to me, like a piece of cheap furniture.

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We need a common language to describe sound -is their one ?

 

 

"Writing (or talking) about music is like dancing about architecture." - Attributed to various people over the years.

 

 

This is one of the biggest challenges when it comes to working in the studio IMHO. Trying to decipher what people mean with some of the terms they use and translating that to specific actions that will give them what they want can be difficult precisely because there is no set list of terms for some of the subjective things we hear and feel with music. What does "warmer" mean? It might mean more lows to some people, or less highs, while to someone else it might mean more low-mids. And if we narrow it down to low-mids, then at which specific frequencies?

 

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This topic is so subjective. I recently purchased a Deering Goodtime 2 banjo. It has maple rim and maple resonator. It is an excellent banjo but I couldn't stand the sound coming from it, literally. I have hearing problems. I finally removed the resonator and voila, I was able to listen to it and the sound was beautiful. At first I thought it was the reduction in volume by not having the resonator on. It wasn't. I have another banjo that has a maple rim but a mahogany resonator. It sounded fine to me with the resonator on. My point is that all woods have different hardness characteristics and each of our ears hear things differently. The maple on maple sound was terribly irritating to me and in fact distorted my hearing while the maple-mahogany combination didn't. Long story short I loved that banjo but returned it and am having another Deering banjo sent without a resonator. I don't plan on playing publlicly so I don't need the additional projection that a resonator gives. Hardness or density of wood, your own hearing, the combination of woods used, all make a difference in the sound volume and tone. And what it all does come down to is personal taste and surprisingly, vocabulary. what is mellow to me might not be mellow to you. What is warm to me is not necessarily warm to you. I love the brightness of maple, yet couldn't stand the reflective combination of maple on maple which is used especially in bluegrass because the sound is piercing. As hil said, we each define those words differently.

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Yes to all the above!

 

The important thing to keep in mind is that words have meanings. What does bright or dark invoke for you? How about focused or shrill or nasal? Dull or lively? You can sense the fine lines between plinky and plunky and between woody and reedy, right?

 

Trying to describe a sound is like the challenge of describing flavors that wine, whiskey, coffee, and tea reviewers face. They're wordsmiths, and some of them are better at it than others. Some descriptions are common (how often have you heard a wine called oaky?) and some are highly particular. I remember a tongue-in-cheek wine blurb I read once: "A precocious selection. You'll be amused at its presumption." Wouldn't it be great to have a precocious guitar that amuses you with its presumption?

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In the way way back this subject appeared and pretty much ran the gamut of opinion. I agree with Neil's boxy to describe the sound of Mahogany, though. I would never call it a warm sound. Perhaps if it was under Cedar it might tame the cold fundamental it barks out but not under Spruce. Or, used in a large bodied guitar it might sound a touch soothing but as long as Rosewood is around Mahogany is off my spec sheet.

 

In the overall response to questions about sound I deflect them to gaining first hand knowledge. I think those questions, though, are seeking a different response. I think people are actually looking to be steered by quorum. They probably don't read the body of the responses and look strictly for which species gets the majority vote. So, from now on I'm citing Baldered Ash as my fave.

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Have two dreads, a rosewood and mahogany. Both are warm, both boxy. (Hey, they're boxes!) The mahogany has more twang and bite, the rosewood has more bloom. The difference isn't just the type of wood, of course. It's also how they were built.

 

Rosewood guitars cost more because rosewood costs more. Is there a favorite or better wood? I can play either one all day long and be happy.

 

Anyhow, that gives some examples of typical words for guitar sounds: warm, boxy, twang, bite, bloom. Do they mean anything? I think so!

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Hi, Al! You've named some key elements that go into making an instrument's sound. You're right that none of us means exactly the same thing when we talk about things like warmth and brightness. But we all talk about the sounds of our instruments. Are any kinds of descriptions useful to you?

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The way I'm understanding Tony's question, it isn't just about what woods sound best. It's mainly about how to understand the language people use to describe sounds. You're right, it would be nice to try every instrument in person rather than get secondhand opinions. But we can't do that, and we CAN talk to each other.

 

So is there anything useful to say about how an instrument sounds? Or is it all sound and fury signifying nothing?

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Delmont's got a point. I tend to attribute the term "boxy" to smaller guitars made with mahogany and dead strings - especially if they have hog tops. It's for that reason that I could never consider purchasing a parlor sized guitar - not even a GS Mini. My D-16GT OTOH is NOT boxy in the least, even though it's sitka/mahogany. It's actually got a lot of "shimmer" (overtones/longer sustain) - just not as much as my rosewood guitars.

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