Advice on a Vintage Martin Purchase PLEASE

[alanwaston]

Talk about serendipity, I just posted a comparison of some really fantastic Martin clones by top flight luthiers to a Friend's 1935 Martin 000 - a virtually miraculous guitar which has always been the "standard" against which pretty much all other guitars have been compared/measured for me.

 

Anyway, out of the blue I have come across the opportunity to buy a 1929 Martin 000-28 but I have never done this and it has some onerous requirements for me:

 

First, it needs a neck reset, re-fret, re-glue the bridge and I guess replace the bridge plate.... but it plays now and has just stunning tone.

 

I can line up a top notch guy to do the work no doubt but I just wonder how guaranteed the preservation of the tone will be? If some of you who have gone through this process can guide me as to what to look out for and what I can expect I would really, really appreciate it....because:

 

Second it would require that I sell all three of my other guitars - My life long favorite McAlister OM-28 - which is just an unbelievable instrument by any standard and I feel blessed that I ever happened across it and I am certain it is not replaceable in my lifetime. I would also have to part with a Froggy Parlor which is a complete custom job with 5A Madagascar and Michaels top drawer Addi - not to mention that the string spacing is 1 13/16th at the nut and 2 5/16ths at the saddle which is perfect for finger style but since Froggy Bottom standard spacing is 1 3/4th and 2 3/16ths the ONLY way you could get one is to order it from the back of the line and at @ $16,000 replacement cost. In a decade I have only seen one other Froggy Parlor with this generous string spacing ....in essence, again I could never replace it....

 

OK... so it is an ALL IN play. But I can get a really good deal on the Martin - if you can consider that it will cost all of three spectacular luthier built guitars and any foreseeable future guitar budget to buy it a good deal - and that won't cover the work that will need to be done.

 

SO I guess the whole idea is just so overwhelming - so exhilarating and yet it feels so risky.

 

Please, I know there are a bunch of you guys who have had vintage Martins reworked.... share your experience and wisdom. I could end up wth a guitar I could never have afforded and well IS iconic to me - but I am older and I could end up sacrificing the best guitars I could find (and afford only "used") over the last 2 decades.

 

I know I should be thankful for having the choice and yet is is getting to me.

 

Thanks for the help!

_________

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[garthman]

T . . Second it would require that I sell all three of my other guitars - My life long favorite McAlister OM-28 - which is just an unbelievable instrument by any standard and I feel blessed that I ever happened across it and I am certain it is not replaceable in my lifetime. I would also have to part with a Froggy Parlor which is a complete custom job with 5A Madagascar and Michaels top drawer Addi - not to mention that the string spacing is 1 13/16th at the nut and 2 5/16ths at the saddle which is perfect for finger style but since Froggy Bottom standard spacing is 1 3/4th and 2 3/16ths the ONLY way you could get one is to order it from the back of the line and at @ $16' date='000 replacement cost. In a decade I have only seen one other Froggy Parlor with this generous string spacing ....in essence, again I could never replace it . [/quote']

 

You and you alone have to make a choice of that magnitude. And you seem to really like the guitars you already own ^ ^ ^ ^

 

Personally I would much rather have three very amazing guitars than one very very amazing guitar. HST I have never played a Martin that I thought was anywhere near "very very amazing" - I think far too much of the price goes on the name.

 

But that's me

[Delmont]

It sounds like you're just asking whether a rehabbed guitar will still sound good.

 

I'm not a luthier, but I don't see why not. The only sound factors are the design of the guitar, the age and quality of the wood, the setup, and the strings. Only the strings and setup will change, and those can always be changed again. So, assuming your luthier uses the same glue and finish as original, wouldn't it just depend on how good the luthier is?

 

As for selling the other guitars, the question is, as Garthman says, whether you can live without any of the others. You've played the Martin. Is it comfortable enough? Loud enough? Lively enough? And how much "enough" is enough?

 

You might go back and play it for another hour or two. I doubt the current owner would mind. It's big money and a big decision.

 

[FretFiend.]

Every great vintage guitar is a great vintage guitar because some great vintage guitar craftsman restored it properly. That guitar's tone will not be harmed by a quality repair job by a really great luthier that knows Martin guitars.

 

Does this "top notch guy" have a lot of experience working on vintage guitars? Does he have a lot of experience working on vintage Martins? Does he have references? If you can, look at some of his previous work.

 

I hope you're not afraid of sticker shock. Good services like that won't be cheap.

 

I have no experience with true vintage guitars, just an old beat up, not-quite-vintage D-28, but it's special to me. I suppose I could afford to have other guitars, but after owning this one, I'm just not interested anymore. It's going to need a neck reset in the near future. The repairs are likely going to cost more than I paid for the guitar, but I consider that worth it.

 

For far more qualified advice, I suggest you peruse the UMGF, (the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum.) http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/ It can be a hassle to join, but well worth it. There's a wealth of knowledge on this subject there.

 

Whether giving up your other guitars is worth it for this one is your decision alone.

[katopp]

I had had the pleasure to play a few of the Martins on display in the Martin factory museum in Nazareth. Wonderful, stunning guitars. Best was a pre-war OM, but it was so far out of my range that I almost did not play it. I have a rule: do not play/use what you can not afford. But they literally pushed the guitar on to me, so I could not say no.

Wonderful guitar, indeed.

But would I buy it if I would have to sell all my other wonderful guitars and have no funds left to ponder another wonderful guitar in the future? Would I buy it in a state that needs repair and not knowing the outcome or the price tag of the repair?

Frankly, I would not.

We, as guitarists, look for things that even the most professional listener/audience will never hear nor understand. The key moment was, when my (now) wife said that she preferred this guitar over that guitar. And this guitar was an Ovation Celebrity Koa, that guitar was one of Binh's masterpieces. She saved herself by quickly adding that the Martin D40 was nicer, still, but I do not know if she only said it because it's one of the few guitars she knows the price tag of.

I, personally, would rather have a hand full (or two hands, three....) of very, very good guitars and the option and opportunity to play and select according to mood or need, than having just one - albeit stellar - guitar. The difference between modern guitars and vintage guitars is becoming smaller. What I've played and seen in Nazareth in regards of "new vintage" Martins was enough that I would rather get me a "new vintage" Martin than a 100 year old one. Or better a hand full of "new vintage" rather than one "old vintage".

Just my 2 cents, of course.

[Glenn F]

If I was in your position, I wouldn't do it. There may be a certain cachet to owning such an old Martin, but that wouldn't be enough to move me into selling off my current guitars (which are excellent, but not boutique-luthier level), with the understanding that I've just broken the bank to have 1 guitar that I might not want to play due to its worth. I saw an old 1929 Martin for sale at 'The Fellowship of Acoustics,' which is in the Netherlands. Maybe it is still listed. €69,000. I wouldn't want a guitar like that.

[Freeman Keller]

Alan, let me comment on a couple of your concerns. My meager credentials - I am an amateur builder, own a couple of old Martins and other guitars (not true vintage however), have had work done on them and think I have some idea of what owning and playing a very old guitar entails.

 

Joining UMGF and asking your question there is probably the place to start. They have a sub forum dedicated to vintage instruments. Second, spend some time looking at this guys web site,

 

http://bryankimsey.com/

 

he is one of the good Martin mechanics (there are quite a few out there) - his section on what to look for in an old Martin is worth reading and his price list is representative. Fwiw, he has reset the necks on two of my Martins and done other work for me -

 

Next, a neck reset, refret and regluing the bridge will not change the sound of a guitar and they are just part of maintenance on an old guitar - kind of like rebuilding the motor on a 58 Corvette (I also have a couple of vintage cars). What you want to avoid with a vintage guitar is any repairs or modifications that change it - refinishing, shaving the bridge or changing it, things like that. The jury is out on replacing tuners - if you decide to do that keep the old ones to include if you sell it.

 

I'll add here that if your guitar has been refinished or otherwise modified you should understand how that changes the value. And when dealing on an old guitar, I like to use the cost of repairs (from Kimsey's price list) in the negotiation - if both you and the owner know it needs a reset and refret and that the cost is going to be $600 then use that information.

 

The guitar probably will keep appreciating so you need to decide if you are buying it to play or as an investment. I have a couple of friends who have 1937 D-18's (yes, the holy grail) and neither play them out - they have other guitars to take to the local bluegrass jams

 

http://www.37cellars.com/

 

Again, its a bit like owning that 58 Corvette - not exactly the car for a rainy day or driving to the supermarket.

 

Lastly, a 1929 000 is not an OM (close but different) or a parlor or whatever your third guitar is. It will have very different feel, sound and playability. Is that what you truly want (sounds like you are pretty attached to the parlor)?

 

So, in summary

- do your homework on the condition and true value of the guitar

- consult with your repair tech about the cost of the repairs. Can he/she be trusted to do it correctly?

- do you want this as a player or investment? Are you willing to risk damaging it if you play or gig it?

- will you be happy replacing your other guitars with this one?

 

 

[Idunno]

I'd steer clear. Tone is not so amazing that I can't rationalize it.

[panhandler]

I think Martins coming out of the factory now are far superior to the vintage ones right out of the box, and will only get better with age.

Especially the Authentics. YMMV

[kwakatak]

I have no credentials to give adequate advice but two things jumped out at me:

 

1: the tone is great right now but the guitar may need a new bridge plate. In order to change the bridge plate not only will the top need to come off, but you're replacing a big part of the equation in the tone of the guitar. Granted, the guitar will already be in pieces with the neck reset but that guitar had better be worth it. There's no guarantee that it's going to sound as good as it did either.

 

2: is this one guitar worth the value of THREE other high end acoustic guitars? Not just from a financial perspective but as far as versatility goes. Will this one guitar (once it's gone through this MAJOR surgery) fill the void left by the departure of these other guitars? Let's talk about practicality too. Will you be playing gigs or sitting in a circle with other players with this guitar? Personally, I wouldn't. I see this as more of the acquisition of an investment, not a daily player.

 

I get that this is probably a once in a lifetime possibility but really, I don't think it's all that cost-effective. Unless you are able to keep another guitar on hand, I would walk away if I were you.

[Freeman Keller]

 

1: the tone is great right now but the guitar may need a new bridge plate. In order to change the bridge plate not only will the top need to come off, but you're replacing a big part of the equation in the tone of the guitar. Granted, the guitar will already be in pieces with the neck reset but that guitar had better be worth it. There's no guarantee that it's going to sound as good as it did either.

 

 

 

Actually, that is not true. Bridgeplates are commonly replaced thru the sound hole, if fact that is a common :"hot rod" modification to the 70's models that have the large rosewood b/p. In fact Bryan Kimsey, the guy that I linked, frequently does this (both my 74 and 80 have had it done. I'm assuming that this guitar needs it because the plate is a chewed up from the string balls.

 

Among vintage Martin repair people there is a pretty good understanding of what the size, shape and material of the b/p does for the sound (and the value) of an instrument. As long as Alan's repair person knows what he is doing this should be alright.

[Tony Burns]

A bit scary in my eyes - to get a great sound out of it you will need a decent luthier no doubt .

Not all guitars will be stellar after their transformation - so much depends on the luthier -

and the toss of the coin. if im going to spend serious cash on something in rough shape it better be very inexspensive . Their is too much out their in good condition thats priced right to go looking for trouble .