Members Etienne Rambert Posted January 31, 2017 Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 I like the Roland AC amps but nobody around here sells them. Some stores stock AcoustiSonics and Fishman Loudboxes. Anyone have experience w/AcoustiSonics?I'm running synths, acoustic and electric guitars through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 Yes. I had the older one with their so-called SFX (stereo field effects) cabinet where one speaker was aimed out front and another was aimed 90 degrees to it. It was 80 watts and had all the bells and whistles of effects one could want to have in an acoustic. It was loud, clear and clean when needed and the effects were quite respectable. It started an audible crackling sound on me once but that turned out to be dirty pots. It was also every bit of 80 lbs. It was light brown. The grill cloth was quite fragile. I replaced mine with a better fabric from a sewing notions shop, cut it to fit and then carefully applied a loose solution of epoxy resin to it and then while wet blotted it to seize the cloth yet keep it quite breathable. I sold it eventually because of the weight and bought a 220-watt Fishman SA220 that weighed 29 lbs in the wheeled transport bag. I use the Fishman now and can't imagine replacing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 I had one of the early Fender Acoustasonic Jr's, and it was terrible. Moved on to a SWR California Blonde, and then The Fishman Loudbox Performer.Tried the Roland AC60, but brought it back and grabbed the Fishman. Too many wide chorusing things on the the Roland stuff. I have a lil battery powered AC 33 and turn all that stuff off. I still feel for the coin the Fishman is the best stuff going. The new brown tolex looks cheap and ugly. I also have a Fishman solo amp and it's pretty damn good. The new SA 330 should be even better. For another 6 bills you can add the sub woofer to the 330. Try the Fishman stuff it it its you budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted February 1, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 Thanks Idunno and Mikeo. Based on what I've heard, the Loudbox does sound a bit better on acoustic guitars than the AC's.But I know the AC can handle the other gear I'm running through it. Fishman's comparable amp has only a single 6.5 inch speaker. The Roland has two. I was wondering how the Fender AcoustiSonic compared to both. Apparently, it doesn't compare very favorably. I like how it looks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 Thanks Idunno and Mikeo. Based on what I've heard, the Loudbox does sound a bit better on acoustic guitars than the AC's. But I know the AC can handle the other gear I'm running through it. Fishman's comparable amp has only a single 6.5 inch speaker. The Roland has two. I was wondering how the Fender AcoustiSonic compared to both. Apparently, it doesn't compare very favorably. I like how it looks though. Sorry I have the old Loudbox Performer. which has 2 speakers. However it doesn't have the stereo chorusing effect like the Roland stuff does. The new loudbox amps have chorus, flange and echo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 If you decide on which acoustic amp you want and want to take your tone up to another level, Try the Fishman Spectra DI. I have been using out since they came out and I think you might likie too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 2, 2017 Members Share Posted February 2, 2017 I tell ya this. Fender has really done a nice job with there new acoustasonic amps.The ones with the wood side look classy. From what I have heard on the net they sound very nice too. There a couple of new ones that wee introduced at NAMM, a few weeks ago. They are lower in price too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted February 4, 2017 Members Share Posted February 4, 2017 I owned the very first model they made, bought it when it first came out. All I remember is that my buddy's Trace Elliott killed it. I eventually sold it. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't great. No idea what the newer ones sound like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted February 5, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2017 I tell ya this. Fender has really done a nice job with there new acoustasonic amps. The ones with the wood side look classy. From what I have heard on the net they sound very nice too. There a couple of new ones that wee introduced at NAMM, a few weeks ago. They are lower in price too. Thanks everyone. Nice to hear from you again DonK. I'll try to find a newer AcousticSonic. But I doubt I'll be able to try running my synths or Guild Starfire III w/foot pedals through a Loudbox anywhere soon. That's why I am leaning toward another AC. I know it can handle everything I run through it. I like that you can just add AC's to make a good live sound set-up too. Also, they do a very good job on solo acoustic guitars - maybe not quite as accurate as the Loudboxes though. The AcoustiSonics I've heard sound like quack city on solo acoustic guitars...almost as bad as Roland KC amps. I really like how the AcoustiSonics look though. (Typed sn smart phone. Sorry about crazy formatting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted February 5, 2017 Members Share Posted February 5, 2017 I have yet to hear any steel string acoustic put through a Piezo pick-up that does not fly south for the winter. I switched to nylon strings and get a much better sound through the same pick-up. It isn't the Fender amp. Garbage in, garbage out, it's steel strings and Piezo. That's a terrible combination. Hence the soundhole acoustic-modeler mag pick-ups giving "better" acoustic sound for people who actually believe they're getting their guitar's natural sound piped through to the amp. Not so. Piezo just doesn't do acoustic steel string guitars well. I've seen Steven Stills using his Martins through Piezo and they sound horrible. He likes that quack-ish sound, though. He must because every video I see him playing solo the same sound, with a hint of chorus, is what comes through. If you want to use Piezo as a UST or SBT, you're going to get that quack sound. If you are looking for a decent acoustic sound, use a soundhole acoustic-modeler mag pick-up. It won't be your guitar but it will be better than Piezo. Strictly a finger picker, that's why I switched to nylon strings. If I was a flat picker I'd have stayed with steel strings and a modeling p'up. Get your source right and then think amps. This is a recent recording I made using a Yamaha classical guitar with a factory Piezo system. It sends its signal to a Fishman SA220 amp through a Nady wireless transmitter. Then it's recorded with a Zoom H4 from across the room. This is a nylon string guitar yet you can still hear a small component of the signature Piezo quack in the recording. It's much more pronounced if I used a steel string guitar. The difference between your experince with a Fender sounding out the quack, as you say you heard it, and this recording is the make and type of amp electronics involved. The Fishman is a much more recent iteration of acoustic amplified sound (electronics) than the Fender you heard, in all probability. Yet, the quack is still present. Piezo sucks. https://app.box.com/s/fa5k62ur4hzvjudp7roxprb70f9g3mm7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Anyone have experience w/AcoustiSonics? I'm running synths, acoustic and electric guitars through it. Not really (at least not yet) but one literally just showed up for review... stay tuned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Sorry Etienne, I was mistaken - what I have here is actually an Acoustic SFX, not an AcoustiSonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 6, 2017 Members Share Posted February 6, 2017 Sorry Etienne' date=' I was mistaken - what I have here is actually an Acoustic SFX, not an AcoustiSonic. Get down to business Phil. That one should be amazing. Test it out with a few different acoustics and pick ups, if you can. I'm not big on chorus on an acoustic amp, but The Pro might be even better. Plus there a few small less expensive ones come out. These I think coming soon, probably means sometime in April. Fender Acoustic 100 - 100-watt Acoustic Amp Fender Acoustic 200 - 200-watt Acoustic Amp I've only seen the demo at NAMM with Sweetwaters very own Mitch Gallagher and Wildwood very own Greg Kock. I think Greg actually works for Fender, as I meet him years ago on one of these Roadshow tours. They look even better than the Fishman stuff and should work well on stage and in a living room too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 6, 2017 Members Share Posted February 6, 2017 I have yet to hear any steel string acoustic put through a Piezo pick-up that does not fly south for the winter. I switched to nylon strings and get a much better sound through the same pick-up. It isn't the Fender amp. Garbage in, garbage out, it's steel strings and Piezo. That's a terrible combination. Hence the soundhole acoustic-modeler mag pick-ups giving "better" acoustic sound for people who actually believe they're getting their guitar's natural sound piped through to the amp. Not so. Piezo just doesn't do acoustic steel string guitars well. I've seen Steven Stills using his Martins through Piezo and they sound horrible. He likes that quack-ish sound, though. He must because every video I see him playing solo the same sound, with a hint of chorus, is what comes through. If you want to use Piezo as a UST or SBT, you're going to get that quack sound. If you are looking for a decent acoustic sound, use a soundhole acoustic-modeler mag pick-up. It won't be your guitar but it will be better than Piezo. Strictly a finger picker, that's why I switched to nylon strings. If I was a flat picker I'd have stayed with steel strings and a modeling p'up. Get your source right and then think amps. This is a recent recording I made using a Yamaha classical guitar with a factory Piezo system. It sends its signal to a Fishman SA220 amp through a Nady wireless transmitter. Then it's recorded with a Zoom H4 from across the room. This is a nylon string guitar yet you can still hear a small component of the signature Piezo quack in the recording. It's much more pronounced if I used a steel string guitar. The difference between your experince with a Fender sounding out the quack, as you say you heard it, and this recording is the make and type of amp electronics involved. The Fishman is a much more recent iteration of acoustic amplified sound (electronics) than the Fender you heard, in all probability. Yet, the quack is still present. Piezo sucks. https://app.box.com/s/fa5k62ur4hzvjudp7roxprb70f9g3mm7 Not necessarily. A magnetic sound hole pick with definitely give you more oup put and I have seen countless players use them including kind of famous LR Baggs M1. Ever company that does a piezo transducer has there own thing kind of going on. In the early days I used the non active unit that Martin made. They were better than nothing, but not that great. After wards I started using Martin Gold Plus ( they are made by Fishman) which is an under the saddle transducer with active electronics. I forgot the name of the Gold Plus that is made for the Gibson stuff, but both my Gibson have those pick ups installed. All of them take a 9 volt battery, which I replace every now and then, during a string change. Not the most convenient battery changes to say the least. A buddy on mine plays a Martin D28HD and he Dtar pick up. It was recommended to him by the guy that sells Martin and installs them after wards. The shop is like 10 yards from the Martin Factory and the guy cherry pick guitars out of the factory. The beauty of the D Tar under the saddle is that it operates on 18 volts off 2 AA batteries. I'm not sure it sounds better than my Fishman Gold Line plus unit with uses a 9 volt battery, but the signal is louder and clearer. More voltage a good thing. I also have a another Martin that is a 00016 and this is my bar gigger. It has a Fishman Blender system on it, with an internal mic (not exactly purdy). I blend the mic in ever so slightly and there a nice tone between the mic and under the saddle thing. Now with the being said, the next part of the my system is a Fishman Spectra DI. It's a modeler thing of sorts. You pick your guitar and the mic and blend them to taste. Compressor and an anti feed back thing that is amazing for higher volumes. I tend to just shut off the internal mic in the Fishman Blender and go through the Spectra DI. I have used the Spectra DI since it came out. This will allow your signal to an acoustic amp or into a feed to the PA to be quite hot, yet clean. Sometimes I bring my own acoustic amp, other times it's at a bigger festival show, and I need to get on and off quickly, so no acoustic amp is needed. So in that case it's the Martin and the Spectra, I'm on and off in less than a few minutes at best. Now, a few years ago I bought a Gibson F5G mandolin. Acoustically it's the bomb, but I was looking for a non invasive pick up system for it. I went with the LR Baggs M Radius ( it's a stick on pick up) and there Venue pre amp direct box. I have plays quit a few places with the mandolin and many times again I need to get on stage, do my thing and get off. The thing does sound good. I think the reason why folks like the under saddle pups and stuff like the M Radius is because they are non invasive, and clean instalation. They also can be problematic if not installed correctly. Use and active pup system and/or a pre amp if you can. All in all the key to a decent tone on an acoustic pick up is having a nice hot clean signal before it hits the amp or PA. Acoustic amps have come a long way in the past 20 years plus. I either love a piece of gear or I don't get it. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted February 8, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2017 FWIW, tone-wise, it is easy for me to decide which one sounds worse than the others. It's more difficult for me to determine which sounds best. The Loudbox and the Roland are very close though. 5eYQy2Htk0o tq30Y1VgD4c Lx1LsANOy5I 1Q4mAm91Iec Lx1LsANOy5I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted February 8, 2017 Members Share Posted February 8, 2017 Anything "acoustic" from Fender that I've tried has left me flat. It's like they have a corporate policy to charge the most money for the worst gear.As above, Fishman is the go-to. This is their bread and butter. The company president is Larry Fishman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 9, 2017 Members Share Posted February 9, 2017 FWIW, tone-wise, it is easy for me to decide which one sounds worse than the others. It's more difficult for me to determine which sounds best. The Loudbox and the Roland are very close though. 5eYQy2Htk0o tq30Y1VgD4c Those vid demos of the Roland AC 33 really make it sound better than it is. They have the volume very low, but it's not that loud of an amp, depending on your needs. I have the AC 33, and have hit the street with it a few times. The battery feature is why I bought it, own it and keep it. The key to playing/ buskin the street is to be loud enough to draw folks in, but not too loud so the cops notice you. My buddy had a the Fishman mini and he took it to school he works at so the kids could mess around with it. I'm not sure if he care ever if he gets it back. No battery power on the Fishman. The thing about the Roland is, Roland sells no cover no transport case for the AC33. I put mine in a 12 pack soft side beer cooler, and there plenty of room left over for the foot switcher for the looper, a mic, and cables. Just some things to keep in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted February 9, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2017 Those vid demos of the Roland AC 33 really make it sound better than it is. They have the volume very low, but it's not that loud of an amp, depending on your needs. I have the AC 33, and have hit the street with it a few times. The battery feature is why I bought it, own it and keep it. The key to playing/ buskin the street is to be loud enough to draw folks in, but not too loud so the cops notice you. My buddy had a the Fishman mini and he took it to school he works at so the kids could mess around with it. I'm not sure if he care ever if he gets it back. No battery power on the Fishman. The thing about the Roland is, Roland sells no cover no transport case for the AC33. I put mine in a 12 pack soft side beer cooler, and there plenty of room left over for the foot switcher for the looper, a mic, and cables. Just some things to keep in mind. I agree the whole AC series is under-powered. An AC60 is actually a 30 watt RMS per-speaker amp. Likewise, the AC90 is a 45 watt per speaker amp. I've never used an AC 33. It's too under-powered for me. But in that vid, I think it sounds fantastic. And I like the 40 second loop function and battery power. Likewise, the Phil Keagy clip has excellent tone from the AC60. Most people I've heard think the Fishman Loudbox is the best-sounding (consumer level - not boutique) acoustic guitar amp. But I need an amp that sounds great with acoustic guitar, electric guitar and my synths -all at the same time. It's down to a PA like the Eon or the Roland AC60/90. The Roland is the only amp I've seen that can do it all. Synth players are recommending AC-series amps over the awful-sounding KC series amps these days. But KC's have more wattage per dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 9, 2017 Members Share Posted February 9, 2017 I got one more idea http://www.godinacousticsolutions.com/Acoustics%20Solutions%20150_manual.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted February 9, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2017 I haven't seen that Mikeo. I'll listen to it if I can find one. BTW, anyone know how the JBL Eon sounds w/acoustic guitars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 11, 2017 Members Share Posted February 11, 2017 I haven't seen that Mikeo. I'll listen to it if I can find one. BTW' date=' anyone know how the JBL Eon sounds w/acoustic guitars?[/quote'] The JBL EON's are nice PA speakers, but for the acoustic guitar a real acoustic amp is better. Now last year JBL released the EON ONE's, which is all in one PA like the Bose system or the Fishman SA 330. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EONOned?adpos=1o1&creative=146356081832&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=EONOned&gclid=Cj0KEQiAifvEBRCVx5up6Ojgr5oBEiQALHw1TpkWCqj1 P9bdtiP-Af39909twY2xb8rhS5FuGNuhlbQaAiWV8P8HAQ http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/jbl-eon-one-linear-array-pa-system-with-6-channel-mixer?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=Cj0KEQiAifvEBRCVx5up6Ojgr5oBEiQALHw1TiGaWc63 XeRLEUY6mGQZROlyctGhIgR7Wu7BzR7lwJsaAtMI8P8HAQ&kwid=productads-adid^156403583515-device^c-plaid^140858495781-sku^J37450000000000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA [video=youtube;9iC5T0YlQc8] [video=youtube;yd9_NrWYtHU] real user vid [video=youtube;8ESDWPOFnKM] [video=youtube;-Eys5F_UP1o] The Godin/ Schertler http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/godin-acoustic-solutions-asg150-1x8-150w-acoustic-guitar-combo-amp-wood-finish I like this vid quite a bit. [video=youtube;p4520kJ891Y] [video=youtube;AQ5thZ1eAgg] Also http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/engl-a101-acoustic-guitar-combo-amplifier [video=youtube;p7eqiLRUig0] I'm waiting for Phil's review on the Fender. A lot has changed in the acoustic guitar world in the past decade. It's not easy to select am amp that will meet you needs. Sweetwater and MF have quite a bit, and if you don't like you can send it back. I never send anything back, because by the time I'm ready to lay down the money I have really researched out what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted February 20, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2017 Update: I got a deal on a used Roland AC-90 at Reverb. I haven't put it through the crash test yet (88-key rompler, acoustic guitar and electric guitar all at once, but since the AC60 could handle it all -I don't see why the AC90 couldn't.) BTW, I don't see how players could busk with this amp. It's too heavy @ 31 lbs. The Roland demo talks about carrying it around NYC. No **ffing way. The UPS guy was sweating w/this thing. It's big, HEAVY and loud. It would be a good portable PA I guess. It's also probably a better synth or arch-top amp than a pure flat-top acoustic guitar piezo amp. It's got the Jazz Chorus pedigree in its tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted February 21, 2017 Members Share Posted February 21, 2017 Have fun with that. A new amp (used, whatever) is always fun stuff. Chorus is a good feature, too. BTW, I made a small 4-wheel frame (dolly) for the 80 lb Fender AcoustaSonic I had for getting it around. I tied a rope to the dolly and made a handle from a 1" wood dowel to drag it around. You might consider one of your own. Everything at The Home Depot. Similar weight on the Fishman SA220 I have but it breaks down into a wheeled gig bag. Plus, it towers over the heads of most people when assembled so it can reach out to the crappy seats no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted February 21, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 21, 2017 80 pounds? Cripes! Yup. I need a dolly. Keyboard = 53 lbs + amp @ 31lbs I haven't even counted the acoustic guitars yet. I can't see ever playing out w/ this gear. FWIW, the AC90 looks to be 1.5x or 2x the size of an AC60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted February 21, 2017 Members Share Posted February 21, 2017 Have fun with that. A new amp (used, whatever) is always fun stuff. Chorus is a good feature, too. BTW, I made a small 4-wheel frame (dolly) for the 80 lb Fender AcoustaSonic I had for getting it around. I tied a rope to the dolly and made a handle from a 1" wood dowel to drag it around. You might consider one of your own. Everything at The Home Depot. Similar weight on the Fishman SA220 I have but it breaks down into a wheeled gig bag. Plus, it towers over the heads of most people when assembled so it can reach out to the crappy seats no problem. I have a SA220 and I wouldn't trust those wheels down the hallway of my house. I'm also not sure how folks power up a Roland AC60 or AC90 where you can't just plug in too a wall outlet. I have seen DC to AC converters, but batteries ain't light. Hope it all works out for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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