Should I try this myself?

[blackcats]

I have 4 guitars, 3 of them were set up with low action by the same luthier. The Martin alone was not set up, and the action is higher. It was harder to make barre chords on initially, but I can make them now. I use 13's on it, I'm accustomed to the higher action, and I love the way it sounds.

 

Since I got the Martin, I've not enjoyed playing the others. They just don't satisfy in terms of sound. My son, a guitar player of 30 years, was just here over the holiday. He thinks the action is too low on the three with the set-ups, especially the Breedlove and Washburn, that it has cost them in terms of tone, and that if the action is raised they'll sound better. I'd like to try it.

 

Question is this:

I am pretty facile with hand tools and I love to tinker. What if I ordered new nuts and saddles and installed them myself? The one thing that gives me pause is cutting the nut slots, so I'd probably just order them precut from Stewmac or someplace. Do you all experienced people think this is something I could try myself? I mean it's not like I could permanently damage the guitars, right? Barring a gouge or scratch from tool slippage, whatever I did should be reversible if it doesn't work out. Or should I just not mess around and take them to a pro?

 

Interested in your feedback.

 

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[garthman]

Hello and welcome.

 

Doing a set up is not difficult, especially if you already have some DIY skills. But why not just fit a shim under the saddle of the 3 guitars to raise their action? You can make shims from an old credit card - it works well and costs nothing.

[catscurlyear]

i wouldn`t bother changing the nut at this point unless the nut is reposible for some fret buzz but even then you can carefully put a small drop of superglue in the slot of the nut ,let it dry overnight then re cut the slot .

[Freeman Keller]

I build and setup guitars and one of the things that I am totally anal about is measuring EVERYTHING before I start. That includes, first, the condition of the guitar - is it well humidified (if you set the action on a dry guitar its just going to change), how are the frets, are there any structural issues? Fix any of those things before you ever start.

 

Next you need to measure and understand the relationship between the three major parts of a the guitars action - relief, nut slot depth (or really, action at the first fret) and action at a convenient point on the neck - almost always the 12th fret. It is good to have target goals for each of these - your Martin can provide that if you like the way it plays. I made a spreadsheet that I fill out for every guitar that crosses my bench that has all of these measurements - it has columns "starting", "target", and "finished" (as well as one for where I got the target values - manufactures specs, another luthier that I admire, etc.

 

I use that spreadsheet when I talk to my customer about what needs to be done and I use it to systematically do each step (they need to be done in a particular sequence because of interaction). (by the way, if you want a copy of that spreadsheet PM me an e-mail address - it has a lot of the target information included).

 

I don't do a setup if the frets aren't pretty much perfect - or at least I know the setup won't be as good as it can be. If the frets are good, the most important thing is the amount of relief in the neck - too much or too little can introduce buzzes. My target values are 4 or 5 thousands, perfect frets can be a little less, a hard strumming flat picker might want a little more. My goal at the nut is to have the slots at roughly the same plane as the reset of the frets - usually that means about 0.014 clearance at the first string going up to 0.018 or so at the low E. A quick test is to hold the strings down at the third fret and tap them over the first - I want to hear a little "ping" that indicates some clearance but it should be very close to the fret.

 

Most of us measure "action" at the 12th fret - it is convenient at any change will be twice as much at the saddle (ie if you want to raise the action 1/64 at 12 you will raise the saddle 1/32. I measure action in decimal thousands just like the other things - stacked feeler gauges work well. My target for "low action might be 0.060 on the high E and 0.090 on the low E (with each string getting progressively higher) - for "high" (bluegrass) action I might raise that to 0.0.85 on the high and 0.105 on the low)

 

I would be happy to go into more detail or to point you to links about setups. My suggestion if you really want to try it higher is to measure and adjust your relief, leave the nut alone and shim the saddle to raise it a bit. I have cut strips of plastic from a credit card to experiment. If the shim works I make a new taller saddle because I don't like anything under it, but honestly it might not be necessary.

 

Remember too that changing string gauges will usually pull a couple of thousands more relief into a neck - if the guitar is strung with 12's it might be good to change to 13's and take your measurements. Also remember that changing the relief (adjusting the truss rod) WILL affect the action but that is not what the truss rod is there for. That is why you do it first - adjust the relief then leave it and do the other things.

 

Good luck, its not rocket science but IMHO understanding the relationship between these parameters makes it much easier.

 

ps - and before I forget my manners, welcome to HCAG

[DeepEnd]

Hi and welcome to the Forum. As everyone else has said, you can do it. I'd recommend taking a good set of measurements,as Freeman suggested, and inspect the frets for excessive wear. If they look okay, you can probably proceed. If your other guitars got a proper setup, the tech filed the nut and you don't need to worry about it. A premade saddle is cheap. Bone or TUSQ will cost you $15 or less. Bone: https://www.allparts.com/search.asp?keyword=compensated+bone+saddle&search= TUSQ: https://www.allparts.com/search.asp?keyword=compensated+tusq+saddle&search=. You can sometimes find bone saddles cheap on eBay as well. Basically you want to measure the relief and action on your Martin and compare it to the relief and action of your other guitars. BTW, 13's are usually fine but most manufacturers these days recommend 12's. Settle on a string gauge, leave the strings on for a day or two, and then measure the relief. Put a capo at the first fret and hold down a string at the neck/body joint, probably the 14th fret on most steel string acoustics. Slip a feeler gauge under the string at the 7th fret and see how much clearance there is. 0.006-0.008" or so is typical but if you like the way your Martin plays go with whatever figure it has. If the guitar has less relief (a smaller gap) than your Martin, take an Allen wrench and turn the adjusting nut counter-clockwise slightly, say 1/4 turn or less. If there's more relief, turn the adjusting nut clockwise slightly. Give the neck a chance to settle (I usually wait overnight) and measure again. Repeat as needed. Next, measure the action on your Martin at the 12th fret for both the first and sixth strings and compare it to the action on the guitar you're setting up. Whatever the difference is at the 12th fret, you need to add twice that to the height of the saddle. If the new saddle is too tall, it's just a matter of sandpaper and patience. We're here if you have more questions. Good luck.

[bigald18]

Martin sells different height saddles for their guitars already cut and rounded. All you have to do is measure your saddle height and get the next smallest height available from them. If you like everything else on it, this might be a simple way of fixing your problem with going anal.

[DeepEnd]

Martin sells different height saddles for their guitars already cut and rounded. All you have to do is measure your saddle height and get the next smallest height available from them. If you like everything else on it, this might be a simple way of fixing your problem with going anal.

I know you don't want to hear this but the OP doesn't want to raise the action on his Martin, he wants to set up his other guitars like the Martin:

 

. . . The Martin alone was not set up, and the action is higher. . . .

 

. . . Since I got the Martin, I've not enjoyed playing the others. . . .

Duplicating the setup of the Martin means new saddles for the other three guitars and being just a a tad "anal."

[bigald18]

YOU'RE RIGHT

[katopp]

A few honorable mentionings:

You may want to test and compare different SADDLE materials. Bone, plastic, NuBone, TuSQ all have their respective qualities. Plastic does not mean it's bad. There are valid points pro (and contra) each different material.

Check that the bottom is right and square. It's easy to sand a curvature or a trapezoid shape into all materials.

Measure twice, cut once. Use thin strips of veneer (or strips from a credit card/loyalty card) to set it up, then measure, then do the saddle.

You may not want to mess with the nut. If F/fm/Bb/bbm feels okay - do not touch it. If you are sure that you have to, get yourself welder's tip cleaners (and a calliper) for the final work.

[Freeman Keller]

Lets see if Blackcats comes back and how he reacts to the advice given so far. The simplest thing for him obviously is just to pull the saddles out, put some sort of shim under them and see he feels that 'if the action is raised they'll sound better"

[Grant Harding]

It sounds from the OP like the Martin might have heavier strings. If so, start there before deciding if the action needs to be raised.

[Freeman Keller]

The spreadsheet that I mention in my first reply even has a section for the strings that were on a guitar (which would be the "target") when I get it. I measure them with calipers - you would be surprised how many people don't actually know whats on their guitar. I then ask them if they want to stay with the same gauge when I do the setup - that might affect some of the other parameters.

[garthman]

Yeah. That's what I suggested. It would save him a lot of time and effort if he found there was no "improvement".