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CARBON FIBER GUITARS, ANY GOODE?


rlspencer

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Matter of personal taste. I played several Rainsongs at NAMM last year, and they sounded good to me; but they will always sound just that good. Aging of wood usually has a positive effect on acoustic tone, and carfib guitars will never change...

 

When I was a kid, I had time to let my Guild age, and it sounds fabulously fabulous now. But at 63, I am not going to wait 40 years for that...YMMV...

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That is something that you need to decide for yourself - play a few and see what you think. A friend who has some wonderful wooden guitars (very very expensive) has a couple of CF guitars to keep out on stands, ready to play. One nice thing about them compared to wood is that they are pretty insensitive to humidity and getting knocked around.

 

Welcome to HCAG.

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It's not that Carbon Fiber guitar aren't any good.

 

Here's my opinion on them.

 

They are not prone to changes in humidity and seasonal issues like wood.

That are rather on the heavy side

They are really loud

They seem kind of sterile in tone. I have played several different models, but never the same model side buy side.

One either likes the look of carbon fiber, or they don't

 

Carbon fiber is not and inexpensive manufacture process. My wife used to work for a company that made carbon fiber car parts ( mostly body parts).

The Fishman Prefix Plus T isn't imo that end all catch all of acoustic pick up systems. It not bad, but nothing that great.

 

It's in many ways pretty subjective, on what sounds good and what sounds great

 

[video=youtube;MJ6iyWSEzIs]

[video=youtube;UlZveUnb5hY]

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The advantage of carbon fiber is that unlike wood, it is stable, and it is totally unaffected by humidity, and even water. Only you can decide if they sound goode.

 

If you like to carry your guitar in a gunny sack and sit beneath the tree by the railroad track, they might be goode for you.

 

Your name isn't Johnny is it???

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Haven't played a CF guitar but yes, they're not cheap (then again neither is a really good wood guitar). A quick check of Amazon.com shows a "cheap" CF guitar will run you $1200 or so. You can get a very nice all solid wood guitar for half that.

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anybody sez this place "ain't" a golde mine of valued learned opinion and true expertise is dronk. I would like t see and (and hear) a video comparing a CF A/E guitar with a all solid wood similar priced.

concerning the Cf axe I like the Idea of not having to worry about dampness or cold. Be perfect for night time outdoor events stays in tune better?

If it sounds goode. does it have sustain like what you get from a solid top?

vid would be cool.

A newly made solid woods guitar has a somewhat sterile tone that becomes a unique soulful voice with age and use.

the Cf guitar will never ripen and mellow or could it take thirty-five hundred years and BOOM then be the sweetest ever heard? Like "oh! "

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Wood takes decades to change. Short term changes in sound are always changes by the player. It's called adaption.

CF does not change in timeframes we consider "long". It will stay like it was. You, the player, will learn and adapt. So, in the end, the sound will change for the better, but not because of the guitar.

But that is true for all guitars.

In terms of sustain... CF seems to be better here - at least to my ear.

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Wood takes decades to change. Short term changes in sound are always changes by the player. It's called adaption.

CF does not change in timeframes we consider "long". It will stay like it was. You, the player, will learn and adapt. So, in the end, the sound will change for the better, but not because of the guitar.

But that is true for all guitars.

In terms of sustain... CF seems to be better here - at least to my ear.

 

 

 

Somewhere along the way a a hunk of wood realizes it's an instrument.

 

It happens in the first few months to about the first year. Unless it's an over built old school Guild, which opens up very nicely in about the second decade of it's live.

 

Taylor does a nice job of building guitars that sound damn good out of he box.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I am not starting another argument about "breaking in" guitars.

But I am going to ask you. what if my personal idea of a "good" sound is some scratchy, grungy, disharmonic noise? Will I have to sell of my new Martin after a few hours of playing, because it sounds too good?

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I know local guy that has a few Carbon Fiber acoustics. One is a Rain Song and the other I believe is from Composite Acoustic. He's an awesome older gentleman that goes around to the local bars, nursing homes, children hospitals and just plays. He and his wife are retired and just make night out to open mic in the area.

 

I like these too. Before Carbon Fiber there was the John, Rudy and Emil. :D

 

Pretty gritty in a steel body. I have an older chrome plated bell brass dobro 33H.

 

Next time around I might do a steel body.

 

The newer Nationals have a pretty chunky neck.

 

[video=youtube;9rUAe7E3bOw]

[video=youtube;8wMRbXOI0lc]

[video=youtube;jNMhM8e6ZqE]

 

 

 

 

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Like I said my wife use to work for a company that made carbon fiber car parts and also had a medical division.

I knew carbon fiber parts were put in to a mold, wrapped in a bag so the air could sucked out.

 

I found this vid, and it shows you how one is made. If anyone cares.

 

[video=youtube;2QbH8_GnU5k]

[video=youtube;dqEiDJvuC2w]

[video=youtube;2piX_eVSYvQ]

 

 

These 2 vids might be even better, at showing the manufacturing.

 

 

[video=youtube;kVnpbQtkL5Q]

[video=youtube;8mJD_Cqyifo]

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As a builder one thing that is interesting to me is to see the use of CF in wooden guitars. Usually as stiffening rods in necks or laminated into braces. Classical guilder, who by all reason should be very conservative seem to be doing some very interesting things with laminated composite top and braces. I've used CF very effectively for splines in headstock repairs.

 

Here the engineering properties of CF is used to augment the wood, not replace it.

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I am not starting another argument about "breaking in" guitars.

But I am going to ask you. what if my personal idea of a "good" sound is some scratchy, grungy, disharmonic noise? Will I have to sell of my new Martin after a few hours of playing, because it sounds too good?

In my hands, no guitar will ever sound ''too good.'' ;)

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I would not mix dissimilar materials in a guitar build. I know some builders use CF in the neck but I have to think the ones who do are hardly savvy about the dissimilar thermal and RH absorption dimensional expansion/contraction coefficients between them. This is where we might say a builder meets nature full tilt on the jousting field with mutual ignorance their weapons of choice. To call the use of CF in a wooden structure "interesting" is charitable.

 

In the spars of lightly built large scale (1/4) radio controlled airplanes a laminate of balsa and CF served the purpose of keeping down weight while yielding greater strength. But, the coefficients of expansion and possible delamination were not much of a factor considering those airplanes were usually total losses long before any kind of structural (long-term) failure had time to develop. In the neck of a guitar where tensional changes are a constant working regime I'd expect the CF to delaminate providing no additional strength, once the glue bond finally sheared, and it simply moved independently in situation. If such a strength modifier was used in lieu of normal neck construction there might be a problem of over-flexing down the road. I think CF has its place as a structural modifier in materials of it's own or very similar materials/matrices but not within critical wooden structures.

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When it comes to CF, I beg to differ.

CF/wood composites will have a very limited lifespan due to the inherent hygroscopic nature of the wood, it’s swelling snd shrinking in respect of the climate, but pure CF is - if done properly - basically better than needed for this application.

I do not fear delimitation in a CF guitar. There is not enough flex in there. If you look at the wings of a Boeing Dreamliner or an Airbus 350 - both made of CF Laminates at least for structural components and you see the flex in those wings, then I would fear delimitation.

But on a guitar?

I don’t think so!

 

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As a lot of the folks above have said, sound is a matter of taste.

 

I have a friend who's had a Rainsong for years. He sails a lot. Sometimes he's gone for months. And he doesn't like taking his old Martin off dry land. So he got the Rainsong.

 

But it's turned out he likes it so much that that's what he plays at home, too. The Martin never comes out of the closet anymore.

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I see Rain Song and Composite Acoustic are pretty proud of their products. Not a criticism, but probably for my purposes they just don't compete well with a $200 Backpacker... where small -- both during use and especially when stowed -- would be more important than tone. Within reason.

 

-D44

 

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I see Rain Song and Composite Acoustic are pretty proud of their products. Not a criticism, but probably for my purposes they just don't compete well with a $200 Backpacker... where small -- both during use and especially when stowed -- would be more important than tone. Within reason.

 

-D44

 

 

Yes, carbon fiber and other composits are highly engineered structural materials - that is why they are used in race cars and aero space applications and high end bicycles. You are paying for both the engineering properties and the "gee wiz" factor. Klos makes a somewhat affordable travel sized CF guitar (Google is your friend), however its still 3 times your Martin backpacker

 

http://www.klosguitars.com/product-page/3c3a5a71-efea-590b-1bc1-de83649c186f

 

And for what its worth, have you actually played a Backpacker? In my humble they sound terrible and are almost impossible to hold.

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Yes, carbon fiber and other composits are highly engineered structural materials - that is why they are used in race cars and aero space applications and high end bicycles. You are paying for both the engineering properties and the "gee wiz" factor. Klos makes a somewhat affordable travel sized CF guitar (Google is your friend), however its still 3 times your Martin backpacker

 

http://www.klosguitars.com/product-page/3c3a5a71-efea-590b-1bc1-de83649c186f

 

And for what its worth, have you actually played a Backpacker? In my humble they sound terrible and are almost impossible to hold.

 

 

True

 

 

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