Members singplay Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 I received my new Taylor 812ce a few days ago from Sweetwater. The guitar sounds fantastic both unplugged and plugged in and looks great, except for these tiny places on the back. (see pictures) Near the center point I can slightly feel these "raised" (bubbles). I am trying to decide on receiving a replacement, or accepting a discount. I want to make sure these places are just cosmetic and not a "problem" that will get worse later on. Any ideas what these are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members panhandler Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 Welcome. Does not look serious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 Those pix don't really show a lot, but based on what I can see, it's not really serious. That said, I would expect a better finish than that on an almost top of the line Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 No issue here.Taylor uses electrostatic finishing in which ony the bare minimum of laquer is applied. The laquer fills all the surface, but is not as thick as the usual chinese drip paint. It is more a mark of quality than an issue.My luthier also applies laquer this way - on explicit request only - but frankly, I do not here a lot of difference between the thicker paint and the thinner paint, but I trust that thicker finish protects better against scuffs and scratches, so all my "working" guitars get the standard finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members panhandler Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 No issue here. Taylor uses electrostatic finishing in which ony the bare minimum of laquer is applied. The laquer fills all the surface, but is not as thick as the usual chinese drip paint. It is more a mark of quality than an issue. My luthier also applies laquer this way - on explicit request only - but frankly, I do not here a lot of difference between the thicker paint and the thinner paint, but I trust that thicker finish protects better against scuffs and scratches, so all my "working" guitars get the standard finish. Taylor uses poly for their finishes, not lacquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 If it's as minor as it appears to be from the pictures, and you like the way the guitar looks, plays and sounds outside of that one issue, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Taylor guarantees that guitar for life - if it does start "getting worse", you're covered... but it appears to be a very minor cosmetic issue as best as I can tell from your pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 Those pix don't really show a lot' date=' but based on what I can see, it's not really serious. That said, I would expect a better finish than that on an almost top of the line Taylor.[/quote'] ^ This. It's not serious but we're talking about a $3500 guitar. The finish doesn't look much better than the one on my $350 Ibanez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members singplay Posted August 20, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 I appreciate all the comments...they have been very helpful. The company where I bought the guitar is going to send me a replacement as soon as they receive more of this model (1st of September). When I receive the replacement they are giving me the option to keep the replacement (if after I inspect and play it I am better satisfied), or keep the original and receive a discount. I might very well end up keeping the one with the minor cosmetic issue, but not at (almost) full cost. ( I received a $150 discount on the original order, but $3,350 is easily the most I have ever paid for a guitar and I think it's reasonable to expect near perfection at that price point ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 20, 2015 Members Share Posted August 20, 2015 Good for Sweetwater to try to satisfy you but what I see doesn't look like raised "bubbles" - I see grain pores. That is very common on rosewood - the first step in finishing is to try to fill the pores and level the surface. Taylor has made a big fuss about redoing the way they do their finishes on their flagship guitars like the 8xx series - they are attempting to make them much thinner than previously. That does mean that more little "flaws" will be present. And unless they have changed things, they still use UV catalyzed poly, not lacquer. When you register your new guitar you will start getting their periodical "Wood and Steel" - there have been some pretty good articles on the changes that Andy Powers is bringing to Taylor Guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members singplay Posted August 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 Thank you for your comments. If I am understanding you correctly, grain pores are "normal" and nothing to be concerned about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 There are two classes of wood used in guitar making - some like spruce and maple have closed pores and are not a problem. Mahogany, rosewoods, koa and some others have open pores - they are the little marks about 1/4 inch long that you see particularly in mahogany necks. You would think that finish would just fill these in and make it all nice and smooth, unfortunately the thin finishes on guitars doesn't do this. Therefore one of the first steps of finishing is to "fill the pores" - there are lots of ways to do it, Martin rubs a paste filler over the bare wood with the idea of forcing some into the pores but not leaving a build up on the surface. I've used paste fillers but have my best results with epoxy - that's a lot more work than manufacturers are willing to do. (I don't know what Taylor uses, maybe they just rely on the polyurethane to fill them) Anyway, yes its normal and the thinner the finish (which is a good thing) the more they show up. Taylor has been trying to get their finishes thinner in the interest of improving tone - I think this is one of the consequences. There may be more going on - as I say I can't see any bubbles but tiny little streaky pores are normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 https://www.taylorguitars.com/media/new-800-series-finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted August 21, 2015 Members Share Posted August 21, 2015 Of course UV catalyzed poly. I used the term "laquer" to generalize "finish".Fact is, Tayler uses a very thin finish that is just a few molecules thick, by far thinner than standard drip finish used by mainly far east makers. The thick far east finish is sometimes sp thick ant pastic-y that it just swallows the whole guitar - but it protects it very well.The thin electrostatically applied Taylor finish has the benefit of very uniform thickness and very light weight, but it almost amplifies the underlying imperfections of the wood itself, like porous structures and even the different structuress of the top. You can not polish thin Rosewood or Spruce to a mirror-like surface that then has no imperfections visible in the extremely thin finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I appreciate all the comments...they have been very helpful. The company where I bought the guitar is going to send me a replacement as soon as they receive more of this model (1st of September). When I receive the replacement they are giving me the option to keep the replacement (if after I inspect and play it I am better satisfied)' date=' or keep the original and receive a discount. I might very well end up keeping the one with the minor cosmetic issue, but not at (almost) full cost. ( I received a $150 discount on the original order, but $3,350 is easily the most I have ever paid for a guitar and I think it's reasonable to expect near perfection at that price point )[/quote'] Sounds very fair to me! Just out of curiosity, what dealer did you buy the guitar from? Places that offer that kind of service when something goes wrong are the ones I like to do business with. Oh, and when the new guitar arrives and you make your decision, please let us know what you went with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 22, 2015 Members Share Posted August 22, 2015 Phil, I think he bought it from Sweetwater. I have heard great things about their customer service, as well as their inventory. One thing that I have heard is that each guitar gets set up before it goes out the door - seems like that should be standard but unfortunately doesn't seem to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Unfortunately, a lot of places just grab the guitar out of the box and put it up on the wall. Some of those places will do a setup for you if you ask and try to get it included as part of the purchase deal, and some will do a setup for you on a nicer guitar if you express serious interest in buying it, but a lot of stores don't bother with it at all anymore - which is a shame IMO. Not all guitars are well set up from the factory (although many are), but more importantly, not all players like the same things in terms of the setup, action height, string gauges, etc. FWIW, my past experiences with Sweetwater's customer service has been very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members singplay Posted August 29, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2015 Sweetwater. Mike DeFraties is the salesman and Colin is the "tech"...they are both very helpful and knowledgeable. I ended up keeping the original guitar with a nice store credit. The replacement guitar looked better on the back, but still had a couple of minor "imperfections". The differences in the two guitars was minor, but I liked the slightly darker top and slightly lighter back of the original guitar and it seemed somewhat more full and resonant. (although the brand new strings verses the almost three week old strings could have been a factor) It had also started to feel like "mine". I actually preferred the lighter color pickguard on the replacement, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members singplay Posted August 29, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2015 I am very pleased with Sweetwater and their staff. I will definitely use them again when my local store doesn't carry something I need. (plus they offer great "no interest" financing deals from time to time for large purchases.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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