Members Sheepdog81 Posted June 18, 2015 Members Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hi, this is my first post. I am a mediocre guitarist despite having played for years (being an all rounder on instruments is my forte) and my knowledge is also basic, as far as the hardware of a guitar is concerned. Here is my problem... I bought a second hand Takamine EG363sc two days ago, but it has a very high action - First few frets are fine, but the gap increases up the fretboard. I have looked through many sites explaining about truss rod this and nut and saddle that, but my god is it a minefield of cautious interpretation. I suspected it may be a truss rod issue, because others have mentioned this model tends to bow (Though I can't tell by looking). However, the internet sites tell me this can be a dangerous practice and it seemed to favour decreasing the height of the bridge or saddle first. So, I took out the strings and took the bridge off and there was copper strips in it - Of course, it is a semi acoustic, never occurred to me that's where it conducts electricity! So I put the bridge back hoping I've not damaged the electrics and now I feel absolutely clueless what to do next. Could some kind soul advise me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 18, 2015 Members Share Posted June 18, 2015 First, Sheepdog, let me welcome you to HCAG. I'll try to help (and there are several more folks who will chime in) but first I'm going to ask you to do some things. Please don't do any adjustments (truss rod) or other changes until we've talked this thru. My credentials, if it matters, is that I am an amateur guitar builder and I do a fair number of repairs and setups. I take a very systematic approach to every guitar that I work on, and I will try to talk you thru this. Do you know the approximate age? Does there seem to be any structural issues (is the bridge lifting, cracks around the neck heel, things like that)? Are the frets badly worn? Are the ends of the frets sharp (as sign that the guitar is too dry)? Does the top below the bridge seem to be bellied out or sunken in? Next, with string on it (put the UST back under the saddle) and tuned to pitch take a 24 inch straight edge (get a yard stick and cut it off) and put in on the fretboard between the 3rd and 4th string - take a picture of the end of it near the bridge. Ideally it will just be touching the top of the bridge. Take another of the bridge area showing the saddle - I want to see how much is sticking out. Now try to measure the gap between the high and low E strings and the 12th fret. Ideally you will use an accurate ruler graduated in 64th of an inch with no gap on the end. Get down and look at it sideways with a good light, take a picture if you can. If you have feeler gauges you can stack them to get the measurement. Next, with it still strung and tuned, put a capo on the first fret and hold the high E (and then low E) string down at the 14th fret - if you have feeler gauges measure the gap at 6. If you don't have feeler gauges (auto parts store) try to slide a business card between the string and the 6th fret - if one will fit try two. If you can't get one card under the strings just try tapping each string right over the 6th fret - you should hear a little "ping" Now put the capo on the third fret and try tapping each string over the first fret - again, you should hear a little "ping". Lastly, take the capo off and play each string at each fret from the first to the 14th - does each one sound cleanly without any buzzes or rattles? Report back btw - if you don't feel confident doing this or don't have the tools I'm going to suggest taking it to a good store with someone who does setups. I will cost you somewhere between $50 and 100 plus maybe some parts (strings) but they should do it right (unless there are structural issues which should be fixed first). Beware the guy that immediately grabs a truss rod wrench - that MAY be part of the problems but it is not the way to fix high action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sheepdog81 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2015 Not long after I posted my issue, my dad rang me up to say he has been in contact with a guitar repair man that his work colleague recommended and has booked my guitar in for Monday. I would have told him not to had I known, because I would rather have followed your very kind advice FK for free. I feel guilty and very sorry to have bothered you with this issue and I can only hope somebody can find this thread and use your advice because it is detailed and very helpful and I think the high action thing is a common issue. The upshot for me is that the repair guy not only fixes problems but has a reputation for making people's guitars as good as new, so he'll look at other aspects he can improve on the guitar. Again, sorry about this FK and I appreciate the trouble you took to advise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi, Sheepdog. Welcome to the Forum. I can't speak for Freeman but most of us are happy to share what we know (or what we think we know,at any rate, LOL). Please let us know how your Takamine turns out. If you want, feel free to post a few pics of your new guitar. We like to see folks' gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 I am glad that you are taking it to someone who it sounds like knows exactly what he is doing. That's always my first choice, but its also fun to learn to do some of this stuff yourself (and to understand why you are doing it). I'll always try to help with that. I'll be interested in hearing what your setup guy says and does, and I'll be very interested in your reaction to the guitar after its been worked on. Please report back and please join our little group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 Here is an after thought that you might find interesting. Do all of the tests that I suggested and write down what you see. Then do it again after your tech has worked on it - see what he has changed and we can talk about that. The yardstick-on-the-neck thing is a check of the general health of your guitar - he probably won't change that. But each of the other things is part of a good setup and you might be interested in what he does. Better yet, if he will let you watch you will really learn a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 Nice advice guys. But Freeman, c'mon! " I am an amateur guitar builder" Maybe you don't make your majority income from this, but given the amazing guitars you have cranked out and shared over the years, I would hardly call you an amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sheepdog81 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2015 I am taking the guitar in for repair shortly, so as requested here is a few pictures showing the high action...Don't know why I didn't put the tape measure at the end of the fretboard. If you want to see the full guitar there are pictures in the ebay auction I won... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Takamine-G-Series-EG363SC-6-string-Electro-Acoustic-guitar-barely-used-/121668065356?nma=true&si=X1Q8gH2ga5%252BjqFr%252FZfn7wDDaytQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted June 22, 2015 Members Share Posted June 22, 2015 You need to measure at the 12th fret, from the fret to the string. That particular guitar has a fancy position marker there. It looks like you measured at the 17th fret, which throws the measurement off. The action should measure about 3/32" (about 2.5mm) for the 6th string at the 12th fret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 25, 2015 Members Share Posted June 25, 2015 Did you have it looked at? What did your tech say and do? Is it better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sheepdog81 Posted June 26, 2015 Author Members Share Posted June 26, 2015 Well, I have just picked it up. He has shaved quite a bit off the bridge. The truss rod has not been altered. He put a new set of strings on, so the total service was $66. He told me that luckily there were additional prop strips (whatever you call them, to raise the bridge) underneath the pick ups, so he took those out, and then shaved it to size, so its really flat now. There is still an incline in the strings from the fretboard (is that normal anyway?), but it is closer now. I make it about 4.5mm from previously about 8mm. How does that sound? I lack the expertise to know how healthy this guitar is now, but clearly its an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted June 26, 2015 Members Share Posted June 26, 2015 "Prop strips" sounds like shims. Sometimes guitars come from the factory with shims under the saddle, presumably to facilitate lowering the action by removing them. I'm not sure what you mean by "an incline in the strings from the fretboard" but if you mean that they gradually get higher off the fretboard along its length then yes, that's normal. The action on your Takamine may still be high but your tech couldn't take any more off the saddle. The saddle is shaved very low as is. It's hard to say whether the action is high or not when you're measuring in the wrong place. Measure from the top of the fret to the string at the 12th fret. By measuring at the 17th fret like you're doing, it throws the measurement off. The action will naturally be higher there unless there's something structurally wrong with your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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