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Why is playing acoustic sooo hard? ;)


t_e_l_e

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i'm playing now for 20+ years, but haven't recorded much of my acoustic playing, at least not with "quality" equipment

 

lately i try to lay down some acoustic tracks for a song of us. some finger picking and some strumming.

 

but with a good condenser mic every fret noise is heard, every inconsistency in how hard a note is picked stands out, even some picking noise is annoying, not to mention the unintentional knock on wood from time to time.

 

the condenser mic is unforgiving, every little mistake will be noticeable

 

playing/recording electric is so much easier, not every mistake counts on the final recording, some are even wanted and add some salt to it

 

but acoustic, every note needs to be perfect played and need a lot of practice before hand, even though if its just a couple of notes.

 

i guess i always have been a sloppy player, which never mattered for home wanking or camp fire gigs or even if the guitar is plugged into a PA,

but fetching the plain acoustic sound right is just hard work and my fingers are already aching

 

any tips or tricks out there?

beside practice, practice and even more practice? :D

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No tips or anything, but I pretty much agree. I'm a forty year acoustic player but just started with an electric and my reaction is "damn, this is easy".

 

The right guitar, properly setup with moderately light strings can make a difference but the pure physics of getting string energy to make a wooden box vibrate is going to take a lot more effort than jus disrupting the magnetic field around some coil of wire....

 

(I'll qualify all of that and say I'm not a very good electric player - mostly the same stuff as my acoustics, but its sure easier to barre and play up the neck and hide mistakes. I also still prefer my acoustics)

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I'm pretty much with Freeman. I've been playing acoustic (badly) for decades but only got into electric a couple of years ago. I play my electric as if it were a funny looking acoustic. I like the ease with which 9s or 10s play vs. the 12s on my main acoustic but I'm still an acoustic guy at heart.

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So you can hear yourself playing.

Big thing?

Deepends on what you expect?

Perfection like Tommy E? Then you will have to do it again. And again. And again. And again. And again.

Yes, you CAN even hear Tommy E sliding his fingers over the wound strings - at least sometimes.

If you do not plan to become the next Tommy E - it might to lower the expectations.

If you still can't win, pimp your equipment. Flatwounds (yes, there are Acoustic Flatwounds around) might help. Exlixir Polys might help, too...

 

 

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So you can hear yourself playing.

Big thing?

Deepends on what you expect?

Perfection like Tommy E? Then you will have to do it again. And again. And again. And again. And again.

Yes, you CAN even hear Tommy E sliding his fingers over the wound strings - at least sometimes.

If you do not plan to become the next Tommy E - it might to lower the expectations.

If you still can't win, pimp your equipment. Flatwounds (yes, there are Acoustic Flatwounds around) might help. Exlixir Polys might help, too...

 

 

its not that it must sound perfect without any flaws, but i know how it should sound like, i think it sounds great if i just play it, but when i'm listening to the recording, i see in the mirror how sloppy i really am and that it does not sound as indented and far away from good.

i still have to do a lot more practice to make it sound ok'ish...

 

and thats what i think makes playing acoustic hard

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Keep recording and try playing with a more relaxed grip on the strings when you fret. Recording helps you perfect finesse. Don't give up. Instead, record the same songs several times over the months and listen to them over time. You will hear the improvement and you will start getting better with your technique in leaps to new plateaus.

 

Remember, too, that perfect practice makes practice perfect. You will get better the more you play and the recordings will be a fabulous tool.

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No one says you HAVE TO use a condenser. Try a dynamic. The noises will still be there, but softened. Also, try positioning the mic differently, so it picks up less of the left hand.

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No one says you HAVE TO use a condenser. Try a dynamic. The noises will still be there' date=' but softened. Also, try positioning the mic differently, so it picks up less of the left hand.[/quote']

 

i could also use the piezo pickup or the dean markley sound hole pick up i have, but they do not sound nearly as good as the condenser mic :)

 

good point about mic positioning. i currently have it around half a meter away from the guitar "pointing" at the 12 fret. any advice what else i could try?

 

but if the fretting and picking noise is louder than the notes played it cannot help either :D

 

i need to practice more...

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Practice, get feedback from others. Most people are not going to really be put off by fret-squeaks etc, so being your own worst critic isn't helpful (hard to avoid, though). Use coated strings like Elixirs, they cut the amount of squeaking down dramatically.

 

What DAW are you recording into? I use Logic, and can set up a loop for the number of bars I need to play. The loop starts over, and if I've muffed a take, I just keep going until I am relaxed enough to get a decent take. I can end up with 10 takes, and can then choose the best and discard the rest. Or, if I want to cheat, I can edit the best bits from each take into one 'bestest' take. This helps with my 'red-light-a-phobia.' Basically, though, turn the red light on and just play until you get what you want.

 

 

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Practice, get feedback from others. Most people are not going to really be put off by fret-squeaks etc, so being your own worst critic isn't helpful (hard to avoid, though). Use coated strings like Elixirs, they cut the amount of squeaking down dramatically.

 

What DAW are you recording into? I use Logic, and can set up a loop for the number of bars I need to play. The loop starts over, and if I've muffed a take, I just keep going until I am relaxed enough to get a decent take. I can end up with 10 takes, and can then choose the best and discard the rest. Or, if I want to cheat, I can edit the best bits from each take into one 'bestest' take. This helps with my 'red-light-a-phobia.' Basically, though, turn the red light on and just play until you get what you want.

 

 

i use cubase, and the song i currently working on has the same chord pattern throughout the whole song,

but thx i haven't thought i could just loop one pattern to do the more takes ofthe same, instead of playing the song from beginning to end...

 

the looping thing might be easier to do....

in cubase is your friend for this, which loops the selected audio part

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Well, by looping I mean that it records multiple tracks within the loop, not re-writing each take when you begin again. Anyways, it is a way that works for me to get over the tenseness when I turn on the red light. I just sit comfortably on my couch and play. And again, the noises are most apparent to you, not to anyone else who will listen. Also, I always found that if I added too much reverb, it accentuated the squeaking, so I tend to leave my acoustic guitars relatively dry. And again, practice, practice, practice.

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i loop the part of the song where i want to add some acoustic part to it, hit the record button, then i can play this part over and over again while recording and cubase makes for every loop its own audio part, so i have then say 10 versions of it if i play the loop ten times, until i have played it good enough...

 

i only used the loop feature once for recording before, normally i use it only for mixing, to hear the same part over and over again and make fine adjustments just for that part

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Having an acoustic setup with really low action is critical to getting good feel and sound, fast fret will help reduce string noise, as will flatwounds. The dexterity of a faster right hand will help too. Picking speed and accuracy is the key to articulation and ring or finger pad contact and pressure if you're fingerstyle.

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I'm pretty much with Freeman. I've been playing acoustic (badly) for decades but only got into electric a couple of years ago. I play my electric as if it were a funny looking acoustic. I like the ease with which 9s or 10s play vs. the 12s on my main acoustic but I'm still an acoustic guy at heart.

I also played acoustic for a good many years then started getting more into electrics

The problem I have is if I play just electric and then go back to acoustic I realize how sloppy I was getting. Acoutics keep you playing right

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Keith Richards, in his autobiography, basically says that an aspiring guitarist should first learn on an acoustic before moving to electric. As this is more or less how I started, I wholeheartedly agree. These days, I play my acoustics far more often than my electrics, to the point of considering downsizing my electric collection by 2 or 3.

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^glenn i started with acoustic and played over 10 years acoustic only before i put my hands on an electric (as poor student i couldn't afford one, and an amp aso).

 

never the less it still made me a sloppy player, and how sloppy i really am, i just realized 20 years later when i started to record acoustic guitar for the "first" time :D

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i'm playing now for 20+ years, but haven't recorded much of my acoustic playing, at least not with "quality" equipment

 

lately i try to lay down some acoustic tracks for a song of us. some finger picking and some strumming.

 

but with a good condenser mic every fret noise is heard, every inconsistency in how hard a note is picked stands out, even some picking noise is annoying, not to mention the unintentional knock on wood from time to time.

 

Condensers tend to be more revealing of high frequency detail than the other types of microphones, but unfortunately I don't think switching to a dynamic moving coil or ribbon mic is going to solve your problems either - it would just give you a less detailed sound, but you'll probably still hear the mistakes.

 

There are some things engineers use to help. A bit of compression can help even out the inconsistency in note volume, and a bit of volume automation in the mix can take that even further if needed. Picking noise and string squeak issues can be reduced with the use of something like Finger-Ease or talcum powder on your hands, or edited out. As far as the unintended knock on wood, you can either leave those in and let them add a bit of character (if the timing is right or it just feels natural to you and doesn't sound too obtrusive, distracting or out of place), or you can punch in to get rid of them. The modern equivalent would be to do three or four takes and "comp" the best parts together to make a single, composite "take."

 

You don't think your musical heroes are actually playing all the tracks on all of their recordings flawlessly every time, do you? :) I guarantee that the majority of the music you listen to utilizes recording techniques like that. Unless you're a glutton for punishment, you might as well too. If you do want to do it the hard way, I respect that - the answer is to practice your tail off until you can consistently play it exactly the way you want to hear it.

 

the condenser mic is unforgiving, every little mistake will be noticeable

 

ALL microphones are unforgiving, and potentially can reveal any and all mistakes. :idea::)

 

playing/recording electric is so much easier, not every mistake counts on the final recording, some are even wanted and add some salt to it

 

but acoustic, every note needs to be perfect played and need a lot of practice before hand, even though if its just a couple of notes.

 

There's no getting around it - acoustic guitar is a physically more demanding instrument. The strings are heavier, and harder to fret. As Freeman said, you have to generate - and carefully control, I might add - enough energy to drive that wooden box, and it's going to be harder than playing an electric with much lighter strings and electronic amplification. Extra practice is certainly not going to hurt your acoustic playing, that's for sure!

 

i guess i always have been a sloppy player, which never mattered for home wanking or camp fire gigs or even if the guitar is plugged into a PA,

but fetching the plain acoustic sound right is just hard work and my fingers are already aching

 

any tips or tricks out there?

beside practice, practice and even more practice? :D

 

One thing that will improve sloppy playing is getting called on it, and recording will do that better than anything short of a good teacher. Playback will point the problems out to you. Record for long enough and your awareness will increase - you'll start to catch yourself making those mistakes as they happen, and being more aware of them and trying to keep them from happening - and all of that will happen over time if you record more often. It's like playing with a metronome. Your time may be weak, but if you start incorporating a metronome or drum machine into your practice sessions your time is bound to start improving. The little buzzes and glitches that wouldn't matter a bit live will become more apparent to you, as well as the reasons why they're happening, an you will start to correct them and become a cleaner player. That takes work, practice and time... in the meantime, the best approach for your current recording is probably to play as cleanly as you can and try to comp the best parts together.

 

Have you done much comping in a DAW TELE? If not, maybe I can take a look for you. I'd need three or four takes done as well as you reasonably can do, and I can try to comp something together for you. No charge, but if it works out I might want to use it as an article example on comping acoustics if that would be okay with you.

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i loop the part of the song where i want to add some acoustic part to it, hit the record button, then i can play this part over and over again while recording and cubase makes for every loop its own audio part, so i have then say 10 versions of it if i play the loop ten times, until i have played it good enough...

 

i only used the loop feature once for recording before, normally i use it only for mixing, to hear the same part over and over again and make fine adjustments just for that part

 

This sort of alternate takes / playlists is essentially what I was talking about. Instead of playing the loop over and over and recording each pass until you "have played it good enough", you can take the best parts of each of those multiple takes and combine them into a single "super take." Trust me, that's done all the time in record production - even among very, very good players and singers.

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actually i started this thread as my try on a (fun) rant about acoustic playing to see what reactions i get here :D

 

i'm a bit surprised that there are not lots of "stop whining, practice until you have your sh*t together" responses

 

quite the opposite, a lot of useful information is here, most of it not entirely new to me, but as with the looping example, i should have thought on this about my self, but haven't

 

Have you done much comping in a DAW TELE? If not, maybe I can take a look for you. I'd need three or four takes done as well as you reasonably can do, and I can try to comp something together for you. No charge, but if it works out I might want to use it as an article example on comping acoustics if that would be okay with you.

 

thx for the offer, i do comping all the time and i have no fear to use it :)

and for the stuff i'm currently working on, those are only short acoustic parts, just a view notes at a time and its embarrassing to me not to be able to play it right.

and i guess this will not make a good comping showcase material, as it is not much material

 

currently my biggest issue is having time. with a 2 month old newborn and a 5 year old daughter at home there is not much time for practice. i'm lucky if a make 2-3 hours a week into the rehearsal room for playing and if other band members show also up we play band stuff, again no practice time on the acoustic.

 

what was an eye opener for me after i started this acoustic recording session is, that it takes a lot of effort to make it right.

 

its not enough to play the right notes in the right order in the right timing, you also need to avoid all unwanted noises and play the notes as clean as you can to get good results.

 

but its good to know that i'm not alone with this and i hope this info here helps others who struggle as well :)

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