Members bigald18 Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 The Harmony Central Forums are a privelage for us to use. It was put here not for our benefit EVER, but, for the possible profit benefit of the Music Stores involved. At present, I have played guitar for 53 years and am 66 years old. I don't boast about all the fancy guitars I have because even if you play a piece of junk it's really the musician that makes the instrument and not vice-versa. I have given loads of business to MF over the years, Like a few on this forum I've built guitars. Years ago this actually was a forum. There were many luthiers on it, many of whom I still stay in touch with. There were many professional, semi pro, and amateur musicians on this forum as well as the newer folks who came here to learn. All were welcome to stay or not to as they saw fit. The guitar is a high attrition instrument because any guy that has a dream of being a star tries to play and I'm sure most of them fall by the wayside. It's not the fault of the people in this forum. People come to this forum as new guitar players and give up the guitar so they do not come back. If anyone that has any experience with this forum ever set up a curve of active members on it I am sure they will find (and any of you who have been "regulars" for a numbers will agree) that the membership drops off sharply at the time that the HC management first dumped the old format for the website and initiated a new program. The new website and software never worked. There's no other way to say it. I don't care whose fault it was. What I do care about is that many extremely talented and loyal members were lost forever in that shuffle, discouraged by their inability to communicate effectively through no fault of their own. Since that time the forum has floundered. The software has seen many reiterations over past couple of years. With each of those iterations we lost more people. Today we have a forum that exists with very few core members on a regular basis. Now the time has come to blame the high turnover of members on the membership conduct. Yes we used to have fights. Yes. we lost some members because of them. Most fights were resolved BY THE MEMBERS themselves rather than by management. Everyone realized back then that you can't beat a membership into submission. As is usual in most corporate environments, those in power blame their own failures on any one else they can find to save their own butts and jobs. Most members came here because they couldn't stand AGF BECAUSE OF the police state type atmosphere that did and still does exist there. Now we as members are apparently going to be faced with the same tactics here. Many,I'm sure, will leave, and management will feel that they got rid of the troublemakers. Unfortunately, they will also find that their membership has continued to decline and their is no one left to blame it on but themselves. I'm just coming back after being banned for I guess a week because management didn't like what I had to say and the way I said it. That's their perogative. It's their forum, not mine. In the past I would have missed the forum. Today, I didn't even think about it while I was banned and I probably will be banned again for starting this thread. Harmony Central and the music stores involved will eventually run out of time and scapegoats for their problems. It's sad, but, the end result for all will be the extinction of all involved. BigAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 It,definitely doesn't have the draw it used to and most likely won't for the simple reason that they don't give a sheit... That and they supress creativity at every chance they get... that's the way the corporate forum crumbles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 I'm sorry you feel that way BigAl - this place feels the same as ever to me. I think you're maybe just bored with the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest admos Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Big Al, If you makes you feel any better, we're deciding by committee which topics to move. This one is obviously a rant, but it will stay here until the committee decides. Likely early next week. In the meantime I ask the question, what part of your message makes newcomers want to stick around? IMO you're pushing your own agenda at the expense of the forum's general health. And yes we still encourage debates and yes even arguments, as long as they stay respectful. After all those are what make the place interesting. However, rants like this topic are the same as crapping your pants at a dinner party and not expecting the host or any of the guest to complain about the smell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 There's something many here and at other sites aren't taking into consideration where membership drop-off is concerned. Whether in the member ranks or in the site offices, no one is bringing up the fact that the forum has matured. It's no longer the giddy novelty of striking up friendships with like-minded people. Those days are gone. Now it's a place to visit and read miles and miles of more of the same. When the first indication of boredom began no one really noticed it. It was when some bozo brought up the possibility of bridge pins affecting tone. From that day forward the bulk of the purpose of the forum became a new work-in-progress under many bozo pen knives. As the purpose was slowly whittled away by similar forays into the ethereal unanswerable, the focus of the guitar itself lost impetus and the discussions became further and further removed. There was no logic to discussing something as subjective as the purpose for an acoustic guitar. There never really was. If the sonic synergies of varying constituent parts is a logical discussion then I will leave you with it. I just play the damned things. Anyway, OT discussion became institutionalized and other bozos coming in to rescue it have all cried no joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 I'm sorry you feel that way BigAl - this place feels the same as ever to me. . . . ^ This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigald18 Posted February 28, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 Big Al, If you makes you feel any better, we're deciding by committee which topics to move. This one is obviously a rant, but it will stay here until the committee decides. Likely early next week. In the meantime I ask the question, what part of your message makes newcomers want to stick around? IMO you're pushing your own agenda at the expense of the forum's general health. And yes we still encourage debates and yes even arguments, as long as they stay respectful. After all those are what make the place interesting. However, rants like this topic are the same as crapping your pants at a dinner party and not expecting the host or any of the guest to complain about the smell. Yes this is a rant. What part of YOUR statement promotes new membership? The smell of YOUR PANTS? Or is it your last statement? Very dignified for an administrator! You should be BANNED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted February 28, 2015 Members Share Posted February 28, 2015 Admins arguing with the members probably doesn't help much either ... Reminds me of a SNL skit ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 What a bunch of whiny humans. I missed where "management " stopped conversation. There are about 10 of you regularly posting here, and most of it is to see how clever you can be. You're not, though this is only one person's opinion, you 10 do the whiny part olympically well. Gosh, they made you jump through hoops so you could swear. That's just terrible, man, you should be pi....I mean urinated. Y'know, that bothered me not even a little. Now that all the old regs that actually knew stuff have left the building, and there are no longer coat-tails to hang on to, with the exception of 2 (that I see, and post sparingly) you have decided to place blame in odd places. Nope, sorry. It's YOUR turn to up your game. There's not many guys with any semblance of chops that look at this place as anything but a car wreck in the rear-view. Consider the Vbadmin the wrecker wading thru the glass to pull it away and clear that crap off the road. Now grow a set, and leave or be productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 . It was when some bozo brought up the possibility of bridge pins affecting tone.. I think that was me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 No. You have it all wrong. The moderation does not make the forum, the people do. The people that mattered, and there were, at one time, DROVES of them, moved on. Partly due to the lack of moderation. But THEY MOVED ON. That is a salient part of this equation. This forum, thus far, is nothing but irritating and un-interesting WHINING. Tell me me why anyone would choose to make this a destination from...say the AGF, and read this, nothing but bull crap whining. Why would I want to devote my time to try to engage an obvious "clique" of 10 posters That now control the forum? Serious question BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigald18 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 To Bozo: I think the stuff you've done here is great and you're one of the few guys around that I think knows what they're talking about. I'm not a regular at all anymore but I really haven't gotten very much out of many threads here over the past year at least. I don't respond to 99% of them. What got my craw is that I used a word in a post that is in the dictionary and it was censored. Discussions on bridge pins (while causing major fights for some odd reason) were actually GOOD because it gave members some knowledge for and against to choose whether to replace bridge pins or not. Discussions that we've had relative to guitar making, wood types and their tonal qualities, setup of guitars, different brands of strings and the tonal quality and longevity of different gauges of strings have all been great topics. I also wholeheartedly agree with what Jamesp is saying. I have no idea what the solution is anymore. My usefulness as far as guitar player goes is pretty much over with at this point because of impaired hands and 100% deafness in one ear and about a 40% loss in the other. I do still enjoy a free discussion of the subject. I do hope the problems are eventually resolved but am not hopeful that they will be. BigAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 Al, you may want to consider using paragraphs when you decide to rant. I caught pretty much nothing of that, though I'm sure others read every word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 And, just curious, who TF is Bozo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 No. You have it all wrong. The moderation does not make the forum, the people do. The people that mattered, and there were, at one time, DROVES of them, moved on. Partly due to the lack of moderation. But THEY MOVED ON. That is a salient part of this equation. This forum, thus far, is nothing but irritating and un-interesting WHINING. Tell me me why anyone would choose to make this a destination from...say the AGF, and read this, nothing but bull crap whining. Why would I want to devote my time to try to engage an obvious "clique" of 10 posters That now control the forum? Serious question BTW. No reason at all. But, is there a reason to expect members to conduct themselves in a strictly on-topic (any topic) manner? All forums idle along with chit-chat BS until another on-topic question comes along for discussion. Then it's back to that idling engine again of unrelated quibble. Where's the harm in that? When someone messes with it because he wants to see nothing but on-topic relevance then he doesn't understand people - period. And, btw (X2), you're usually the prominent rebel disruption par excellence. What gives? Decided to create a signature rant with post-event timing to have the last word? Where the fuck were you during the vbadmin stupidity? Coulda used you. Your sobriety is usually pretty spot-on. You're late. The forum is almost back to normal with material now. Serious answer, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 Privilage is a privelege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 Here's one. You're one of the 10. Yeah, sorry, no one can wade thru your bloviating to really understand..you get that?..understand what the eff you're driving at. You, with the actual word power and seeming understanding of all things worldly, fail to call a dick a dick. You, my friend, drive and help obfuscate this forum. And if you pretend to fail what was typed milliseconds before what was just typed, you are simply a poseur . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 And, I'm done. As much as I'd love to see communication between musicians going on, the 10 need to back off, or join a knitting forum. I do not envy Vbadmin as long as you 10 keep posting your whining and dissension. I'm embarrassed to have posted in the first place, but...beer...so I think, as all the buzzed do, that that's a good reason. Goodby, and good luck. And you have some chops, that's what makes this sad. This shoulda been edited in the previous post, but...beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 Privilage is a privelege. oh kiss my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigald18 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 Read Freeman Kellers post LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigald18 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 Neal, why don't you and Idunno just kiss and make up, stop correcting each others spelling and taking pot shots at each other. Idunno, I agree that we don't need strict supervision but I will say this: Every time I get onto this forum you have some sort of absurd thread that you've started that says nothing of substance but does complain about everything. They are always antagonistic. I find that to be a real turnoff and it's one of the reasons I'm not here very often. As far as chit chat goes there is a large difference between a friendly off topic post and topics that do nothing but irritate others. Neal, you need to drink less while you're posting (LOL). "Kiss my ass" never won an argument. Honestly folks, my s--t don't stink and I know what I'm saying. You're all wrong but still great guys but it would still be nice to see an occasional topic about acoustic guitar construction or performance and less of off topic stuff. Cursing--I really don't give a s--t, but there is no necessity for some of the four letter slang words that are being used to be here. They are offensive to many. BigAl .png' alt='16x16_smiley-happy.png.a1cb19ed0a13aa15d5339265141016d6.png' alt='smiley-happy'>.png'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 oh kiss my ass. Over my priveledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 It's 'Privilege,' boys and girls. I don't see Bigald's rant as very toxic, certainly not as bad as Admin's defensive and threatening response. He makes some good points, and whatever tone is perceived by others as inappropriate I see merely as passionate. Any BBS that is run for corporate interests will be subordinate to those interests. Corporations are not bastions of free-speech, never have been, never will be. So, corporate types trying to run things with a corporate mentality are strangers in a strange land. IMO, forums like this should be owned and run by those who are passionate about the exchange of ideas and information, and the development of relationships that this medium permits. Trying to make money out of these places is exceedingly problematic, especially since it is so easy now for anyone to start up their own forums. As for moderation, the lightest touch is the best modus operandi. Trust me, having owned a BBS, I know this for a fact. Whoever's idea it was to change formats here and do it so grossly incompetently is directly responsible for the drastic fall-off in participation here. That is obvious to anyone who has been around here a few years. HC forums used to be one of the largest group of forums for musicians that I've ever come across. It isn't anymore. Stating these things is merely stating facts. My 2 farthings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 It's 'Privilege' date='' boys and girls.[/quote'] Only in distant privillages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted March 1, 2015 Members Share Posted March 1, 2015 Big Al, If you makes you feel any better, we're deciding by committee which topics to move. This one is obviously a rant, but it will stay here until the committee decides. Likely early next week. In the meantime I ask the question, what part of your message makes newcomers want to stick around? IMO you're pushing your own agenda at the expense of the forum's general health. And yes we still encourage debates and yes even arguments, as long as they stay respectful. After all those are what make the place interesting. However, rants like this topic are the same as crapping your pants at a dinner party and not expecting the host or any of the guest to complain about the smell. To crap one's pants at a dinner party might be considered a faux pas. Or it could be considered an act of rebellion. It depends on the context, I guess...which way the wind is blowing, so to speak. And then, let's not leave out the possibility of cross-cultural and linguistic misunderstandings. With me, it makes little difference as my own doesn't stink. But was it a covered dish affair? BTW, bridge pins are damned important. I use petrified Pterodactyl claws. And I will never switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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