The Downside of Parlor Guitars

[Todd M]

Hi guys,

I'm new to the forum and I thought I'd throw this question out there. Do you guys know of any downsides to parlor guitars? I know they aren't quite as loud and sometimes the body meets the neck at the 12th fret which is sort of limiting. I'm playing gigs that sometimes last for 4 hours and thinking about getting a guitar that's a little smaller. I also struggle with some carpal tunnel issues anyways.

 

Are there any issues or anything that I need to be weary of?

Sustain, installing soundhole pickups, etc.

 

Thanks for your help!

[Samilyn]

Hello and Welcome, Todd

 

Personally I wouldn't use such a small guitar for gigging unless playing a very small, intimate venue. Lovely things, those parlors, with a very sweet sound, but I don't think they've got enough punch unless you install a p'up in one and plug in.

 

My preference for p'up has always been passive, such as K&K Pure (several models to choose from). I've installed a few of them and it's not difficult. Then, depending on your amp or PA system, you might or might not need a preamp.

 

If a parlor proves too small, but a dread is too big, think about something mid-size such as an OM model.

 

Hmm.....short-scale guitars (neck meets body at 12th). I can't say anything bad about them at all, but your choice ultimately depends on how far up the neck you customarily play. If you're way up high a lot and have to strain to reach the notes you're after, then you want to stay away from those.

 

As to your carpal tunnel issues, you have to moderate your playing or it's going to flare up. It's not so much about the guitar itself as it is the number of hours you play and the amount of repetitive motion. Additionally, take good care of yourself after playing. Ice packs and NSAIDs do help. During a gig, might help if you put on a wrist brace during breaks between sets, completely rest your wrist, then do some good after-gig care.

 

Hope this helps. I'm sure others here will have some more great input for you.

[Idunno]

The smallest I'll go is 00. I can't get comfortable wrapped around anything smaller. Plus, small guitar, small sound. They can be made loud but the voice is still a small sound. If I was going plugged I wouldn't be too worried but I'd go with a soundhole mag rather than a UST or SBT Piezo bug. I wouldn't be satisfied amplifying a small sound with the latter. The best, smallest size and sounding guitar I ever played was a Larrivee OO-05.

[Freeman Keller]

First, welcome to HCAG. Second, your timing with this question is interesting - I built a parlor a few years ago and I've been asked to build two more so this size guitar is fresh in my mind.

 

Before we go any farther lets define some terms - "parlor" means a lot of different things to different folks., Unlike "OM" or "00" or "Grand Auditorium" or any of those other well defined guitar sizes, parlors can be anything from the very small (Martin size 2 or terz) up to include the so called "small bodies". Let me give you my definition and we'll see if that is what you want.

 

For me a parlor is no larger than a Martin size 0 (which is smaller than most classicals). It is short scale (24.5 or shorter) and 12 frets clear. Here is a picture of a single, double and triple ought (0, 00, and 000) - all which are "small bodies" but only the 0 is a parlor. It has a 24.0 scale and is very lightly braced - I modeled this one after Joan Baez's little 0-42.

 

 

The term "parlor" came from those turn of the 20th century guitars that first started using steel strings and were usually played in small intimate settings, like the parlor of your house (at that time mandolins and banjos were the string instruments in bands). Martin made many, as did Washburn, Lion and Healy and others - some were ladder braced but many were X braced. They were often strung with either gut or steel - the represent kind of a transition between the two.

 

OK, if that is the kind of guitar that you are thinking of, let me give you my impression. First, they are wonderful to hold and play - they sit nicely on your lap and its easy to wrap your arms around. They are a little less loud than a larger guitar and certainly have less bass - they tend to be focused on the mids. Many of them sound kind of "boxy" or bluesy - they don't have the complexity of a larger top plate and air mass. I caution anyone considering this kind of guitar to play it and make sure the sound is what you want.

 

Short scale means less tension which can be a slight disadvantage if you downtune or play slide. I play mostly 12 fretters and don't find this to be a problem at all - how many times do you really go above 12? (If you do then this is certainly the wrong size). Many of them have slightly wider fretboards - that can be a problem for people used to other guitars and might be an issue with your carpal tunnel. I think they are very well suited to folk, roots and blues - the lack of bass and more fundamental tone means that they might not be as good for modern style of music.

 

Installing a pup is about the same as any other guitar but since they do have smaller soundholes and are relatively shallow it is a bit more of a hassle getting your hand inside. I personally don't like soundhole pickups but you might need to search for a slightly smaller one. The K&K Pure Mini is a good choice but there are others.

 

As I said earlier, I have a customer that wants one built and I've tried to tell him that he might be a little disappointed in the sound (I'll do my best but there are some limitations). He already has an OM and a 00, plus a couple of Taylor GS Minis (which is still larger than a parlor) so he has the bases pretty well covered. My suggestion if you are not sure is to get out and play all the smaller sizes - let your ears and hands guide you.

[DocD3F4U17]

anything is better than a tele or stratacoustic

[Todd M]

These are some really informative answers! Thanks very much guys. I have a whole lot to think about. I didn't even know OO guitars existed. Maybe I've played one, but I never knew that was the name. I have a OOO guitar that I'm pretty happy with and an OM. Oddly enough the OM bothers me during those long gigs.

 

I have soundhole pickups in both of those guitars and can't really complain. But I do use K & K's in my license plate guitar and I love it.

 

Freeman thanks for the history and the pictures!

 

Samilyn thanks for the advice on the Carpal Tunnel.

 

I'm glad I put this question out there.

 

 

 

[Freeman Keller]

. I didn't even know OO guitars existed. Maybe I've played one, but I never knew that was the name. I have a OOO guitar that I'm pretty happy with and an OM. Oddly enough the OM bothers me during those long gigs.

 

 

They would be "ought" as in the number zero, not "oh" as in the letter (however people do refer to them as "double oh"). Martin numbers are pretty straight forward - 0, 00, 000, and 0000 are increasing size, 1, 2, 3... are smaller than 0 and the larger the number the smaller the guitar. Sort of like shotgun pellets or wire sizes. To me the confusing sizes are the named ones - is "concert" bigger or smaller than "auditorium"? What does "small jumbo" mean? Martins OM (stands for orchestra model) is roughly the same size as a 000 but is always 14 frets clear and long scale. FWIW, an 00 is roughly the same size as a classical guitar.

 

Here is one more way to look at size - here is the wood for the new guitar and I've drawn 0, 00 and 000 profiles to see how they fit.

 

 

[Todd M]

Awesome! Thanks again Freeman! I appreciate the picture man!

 

 

[guitarist21]

FK and Sami about said it all. I'd just add that if you're experiencing some discomfort, you might be served to experiment a bit with neck shape in addition to nut width. If you know of any Recording King dealers in your area, they make a variety of smaller bodied guitars with different neck shapes. They make a slot head parlor that has a rounder neck, and an OM style guitar that's 1 3/4" at the nut (if memory serves) but is a slimmer neck. The Dirty 30's parlors they make are not as wide at the nut but are comfortably chunky in shape.

[katopp]

Not being of "professional" player grade, but still I think it's important to mention fretboard radius and neck shape in addition to all of the other factors. I rarely find body sizes bothering me. I happily pluck away on anything bigger than a 000. Anything smaller tends to be too small to hold comfortably for me. But I'm 6'5" and 260 lbs.

But some wide flat fretboards really kill the joy for me. Add some fretboard radius (16' is ok for me) and things get more and more easy to handle....

[Grant Harding]

Try to get your hands on a L'arrivee parlor guitar. I've never played another that sounded better.

[Phil O'Keefe]

anything is better than a tele or stratacoustic

 

Truth. Acoustically both are just awful IMHO.

[Emory]

Ok, heresy time. Strung up my 3/4 size Crafter a/e traveler guitar. 23" scale, maybe displacement similar to parlor. Tons of fun, smaller size does emphasize delicate tones.. but plugged in keeps that plus "tada!" BASS. So can have both worlds, sort of like ballet hippos in Fantasia maybe, but hey..... parlors went out in architecture when electricity came in. What I am proposing is stepping outside the box, try some unusual combos. I'll go take my meds now, I promise....

[Idunno]

Plugged. The universal elixir.

[Tony Burns]

Todd, Brands vary from one to the other -the arc of the fretboard, the thickness of the body

and some have a rounded edge ( forget it's name ) so id try everything you can get your

hands on . in your situation - i think the right pickup would make any guitar sound better,

especially because your using the instrument for your livelyhood . i also like Durable instruments

with a decent resale value -Id get yourself a great case for what ever you buy .

( but i bet you already know that ) By the way Freeman is a super guy who really knows what hes talking about

hes been a Forum friend for along time . He also has a reputation as being very knowledgeable on Guitar

building and repair .

[Todd M]

Thanks so much guys. I've got my eye on the Breedlove Passport Parlors, but they aren't out for a few weeks. I guess the stores get them a few weeks after NAMM. The way the pickups sound will be a huge part of it for me. So we'll see how it see how it feels and go from there. I appreciate all of the great advice!

[Idunno]

If it mounts the LR Baggs EAS VTR element I'll be curious about it, too. It boasts elimination of the Piezo quackiness, and states why, but I'd have to hear it.

[flatpickle]

I don't know your budget, but if you're looking for a lifelong solution to this problem, you might consider a guitar custom-made to address the situation. Mario Proulx's "comfort dreadnought" or "OM/D" comes to mind. He makes killer good guitars, and they give a frequency response more typical of what you expect to hear from an acoustic guitar, rather than the unique tone of a parlor guitar.

 

http://www.proulxguitars.com/omd.htm

 

I have no financial interest, I've just met the luthier and played several of his guitars.

 

 

[Freeman Keller]

Todd, I was visiting my daughter last week and brought her little size 0 home with me for a while. I wanted to let my customer try it and make sure he was happy before we cut into a lovely set of valuable wood. I played it for almost two hours last night - I had forgotten how charming that little guitar really is.

 

I haven't played the Breedlove parlors but their standard models are very nice - I think you will be happy with your decision.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Not being of "professional" player grade, but still I think it's important to mention fretboard radius and neck shape in addition to all of the other factors. I rarely find body sizes bothering me. I happily pluck away on anything bigger than a 000. Anything smaller tends to be too small to hold comfortably for me. But I'm 6'5" and 260 lbs.

But some wide flat fretboards really kill the joy for me. Add some fretboard radius (16' is ok for me) and things get more and more easy to handle....

 

Good point - the neck matters a lot more than the size of the body does IMO - at least in terms of playability and comfort.

 

I have pretty small hands, so while I've always owned and play full-scale guitars (as well as a few shorter scale - 23.5-24" - models) I have always been pretty particular about the neck dimensions and profile; those factors make all the difference between a comfortable to play guitar and one that will cause my hands to fatigue quickly and cramp up.

 

Thinner necks (front to back) are generally better for me. I also like necks with slim "shoulders." It isn't just about overall thickness from the center of the fretboard to the center of the back of the neck; I like for the sides to either side of the neck to be slender. I prefer Gibson's SlimTaper neck profile over their rounded 50s profile. A D shaped or U shaped profile usually won't work very well for me, no matter how thin it is. A C-shaped profile or even a soft V works much better. I'm less particular about fretboard radius. As far as width, I prefer a fairly standard width - if the neck is too narrow, it becomes much harder to fret things accurately - my fingertips don't have enough room to avoid hitting what I don't want to hit.

 

Basically short snausage fingers like I have are a drag for a guitarist... but it becomes much less of an issue with a neck that is proportioned as well as possible for your hands - at least that's been my experience. You just have to try out a bunch of different guitars until you find what is most comfortable for you.

[Freeman Keller]

Traditionally, even tho "parlors" usually were shorter scale they often had fairly wide flat fretboards - remember that this was a time of transition from gut to steel strings. If they are built in the style of Washburn or Lyon & Healy expect that kind of neck. Newer ones that aren't trying to be historically correct can have whatever kind of modern neck the builder wants to put on it - as always play before you buy.

 

I haven't played one of these but its kind of intriguing - about 500 buck street price. It does have a longer scale and 1-3/4 nut (both which I like). Drop a K&K Pure Mini in it and you (might) have a sweet little guitar

 

http://www.recordingking.com/product...models/rp1-16c

[guitarcapo]

Parlor guitars seem to have a boxy sound when strummed to me.

 

Not as satisfying as strumming a big Jumbo with that extra bass and overtones.

 

 

They seem to excel when fingerpicking and playing complex "jazz" chords where you need more clarity and separation between the notes because of complex harmony or when you have a bass line counterpoint to something higher up you are playing at the same time.

They feedback less when amplified and are lighter weight. It's good to have one small parlor in your arsenal for music that works to a small box's strengths.

[Tony Burns]

Todd, i own three vintage parlours -they are superb sounding instruments -maybe not much in the volume area but in the tone area their exceptional -my guess is that it has something to do with the fact their 12 fretters.

[Todd M]

Thanks again guys for the awesome input! I'm keeping my options open. I'll let you know what sort of guitar I end up with.

[Delmont]

The OM is easier than the OOO because the neck is shorter. So the OM strings are looser, which makes them easier to press and bend.