When 6 strings aren't enough..

[kwakatak]

Over at AGF one of the enablers was looking for validation of his greed and called for others to list their lust. I felt inclined to chime in and realized that while I would like a few more 6 string guitars of varying tonewoods combination and body sizes I really have a hankering for more diversity than even that. Sure, I had a slight bout with GAS for a mandolin but when I handled one it felt too toy like. Then this past week I tried a 12 string (Taylor 150e) and was seduced by the different tone in a familiar feel. Then my mind rewound to a time when I tried a Taylor baritone with 8 strings and I realized that I was in trouble. Will this GAS ever pass or must I hold it in and hear the pain?

[DeepEnd]

FWIW, I talked myself into wanting a 12-string when I was in college. It was my only guitar for many years but it was a pain to tune and eventually developed structural issues (belly bulge). I've since bought a couple of good electronic tuners and put extra light strings on it but I haven't played it in years. A baritone might be cool but I don't know that I'd want extra strings any more.

[Idunno]

I came up on 12 string (Guild F412) and that's all I had for the early days of playing. Cured, I switched to 6. I've since picked up a couple 12-ers (Martin D12-35 and a Norman B20-12) but sold them off before you could say I'd explored them fully. The Martin was a flat board, 12-fretter and muted by contrast to other 12's, and the Norman would shatter glass at 20 paces it was so jangly. The techniques I was exploring at the time were way too busy for a 12 to handle without sounding brash. Anyway, they're great when you're in that frame of mind.

[katopp]

Always had at least one 12 and possibly will always have one.

Haven't played a lot on the 12 lately, but I know it will be the flavour of the month again soon'ish.

[Freeman Keller]

The T 150 is getting good reviews, but you know you could also build one. A mandolin too. Let me lead you astray, er, help.

 

A friend has one of those 8 string baritone things - in my opinion its pretty much a one trick pony. But everyone needs a 12 string in their quiver.

[garthman]

I bought my first 12 string a few years ago. I wish I'd bought one earlier.

 

If I had to choose between a 6 or 12 string, the 6 string would win easily - but it's nice to have both

[katopp]

I own a doubleneck 6/12, too

[kwakatak]

The T 150 is getting good reviews' date=' but you know you could also build one. A mandolin too. Let me lead you astray, er, help. A friend has one of those 8 string baritone things - in my opinion its pretty much a one trick pony. But everyone needs a 12 string in their quiver.[/quote'] Don't tempt me, Freeman. I've back burnered the mandolin and student violin - and even a cajon made of plywood - ideas. I have the metal parts for a xylophone project that never got off the ground and that broken ukulele that was not received warmly. For now I'll keep plugging away at 6 string #2 and plan to make new box columns to replace the rotted ones on my front porch using the chop saw my wife bought me for my birthday. Oh - though I have ambitions to make a checkerboard for my little guy for Xmas as well as a wine serving table for my wife. We'll see how far THAT goes though. In the meantime, I'm starting to come back to earth on the 12 string. My wife and I have discussed purchasing another instrument that has 88 strings inside a large box because our 7yo is starting to show an interest. I also bought a small djembe for my 10yo.

[Idunno]

http://www.harmonycentral.com/news/harmans-digitech-debuts-mosaic-polyphonic-12-string-effect-pedal

[jamesp]

I have two friends who've got 12ers I could borrow. One Martin and another Guild. I'm just waiting on the right project. Having one around permanently doesn't seem like a must, but who knows? Having one around for a couple of weeks might change my mind.

[EdBega]

And then ... sometimes 6 strings are too many

[jamesp]

That's an excellent point. Not that many chords need six notes.

[Gary Blanchard]

I got my first 6-string in 1966 and my first 12-string in 1968. I went a number of years without a 12-string, but now a 12-string is probably my main guitar, though I prefer to alternate between the 6 and 12 during performances.

 

Oh, and GAS will always wait in the wings.

[jelloman]

I got my first 6-string in 1966 and my first 12-string in 1968. I went a number of years without a 12-string, but now a 12-string is probably my main guitar, though I prefer to alternate between the 6 and 12 during performances.

 

Oh, and GAS will always wait in the wings.

I was 1 year old when you got your first 6 string...

[DeepEnd]

. . . everyone needs a 12 string in their quiver.

Going to respectfully disagree. As mentioned, I've had a 12-string for years--bought it in Summer, 1974--and I never play it any more. I'd get rid of it except I promised our daughter, who doesn't play, that she'd inherit it someday. Some folks just don't need one. I'm one of them.

[jamesp]

Okay, but that still makes you pretty olde.

[Gary Blanchard]

I was 1 year old when you got your first 6 string...

Offa my lawn, you young whippersnapper.

[Gary Blanchard]

12-strings are certainly a matter of preference and choice. As I say, I had one in the 60's but didn't get another until 5 or 6 years ago. My brother, who was also a bass player, would only play a 12-string; I don't remember him ever owning a 6-string. As for me, I'm bi-stringual.

[Idunno]

Going to respectfully disagree. As mentioned, I've had a 12-string for years--bought it in Summer, 1974--and I never play it any more. I'd get rid of it except I promised our daughter, who doesn't play, that she'd inherit it someday. Some folks just don't need one. I'm one of them.

 

I, on the other hand, also purchased a 12er in 1974 prompting me to wonder why people even bothered playing 6-string guitars at all. It was a Guild F-412 and simply blew any 6-string in a jam out the door in every respect. Of course, I was young and ambitiously preoccupied making music where everyone else was trapped in cover work mode, meaning, I was bored with them by then. That guitar took me off into writing which I never suffered from. Everyone else I knew remained cover players. Sometimes the equipment alone is a calling unto itself for greater achievement. I probably learned more about making music with that guitar's sound leading it than I would have using the faulty D35 that preceded it.

[kwakatak]

Well, FWIW I could probably put a 12 string to use. I primarily play in church nowadays and the makeup of our "band" is pretty sparse. Right now there are two of us playing 6 string along with a piano player, a sax player and several women who sing soprano, another guy who sings bass and me who kind of fits into the tenor range (though I'm not a trained singer.)

 

The other guitar player is slightly older than me and started later in life but I'm slowly training him not to watch my strumming hand for the rhythm pattern. IMO sometimes it can sound pretty bad when two guitars try to play the same music but can't quite pull it off but this past month on a couple songs I played several chord progressions in different positions and he's starting to see the light. The next step is to proceed to 12 string to play the "higher" parts, a baritone to play the "lower" parts - or go completely off the reservation and break out the ukulele and fake some mando lines. There are so many "holes" to fill in our arrangements - though I must say that my Larrivee OM has been very versatile as the amp runs "hot" allowing me to accentuate the "bass" line (although it's an octave higher than it should be) and the K&K picks up percussion very well. Thanks to Gil I've borrowed heavily from Neil Young's technique these past few years.

 

Even still, if I were to play around the house with it I'd still have fun with it. I know several songs that were originally done in 12 string but the 6 stringers have been lacking.

[Idunno]

Check the ad on this page. It's cheaper than the actual guitar and probably, in the long run for your purposes, better than loading the actual guitar.

[kwakatak]

I appreciate the advice, but I don't really like using effects. It's just something else to come between what my fingers feel and what my ears tell me. That and the ambiguously labeled knobs require a patience when massaging the tone that gets in the way of the instant gratification that I seek when playing guitar. It's a big reason why I don't use a preamp or even record anymore. Even though I use an amp the settings never change.

[Idunno]

In a sense, I agree with you. It probably gives a good representation, and selective level of the octaves. That can be the only reason for the box at all. But...

 

I was putting a Taylor 356 (2 samples) through the paces Friday. Playing-wise, nuancing the octaves selectively with the thumb pick on the downstroke, because they're hidden from the fingernails on the upstroke (and even more so from bare flesh), is the only reason for even considering a 12-string. The G-octave, in particular, typically hides unless coaxed out with a flat pick or thumb pick. But, bare thumb on the octaves seriously diminishes their chances of balance in the mix.

 

The best use of a 12 takes into consideration a whole lot more than knocking out music in 6-string-playing fashion. Deft use of a flat pick on a 12 is a much better choice over bare fingerpicking.

 

BTW, the Taylors, which sound great to all I've read reviews from, are weak in their octave voicing. Better to get a Guild for a 12 string. Even the Norman B20-12 I had outstripped the Taylor octave voicing. Taylor was about the equivalent of the D12-35 Martin I had. As long as Guild has been making 12 strings you'd think all the others would have weighed in with competitive samples of their own by now. Nope.

 

The secret to fingerpicking the 12 string well is a working knowledge of the songs, where you want to accentuate the octaves in the mix and being able to get them ringing. That will greatly enhance the sound of any make of 12 string. Strumming away will jangle-jumble it all together, which is good if that's the sound you're looking for, (Moody Blues' Question on Question Of Balance album) but fingerpickers usually aren't. Chris Proctor demonstrates a 12 string better than anyone I've ever heard.

 

I have a lot of time on a 12 and that's why I moved away from it. It's usually more than a song needs and can easily compete with the vocals unless you're careful with the octaves.

[kwakatak]

I agree with the g string courses. The Baritone 8 has courses on the middle two strings and even with a flat pick I sometimes missed the narrower strings. I think they may have designed that intentionally; maybe they feel that the strings should only ring out if they are attacked aggressively. Regardless, I wouldn't presume to fingerpick on a 12. That would cut the trebles and IMO that's where a 12 should live in the mix.

[DeepEnd]

Here are a couple of ideas that involve your D16GT, which is a guitar you already have. First, you can make it a sort of poor man's baritone. 14's (heavy gauge) tuned to C# have about the same tension as 12's (lights) at concert pitch. 14's tuned to C have about the same tension as 11's tuned to concert pitch. It wouldn't be a real baritone but it might be different enough from your other guitarist to make the sound fuller. Or you could tune to Nashville and get a 12-stringy sound. Either way, all you need is a pickup for your D16GT and a set of strings, which is a lot cheaper than a new guitar. You could also "convert" your Strat into a quasi baritone by using heavier strings. More room to play around because electric strings tend to be lighter. A set of 12's tuned to B would be equivalent to 9's at concert pitch. Either way, you're using a guitar you already have.