Members gardo Posted September 22, 2014 Members Share Posted September 22, 2014 I have two guitars I bought used that have Fishman under saddle pickups a 6 string and a 12 string. . The pickups work great but they do change the acoustic tone . My main complaint is that the high E and B strings just don't have a clean ring . I'm sure this is because the saddle sits on the pickup and to a certain point that's just the way it is, I would like to brighten the tone on the 6 string . The guitar is an Epiphone Masterbilt and I'm currently using Martin Marquis 12's. The silk wrap on the Marquis strings is probably not helping .I love the way it plays, just haven't found the right sound yet. Any thoughts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted September 22, 2014 Members Share Posted September 22, 2014 Take the strings off and the saddle out and remove the UST but carefully lest you damage it. Make sure the saddle slot is clean and free of debris. Make sure the bottom of the saddle is flat and level. If it's not, you'll need to sand it so it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted September 22, 2014 Members Share Posted September 22, 2014 Higher freqs just aren't transmitted as profoundly as the lower ones to the UST. They're there but their presence is a fraction of the others. EQ is probably the best way to go to get some balance. You're better off pulling out some of the other, more prevalent frequencies to make room for the diminutive trebles. Once balanced, an amp of decent wattage will get a quality sound from the resulting mix. Edit to add: You may think this is odd but the Piezo plastic used as the UST in all the brands is the same (quality). Piezo is Piezo. It doesn't matter what company employs its use in their products. But, the installation matters a lot. If trouble is encountered it's probably installation error at fault. Piezo creates a very small signal that needs preamplification in the chain before the main amp or PA. A K&K Sound Pure Preamp belt clip model also has EQ. I think it's under a c-note and it's pretty good. I used one on one guitar that was passive until I installed an onboard preamp in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 22, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2014 Take the strings off and the saddle out and remove the UST but carefully lest you damage it. Make sure the saddle slot is clean and free of debris. Make sure the bottom of the saddle is flat and level. If it's not' date=' you'll need to sand it so it is.[/quote'] When I picked it up the action was high so I carefully sanded the bottom of the saddle on a flat surface to lower it . It should be good . I did not remove the UST because I was afraid of damaging it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 22, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2014 Higher freqs just aren't transmitted as profoundly as the lower ones to the UST. They're there but their presence is a fraction of the others. EQ is probably the best way to go to get some balance. You're better off pulling out some of the other' date=' more prevalent frequencies to make room for the diminutive trebles. Once balanced, an amp of decent wattage will get a quality sound from the resulting mix.[/quote'] You're right about that. I can get good sound through an amp .It's playing unplugged that I'm not satisfied with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted September 23, 2014 Members Share Posted September 23, 2014 . . . You may think this is odd but the Piezo plastic used as the UST in all the brands is the same (quality). Piezo is Piezo. It doesn't matter what company employs its use in their products. But' date=' the installation matters a lot. If trouble is encountered it's probably installation error at fault. . . .[/quote'] They may be the same quality but they're not identical in construction. My Shadow SH090, for example, looks like two pieces of solid metal put together. It's very rigid and you can actually use a shim under it, not that I would. This may be why my guitar sounds as good as it does unplugged. That said, I stand by my suggestion to check the saddle slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MePeel Posted September 23, 2014 Members Share Posted September 23, 2014 I use K&K and JJB with my gits, with a K&K preamp. It sounds natural amplified, and doesn't affect the unplugged sound. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 23, 2014 They may be the same quality but they're not identical in construction. My Shadow SH090, for example, looks like two pieces of solid metal put together. It's very rigid and you can actually use a shim under it, not that I would. This may be why my guitar sounds as good as it does unplugged. That said, I stand by my suggestion to check the saddle slot. That is a very good idea I should have done that the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted September 23, 2014 Members Share Posted September 23, 2014 They may be the same quality but they're not identical in construction. My Shadow SH090, for example, looks like two pieces of solid metal put together. It's very rigid and you can actually use a shim under it, not that I would. This may be why my guitar sounds as good as it does unplugged. That said, I stand by my suggestion to check the saddle slot. Agreed. Installation error is anything that would impede the proper functioning of the installed system. Improper cleaning of the saddle slot is an installation error regardless of who performed the last fitment, and is usually the cause of a malfunction. Product fallibility is 100% of the time caused by human error - whether in the manufacturing process or fitment thereafter - and also the cause for the need of a whole subtier industry in the form of post consumer tech support. Product failure is profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 23, 2014 Members Share Posted September 23, 2014 You're right about that. I can get good sound through an amp .It's playing unplugged that I'm not satisfied with As long as the saddle fits correctly in the slot and is tight against the UST, acoustically the transducer is just acting as a shim and shouldn't make any (or much) difference. Its been a long time since I tried Martin Marque strings, but I remember not liking them at the time - try something else and see if that changes anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted September 23, 2014 Members Share Posted September 23, 2014 . . . Its been a long time since I tried Martin Marque strings' date=' but I remember not liking them at the time - try something else and see if that changes anything.[/quote'] Last time I tried them Knockwood had sent me a set he didn't need during one of the forum's occasional swap meets. I thought they were okay but I can see that someone else might not. I do recall that a lot of folks liked DR's. I think this was in connection with your String Test. I put them on acoustics I set up for friends because they have a reputation for lasting quite a while for an uncoated string and I don't know how often they're likely to be changed. That said, strings are cheap so gardo can try a few sets until he finds a set that works for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 23, 2014 OK . I pulled the saddle and double checked the bottom surface . Clean ,flat and square. I lifted the UST to check the slot and I found a little dust. While I was poking around I found the battery bag mounted to the soundboard approximatly under the lower corner of the pickgaurd.. I 'm sure this hurt the sound . I relocated that to the block for the neck this helpedIt's not that this guitar sounds bad by any means it's jut not perfect yet. I mentioned once before that I haven't had a decent 6 string in a lot of years. Back then I liked the Marquis but back then I rarely went much beyond the 7th fret. I'm sure some different strings will make it singThanks for all the response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted October 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 19, 2014 That said, I stand by my suggestion to check the saddle slot. ... and of couse you were rignt all along. It seems that whoever routed the bridge for the pickup made the slot a little too wide. As a result the saddle did not seat properly. This has been resolved by installing a carefully fitted Tusq saddle. It takes me a while to get things done because if a guitar doesn't sound right I play another until I get things figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 20, 2014 Members Share Posted October 20, 2014 Understood. I'm now officially vindicated. However, my suspicion (and mind, that's all it is) is that the saddle didn't fit properly in the first place. It's unusual to route the saddle slot when installing a UST. They're made to fit the slot, usually in two different widths. All you have to do is sand down the saddle to accommodate the slight thickness of the UST so the action doesn't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted October 20, 2014 Members Share Posted October 20, 2014 I simply can't stand the sound of undersaddle piezo transducer pickups. Even with lots of EQ and preamp massage the sound is always this tinny springy "rubber band" sound that I just don't understand why everyone isn't complaining. It makes my teeth hurt listening to it. I'll be watching some TV show like American Idol and a dude will be up there with a $2,000 Taylor or something and he'll give it one strum and I hear that nasty tone that's nothing like an acoustic guitar is supposed to sound. Still everybody cheers at the end of the song so maybe it's just me. In my opinion you best best is to use piezo soundboard transducers with a quality preamp. There's less problems with volume balance like the OP mentioned. Also there's better tone because you're picking up some of the soundboard's diffused vibrations instead of having the piezo beingf activated directly by the strings and bypassing the guitar's soundboard entirely. It's still piezo so you don't get feedback problems. Something like a K&K Pure Western or Baggs I-Beam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted October 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 20, 2014 I simply can't stand the sound of undersaddle piezo transducer pickups. Even with lots of EQ and preamp massage the sound is always this tinny springy "rubber band" sound that I just don't understand why everyone isn't complaining. It makes my teeth hurt listening to it. I'll be watching some TV show like American Idol and a dude will be up there with a $2,000 Taylor or something and he'll give it one strum and I hear that nasty tone that's nothing like an acoustic guitar is supposed to sound. Still everybody cheers at the end of the song so maybe it's just me. In my opinion you best best is to use piezo soundboard transducers with a quality preamp. There's less problems with volume balance like the OP mentioned. Also there's better tone because you're picking up some of the soundboard's diffused vibrations instead of having the piezo beingf activated directly by the strings and bypassing the guitar's soundboard entirely. It's still piezo so you don't get feedback problems. Something like a K&K Pure Western or Baggs I-Beam. I seriusly considered pulling the thing out but I have almost got the sound I want ,it's very close. I can now enjoy playing it. I'm still looking for ithe right strings and I hate those cheap, soft ABS bridge pins.although that may be more superstion than science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 20, 2014 Members Share Posted October 20, 2014 Might be worth a try. PUTW "QuackBuster": http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/acoustic.htm (scroll down to the bottom of the page). Should work with your existing electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted October 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 20, 2014 Might be worth a try. PUTW "QuackBuster": http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/acoustic.htm (scroll down to the bottom of the page). Should work with your existing electronics. Thanks I'll keep that in mind, but right now it's the unplugged acoustic tone I'm working on.. I want to get that right first then worry about the amplified sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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