Members Dendy Jarrett Posted July 26, 2014 Members Share Posted July 26, 2014 I'm a drummer. Know little about acoustic guitars. My sister wants a 12 string and is asking my advice. What do you guys recommend? ThanksD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Blanchard Posted July 26, 2014 Members Share Posted July 26, 2014 12-strings, more than other guitars, can be a challenge; you could have two guitars of the same make and model and one could be great and the other not so great. Personally, I love my Luna 12-string, but I must admit to having an affiliation with Luna, but that is due to my love of their guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 26, 2014 Members Share Posted July 26, 2014 I'm a drummer. Know little about acoustic guitars. My sister wants a 12 string and is asking my advice. What do you guys recommend? Thanks D I would ask some questions first. What kind of music does she want to play on the 12 string? What 12 string players or music does she like? Does she like the jingle-jangle of Roger McGuinn or the throaty roar of Leo Kottke or the thumping bass of Leadbelly? Does she plan to sing with it, strum, play chords, fingerpick or even play slide? Does she know how she wants to tune it? Does she presently play guitar - if so what style (and particularly what neck configuration)? And unfortunately, what is her budget? Gary and I both play 12 strings - quite different style (plus, he is good and I ain't). I also build them and happen to own three right now so I can talk a little about different guitars, tunings, styles etc. Give us some more information and we can discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted July 27, 2014 Members Share Posted July 27, 2014 A price range would help too. Bear in mind a "cheap" 12-string is a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yeah, we'd need a price range. It would also help to know her prior experience level, and how big her hands are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted July 28, 2014 Members Share Posted July 28, 2014 I'm a drummer. Know little about acoustic guitars. My sister wants a 12 string and is asking my advice. What do you guys recommend? Thanks D Guild. Theyre legendary among 12's. They have a wide price range. The MIC GAD line starting at $500+ for a new D125-12. And the prices go up from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dendy Jarrett Posted July 28, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 28, 2014 I'll get some details and report back. Thanks D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted July 28, 2014 Members Share Posted July 28, 2014 When I evaluate a 6 string acoustic guitar...there's a lot of features I look for in terms of sound: Balance, volume, tone, sustain, separation, projection.....Of course there are also the structural issues like innotantion, playability, action, stability etc.... When buying a 12 string it's a lot easier because you are only looking for one thing: Bass. Bass and more base. Is there enough bass? Dig into those bottom strings? Are they loud enough? Yes? Mission accomplished. BTW tell her to get rid of the redundant unison pairs on the top two strings....make it a "10 string" Thank me later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acousticdepot Posted July 28, 2014 Members Share Posted July 28, 2014 Anybody have any experience with the Yamaha LL16R-12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gubu Posted July 28, 2014 Members Share Posted July 28, 2014 Best bang for the buck in a 12 string - Seagull Guitars - by a country mile... Guild certainly make the best 12 strings, if you want to drop at least 2 grand on a guitar. For something more affordable, the Seagull 12ers are around the same price as the Chinese made GAD-series Guilds ($500-$1K) that Etienne mentioned above, and are a better 12 string, imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted July 28, 2014 Members Share Posted July 28, 2014 . . . It would also help to know . . . how big her hands are. The majority of female guitarists I've seen or met have had no trouble playing a 12-string. I remember a fairly petite young lady in Winnipeg some years ago who played a Guild 12-string jumbo. Guild. Theyre legendary among 12's. They have a wide price range. The MIC GAD line starting at $500+ for a new D125-12. And the prices go up from there. You certainly can't go far wrong with a Guild. Taylor also makes an excellent 12-string. However, we don't know her playing style or budget yet so a serious recommendation is up in the air. . . . BTW tell her to get rid of the redundant unison pairs on the top two strings....make it a "10 string" Thank me later. I did that with my own 12-string when I was still playing it. Makes it better for bass runs. Interesting idea. I might try that. What, playing a 12-string as a 10-string or thanking guitarcapo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted July 28, 2014 Members Share Posted July 28, 2014 Another vote for the Seagull S12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 29, 2014 Members Share Posted July 29, 2014 Well, Dendy hasn't come back with the answers to my questions but for years I put 12 strings in different categories by price. Below $500, don't even think about it. Every one I've ever looked at needed serious setup work to make it playable - not something a newbie wants. From $500 to a grand the Seagull S12+ and the Martin D12X1 were worth considering - the Seagull with its cedar top is a little more balanced and maybe a bit better for fingerstyle and light strumming, the Martin is a big bassy dread. There is a new player in this price range, the Taylor 150, which is a dread sized 12 built in Taylors mexico facility. So far reviews have been good but I haven't played one. In the $1000-1500 range the classic Taylor 355 and a few Guilds are the standouts . There is one Guild or GAD (but I can't remember the model) that gets good reviews fro the singer/songwriter crowd. Guilds have slightly chunky necks (and dual truss rods), the Taylor neck is a little thinner. In my humble opinion the 355 is one of the best bang for the buck 12's made today (our departed forumite, TAH, played one so well...) Above 1500 you probably know what you want, but there are some really good options. All the Taylors are great, the LKSM is designed for the C# tuning that Leo used, the Martin Grand J is and outstanding guitar. I happen to like smaller bodies and long scale length - Fraulini's are a real treat. I asked how she plans to tune it - than means to concert or down one or two semi tones. People do string and tune their 12 in strange fashion, but most of us won't do something weird like leaving a bunch of string off. However, I guess its your guitar and you can do as you please. I also really hesitate to recommend any used 12's unless the buyer is very capable of judging issues and what to do about them. Many 12's are set up poorly or have issues, the owner gives up trying to play them and they become someone else's problem. At least check neck angle, action all the way up the neck and structural issues (loose bridge, braces) if considering a used 12. A 12 string is a completely different animal from a normal guitar - be aware of the differences and shop accordingly. they are the Grand Pianos of the guitar world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted July 29, 2014 Members Share Posted July 29, 2014 Agree on the Guilds for a high end model. For a more moderate price consider the Martin D12X1. Not a Seagull fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dendy Jarrett Posted July 29, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 29, 2014 My sister (believe it or not) doesn't do computers. I am still awaiting word from her. Previously she had looked at the Guild. A friend recommended a Breedlove ...I didn't realize there were that many choices available anymore ...D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted July 29, 2014 Members Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'm a drummer. Know little about acoustic guitars. My sister wants a 12 string and is asking my advice. What do you guys recommend? Thanks D I owned quite a few.......Loved my Guild F30, but its a lot of guitar....that is physically....hard to play any guitar that isn't comfortable....my recommendation is to go play a few and see what feels and sounds good....regardless of headstock....Martin does have an entry level 12 under $600.....hard to beat that price range for a playable 12-er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted July 29, 2014 Members Share Posted July 29, 2014 . . . People do string and tune their 12 in strange fashion, but most of us won't do something weird like leaving a bunch of string off. However, I guess its your guitar and you can do as you please. . . . Two strings is hardly a bunch. I won't dispute what "most of us" do or what qualifies as "weird" but I've seen it done a number of times. As for brands, you're pretty much on target, as usual. I've seen 12-strings all over the map but there are only a few for serious long-term ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 29, 2014 Members Share Posted July 29, 2014 My sister (believe it or not) doesn't do computers. I am still awaiting word from her. Previously she had looked at the Guild. A friend recommended a Breedlove ... I didn't realize there were that many choices available anymore ... D Breedlove makes some nice 12 strings but you either love or hate their aesthetics. They also use something called the JDL "bridge doctor" in their higher end guitars (but not the PacRim imports I think) - that could help counter the higher string pull on the bridge. The JDL is sometimes used as a fix for 12 strings that have developed a bit of a belly - sometimes it works, sometimes not. As far as the Breedlove, I would play it and make up your own mind. Two strings is hardly a bunch. I won't dispute what "most of us" do or what qualifies as "weird" but I've seen it done a number of times. As for brands, you're pretty much on target, as usual. I've seen 12-strings all over the map but there are only a few for serious long-term ownership. Double coursed instruments were generally designed that way for a reason - why suggest changing that when a person is just starting? I think she wants the iconic sound of a 12 string - let her play it that way. (as an aside, I know that Leadbelly used two primary G strings and a double octave on the 12th, some 12 string players put the primaries on "top" ala Rickenbacker, and then there is that Taylor 8 string baritone thing. All are variations on the 12 string theme but not where I'd suggest starting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted July 29, 2014 Members Share Posted July 29, 2014 . . . Double coursed instruments were generally designed that way for a reason - why suggest changing that when a person is just starting? I think she wants the iconic sound of a 12 string - let her play it that way. . . . I wasn't suggesting she start that way, just that some of us do play our 12-strings like that and that it can sometimes be preferable (plus two fewer strings is that much less tension). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted July 30, 2014 Members Share Posted July 30, 2014 Is there someone to check out guitars for her? If so I've always felt used is the way to go. I mostly play electrics but I picked up a 1978 Alvarez ,Japanese made 12 string that is fine for what I do. It only cost me about $200 with a hard shell case and I play the heck out of it with no issues Oh,I did repair one latch on the case. They are also Scott Grove approved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 30, 2014 Members Share Posted July 30, 2014 Is there someone to check out guitars for her? If so I've always felt used is the way to go. I mostly play electrics but I picked up a 1978 Alvarez ,Japanese made 12 string that is fine for what I do. It only cost me about $200 with a hard shell case and I play the heck out of it with no issues Oh,I did repair one latch on the case. That can be a crap shoot. Back before I understood things like playability and action and neck angle and stuff like that I bought a Yamaha 12 string for two hundred bucks. I thought 12's were supposed to be hard to play and it was - darn near impossible. I sold it to some other sucker, er, person for 2 bills and bought a nice Martin 12 for 700. By then I knew that the Martin needed a reset and I knew what it would cost - that got factored into the purchase price. Had the work done and I've got a sweet vintage D12-28 that plays like butter. Since then I've added two small bodied 12's to my quiver - they suit my playing style better than the dread. Hence the caution in my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted July 30, 2014 Members Share Posted July 30, 2014 Is there someone to check out guitars for her? If so I've always felt used is the way to go. . . . As Freeman mentioned, a used 12-string is a crap shoot but having someone who knows guitars--and specifically knows acoustic guitars--help with the hands-on search is a good idea. Where does she live? There might be someone from Acoustic Guitars who can help. I'll volunteer if she's near St. Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 31, 2014 Members Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'll volunteer if she's near St. Louis. I'll volunteer if she's in the PNW. I've got three of them she can try out. Btw - here is a good 12 string resource. Its on UMGF so there is a slight Martin bias, but in general its all about the 12 string http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/forums/7/The-12String-Cafe/The-12String-Cafe#.U9mTsM90y1s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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