raising the saddle?

[t_e_l_e]

as some might know i purchased a recording kind rd227 not long ago and as lefty i hendrixed it

 

some of the high strings have a buzz when played on the 6th fret

 

so i raised the saddle with some slices of thin cardboard a while ago

but the buzz was not completely gone

 

so today i added some more, now the buzz is gone, which is great

 

but now i'm asking myself, does this cardboard (or to much of it) affect the tone?

and if how?

should i use something else?

 

all in all i need to raise it around 1mm

the action is still great

 

some insights would be great from you people with the great knowledge

[FretFiend.]

In all the pictures I've seen, Hendrix simply played a guitar upside down, no modifications to the guitar. What does this mean that you "hendrixed" it?

 

(I hope this doesn't mean you reversed the strings. That's a BIG can of worms.)

[t_e_l_e]

nope, albert king was an upside down player. hendrix swapped the strings from low to high. he did it already with his first accoustic his father won in poker from a friend. he started first upside down but then thought something is wrong, swapped the strings, the rest is history....

 

so yes i reversed the strings. i know this affects intonation. and it is not great on the 12th fret.

yep i should replace it with a lefty saddle, but they are hard to get or someone would to carve it himselfs

yep replacing the bridge with righty one would be the correct way, but righty bridges don't come by that easily and i'm not freeman keller with the tools and skills to do it my self

 

but for now my question is, how does the paper under the saddle affect the sound of the guitar?

[garthman]

A shim made from a hard, rigid material (metal, wood, hard plastic) is better than card. Strips cut from an old credit card work well.

[FretFiend.]

Yep. A hard wood or plastic of similar material to the saddle would be best. Paper or cardboard fiber has some give and fluff to it which you don't want.

 

BTW, any mention of replacing the nut is conspicuously absent from your posts. I have to assume you did.

[t_e_l_e]

BTW, any mention of replacing the nut is conspicuously absent from your posts. I have to assume you did.

 

nope i used a file to widen the nut where the bass strings go

 

before you say "OMG what did he do..."

i did the same to all my hendrixed righties and i never had any issue that the high strings don't stay in place cause of the nut is to wide for them.

the issue is, you don't get pre-filed lefty nuts out there, especially if the nut width is not a "standard" size (the RD227 nut is a bit wider than most other dreadnoughts)

so i had to file anyway

 

yes tone-purists and perfectionist will shake their head, but it worked for 20 years on my old washburn wd10, where the frets have a lot of play wear and a refret would have been almost as expensive then a new guitar

the only reason i got again another righty was, that for the price of the rd227 there was no lefty around, which was just half as nice as the recording king and i had the chance to play a few of them

 

as i play mostly electric i didn't want to invest $2000+ in a real nice custom order martin/gibson/guild lefty

 

i will have a look if i can find something better to put under the saddle than the card board now

thx for the replies

[FretFiend.]

nope i won't say OMG.

 

It's your guitar.

 

I am curious tho. Affordable lefty acoustics are out there. Ever try one?

[WRGKMC]

With most acoustics you can simply pull the saddle out and reverse it.

Unless there's an issue with neck twisting the height of the high and low strings should be reversed.

 

My concern would be the nut, You'd need to install a new one for a lefty because all the gauged grooves are bass ackwards.

A high E string will likely buzz like a banchee in a low E slot and the low e isn't going to fit in the high E spot.

 

The nut needs to get gradually higher with the lower strings to play right as well.

[Freeman Keller]

 

With most acoustics you can simply pull the saddle out and reverse it.

Unless there's an issue with neck twisting the height of the high and low strings should be reversed.

 

.

 

Switching the saddle in the slot corrects the height differences between the low and high strings, but actually might make the intonation even worse, since now the B string compensation is reversed (closer to the nut). The long term fix is to either fill the saddle slot and route a new one at the correct angle or pull the bridge and replace it with a lefty. Then make a new saddle and properly compensate it. A new nut of course, a new pick guard if you want one and adding position markers on the other side of the neck are the elements of a left conversion. Braces are bass-ackwards of course but that really doesn't seem to hurt much.

 

As far as shimming the saddle - I frequently shim saddles that end up too short but I usually make a new one. For shim materials you can glue wood (ebony works well) to the bottom of the saddle and sand it down, or I've cut pieces off my wifes credit card. I've never liked leaving it in and would never do it on a customer's guitar - once I knew the correct height I'd make a new one.

 

Remember that this time of year a lot of low action is a result of dry guitars - before making a new saddle be sure it is hydrated and that the relief is set.

 

Btw - do you remember the thread where we made a lefty as a gift for a forumite's daughter.

[t_e_l_e]

My concern would be the nut, You'd need to install a new one for a lefty because all the gauged grooves are bass ackwards.

A high E string will likely buzz like a banchee in a low E slot and the low e isn't going to fit in the high E spot.

 

The nut needs to get gradually higher with the lower strings to play right as well.

 

yeah, that was also my concern, but it only happened to be a problem on a cheapo charvel electric with trem and locking nut

on the others (3 acoustics and on a strat) there is no buzz on the high e string, so i only needed to file to make the bass strings fit

[WRGKMC]

 

 

Switching the saddle in the slot corrects the height differences between the low and high strings, but actually might make the intonation even worse, since now the B string compensation is reversed (closer to the nut). The long term fix is to either fill the saddle slot and route a new one at the correct angle or pull the bridge and replace it with a lefty.

 

I agree but the instrument isn't going to have proper intonation no matter what at this point.

The high strings are going to be shorter than the low strings. If the nut is compensated, its going to make the high strings shorter, not longer so

it may help to even up their length a bit.

 

you are right about replacing or filling/rerouting the bridge channel. Its the only hope for getting the intonation correct. String height only has minor effects

of intonation because as the strings get higher, they get more tension, but they also break away from the fret crown closer towards the nut as they are raised. A new uncompensated saddle is only $1. A new nut maybe $3. Without a reversed bridge its never going to play in tune above the root position

and all the tweaking in the world wont fix that. The high E string needs to be close to scale length or slightly longer. (Distance from nut to 12th fret X 2)

The other strings wind up being longer with the Low E usually winding up being about 5/16 longer than scale length.

 

[t_e_l_e]

nope i won't say OMG.

 

It's your guitar.

 

I am curious tho. Affordable lefty acoustics are out there. Ever try one?

 

before i bought the rk i went to our biggest local shop. to my surprise they had around 8 lefty acoustics and i gave them a fair chance and tried them all

the takamine felt meh, the 2 yamahas with cutaway didn't sound right, there was the cheap ovation which i thought i had GAS for, yes nice guitar, but the unplugged sound is definitely lacking, there was a martin 000xce with this textured black finish, over my budget and didn't sound what i was looking for...

 

overall yes nice guitars, all with a pickup, all with cuttaway's, no real dreadnought, some of the looks were odd (to me), soundwise maybe one of the yamahas was really nice, but the price tag was almost 800 or so....

 

and then i found the recording king, read some review asked about your opinion here and ordered it online, with the intention if it does not sound right, i send i right back without any modification (i can play a bit upside down), but what should i say i kept her

[t_e_l_e]

 

 

Switching the saddle in the slot corrects the height differences between the low and high strings, but actually might make the intonation even worse, since now the B string compensation is reversed (closer to the nut). The long term fix is to either fill the saddle slot and route a new one at the correct angle or pull the bridge and replace it with a lefty. Then make a new saddle and properly compensate it. A new nut of course, a new pick guard if you want one and adding position markers on the other side of the neck are the elements of a left conversion. Braces are bass-ackwards of course but that really doesn't seem to hurt much.

 

As far as shimming the saddle - I frequently shim saddles that end up too short but I usually make a new one. For shim materials you can glue wood (ebony works well) to the bottom of the saddle and sand it down, or I've cut pieces off my wifes credit card. I've never liked leaving it in and would never do it on a customer's guitar - once I knew the correct height I'd make a new one.

 

Remember that this time of year a lot of low action is a result of dry guitars - before making a new saddle be sure it is hydrated and that the relief is set.

 

Btw - do you remember the thread where we made a lefty as a gift for a forumite's daughter.

 

i switched the saddle altough worsening the intonation, but it was still too low a bit. i made a new pickguard

never felt i need the position markers as long i can see the inlays on the fretboard

for the rest i don't have the tools....

 

and no i dont know this thread, is the search working and what shoud i search for?

[Freeman Keller]

 

and no i dont know this thread, is the search working and what shoud i search for?

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-42/1319529-

 

However it seems to be a bit screwed up like lots of archived threads

 

 

 

[Idunno]

I don't use shims anymore. I wrap masking tape once around the saddle, sprinkle in baking soda and then wick in fast CA. The tape gum acts as a mold release so it comes off and cleans up pretty easily. Then I sand the added height flat and tweak from there. Or, you can use slow cure CA on the bottom of the saddle, spray accelerator onto a piece of regular copy paper and quickly place the saddle onto the paper. It cures instantly and you've added the thickness of the paper along with the coating of the glue. Good copy paper is about 2.5 to 3 mils thick. Then trim around the edge of the saddle with your blade of choice and feather sand it all around flush. Baking soda allows you a thicker build than the paper method. Of course, you can lay-up several successive sheets of paper, too.

 

 

 

[garthman]

I don't use shims anymore. I wrap masking tape once around the saddle, sprinkle in baking soda and then wick in fast CA. The tape gum acts as a mold release so it comes off and cleans up pretty easily. Then I sand the added height flat and tweak from there. Or, you can use slow cure CA on the bottom of the saddle, spray accelerator onto a piece of regular copy paper and quickly place the saddle onto the paper. It cures instantly and you've added the thickness of the paper along with the coating of the glue. Good copy paper is about 2.5 to 3 mils thick. Then trim around the edge of the saddle with your blade of choice and feather sand it all around flush. Baking soda allows you a thicker build than the paper method. Of course, you can lay-up several successive sheets of paper, too.

 

 

 

I use self-hardening clay: easy, quick and works every time.