Members Freeman Keller Posted March 30, 2014 Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 I have an inquiry from a potential customer who would like me to build him an acoustic guitar that "looks like a Gibson ES-175" Gibson's ES guitars are archtops with pressed laminated tops, backs and sides. I don't have the equipment to make these but do have a potential source. I also have ordered a set of plans for the ES-175 which will give me all the necessary measurements. My customer has also said that he doesn't care if its an arch top - he would be happy with a flat top as long as its basically the shape. I've learned the hard way that it is advantageous to make it fit a standard case. I mentioned this to my son and he said "as long as you are building one, I'd like one too". And I figure if I go thru all the work of making molds and figuring this critter out I probably should make one for myself. It presents a real can of worms however - arched or flat top, f holes or round hole, arched back or standard, what kind of neck joint, electronics, if it has f-holes how do I access the insides (bolt on neck, wiring), tailpiece or bridge, wood choices..... All of this is complicated by the fact that both my customer and I will be on vacation - he will be out of the country for a month. So for now I'm in a research mode and would appreciate any input - pictures of similar guitars would be helpful, and if any of you have played ES-175 or similar guitars give me your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pine Apple Slim Posted March 30, 2014 Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 I always liked the Gibson Howard Roberts, sorta like an ES175 the body shape anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pine Apple Slim Posted March 30, 2014 Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 You could just build a reg lam maple archtop sorta like the Recording King Loar or or Godin Kingpin but add the Florentine cutaway. For Max acoustic power forgo the pickups and knobs in the top and go with a floating HB at the neck and a piezo in the bridge. Mount the vol and tone on the pickguard. IMO to really gett the vibe it has to have the trapieze. If you was gonna go flattop the Id look at maybe altering a Macaferri type design with a Florentine and F holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pine Apple Slim Posted March 30, 2014 Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 Or you could just build a reg acoustic with a Florentine. Depends on how close you want to get and what he wants I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted March 30, 2014 Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 You'd have to under bid Gibson's market used/new on it. Ever built a hollow body? Awful lot of ciphering and work to get the box plates right unless you make a mold and steam-shape them. I'd take a pass on it as a commission and maybe build one for myself just to get the know-how into my hands first. On the other hand, as a customer I'd just buy one off the market to have the genuine article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted March 30, 2014 Members Share Posted March 30, 2014 Or you could just build a reg acoustic with a Florentine. . . . I'm with Pine Apple Slim on this one. F holes would be a bear if you ever had to work on it so personally I'd avoid them. Basically do a mini jumbo with a Florentine cutaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted March 31, 2014 Members Share Posted March 31, 2014 Anything but the look of the genuine article would fall short of the customer's expectation if he's truly focused on an ES175 clone. The market on that guitar is upwards of $3000.00 used. Might be some lame ducks out there for less but they probably need work. Question: Why would someone commission a clone when they can probably get the real deal for less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted March 31, 2014 Members Share Posted March 31, 2014 Guild makes a few Florentine cutaway flat-top guitars. I think they are F47ce's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oldguy64 Posted March 31, 2014 Members Share Posted March 31, 2014 What about something similar to a .old gibson SST? But with a pair of humbuckers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted March 31, 2014 Members Share Posted March 31, 2014 I always liked the Gibson Howard Roberts, sorta like an ES175 the body shape anyway Love those, always wanted one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 31, 2014 Members Share Posted March 31, 2014 Archtop vs. flat top is the big decision. I think what he's asking for is a Gibson L-4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted March 31, 2014 Members Share Posted March 31, 2014 Guild makes a few Florentine cutaway flat-top guitars. I think they are F47ce's. Freeman has this customer talked tone or wood selection with you or is his major selling point something with a pointy upper bout that he can play jazz unplugged on? I think that needs to be established before you even enter "research mode." He simply doesn't know what he wants. Tell him to do HIS homework first or just go buy a used Gibson. It might save you both a headache later on down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted March 31, 2014 Members Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hmmm...now that we've established that the feller is totally confused about what he wants please allow me take first crack at him. I got some stuff I know he absolutely wants. I just have to tell him he does. If you guys get my back on it I'll cut you in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted April 1, 2014 Members Share Posted April 1, 2014 Let me begin by saying that I just got home from the bar and am filtering this through brutal alcoholically enhanced honesty. I would not commission a guitar for all the tea in China. Wisdom of that statement? Play before you buy. Simple as that. If you have the savoir faire finances to throw around then disregard the logic and have some fun. Having done the commission thing I know it can go well or otherwise. Mine was an extreme case of throwing caution to the wind (because I'm a pragmatist) so the private build idea was just one item on my bucket list. Didn't work out and even those guitars I bought sight unseen are now gone. Play before you buy and never...never...place faith in a builder's hands to produce what your ears want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members masterbuilt Posted April 1, 2014 Members Share Posted April 1, 2014 Let me begin by saying that I just got home from the bar and am filtering this through brutal alcoholically enhanced honesty. I would not commission a guitar for all the tea in China. Wisdom of that statement? Play before you buy. Simple as that. If you have the savoir faire finances to throw around then disregard the logic and have some fun. Having done the commission thing I know it can go well or otherwise. Mine was an extreme case of throwing caution to the wind (because I'm a pragmatist) so the private build idea was just one item on my bucket list. Didn't work out and even those guitars I bought sight unseen are now gone. Play before you buy and never...never...place faith in a builder's hands to produce what your ears want to hear. This is a good time to tell you that Freeman has built several beautiful guitars and is fully capable of building just about anything he sets his mind to build. Not only that, he is well-liked and people will back him in anything he attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted April 1, 2014 Members Share Posted April 1, 2014 Mickey, we know about Freeman and the thousand other builders with great personalities, admirable skills, voluminous testimonials about them and, of course, the angels that were placed inside their guitars by their heaven-stricken hands. I'm sure of it and have read it many times, notwithstanding the rule of not believing everything I'm told, so it has to be true. I haven't been so charmed to say it has also been my experience but I'm sure that if I commission enough guitars from a guy either he'll eventually ascend to the halls of the sonically unsurpassed or my hearing will fade with age. One of them is a sure thing. In any event, thanks for the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted April 1, 2014 Members Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think what he was trying to say was "STFU NOOB!"angry02 Joe, I think you need to start tinkering with your guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 2, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 I appreciate each and every comment - this was exactly what I was looking for. I've had further discussion with my "customer" and have a better idea of what he wants. He is one of the best motorcycle painters in the country and has a very good feel for aesthetics - plus he values custom and unique work. http://www.trickpaint.com Basically what he has told me is that he wants a pure acoustic in the general shape and appearance of the ES-175. From that I've pretty much decided on a jumbo body (with the measurements of the 175), but it will be a flat top with normal bridge. Florentine cutaway and neck profile like his Les Paul. He told me the wood choices were up to me - I've got some lovely Lutz for the top and I'm leaning to maple back and sides (I think jumbos sound good in maple and it will stay with the ES theme). He says no pickups - I can always add a Pure Mini or something. I feel pretty confident that I can build him a guitar that sounds pretty good within these parameters. I do have a set of ES-175 plans and I also feel totally confident building a clone of that, and may do that for my son. The big bugaboo would be the pressed laminated top and back - I've found a source that will work very nicely. Altho I haven't built an arch top yet, I have made an F5 and my Lester - so a little top carving isn't unreasonable. I think that Idunno expresses a very good perspective on this and I think anyone commissioning a guitar should take that to heart. One slight difference here, I have no pretense that I'm a great and wonderful luthier - I call myself a luthier-in-training and charge accordingly. I love building guitar but frankly have quite enough so when someone like this gives me a opportunity to build another, especially something new and different, I jump at the chance. My last builds have been for the cost of materials plus a buck - sometimes I'll get a nice bottle of wine for a bonus. I told my customer that I'd do the same for him, but he might also have to lay some pink ghost flames on my wife's scooter. Masterbuilt - thank you, that was very nice and probably not true. For everyone else, thanks, but we are not done with this. In fact, only starting, I'll be back..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 This is a good time to tell you that Freeman has built several beautiful guitars and is fully capable of building just about anything he sets his mind to build. Not only that, he is well-liked and people will back him in anything he attempts. Well said! philthumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 Joe, methinks that you were jilted by an experience of your own. That's been known to happen and I'm sorry that you feel that way. IIRC price-wise your luthier's rate was among the more reasonable ones out there. I get the feeling that you were left feeling burned. I hope that it wasn't too much of an inconvenience. Anyway, you're a good human being, Freeman. I like the idea of "taking it out in trade" + cost of materials. I've been considering on approaching a couple of friends to refine my skills but I think that I need to pay it forward considering the amount of charity I've enjoyed with regards to guitars. Even the cost of materals is about $500, isn't it? So, lutz over maple with a flat top with Florentine cutaway? How deep are you going with the body? I guess it's up to the customer but IME jumbos, while bigger than dreadnoughts are more comfortable because of the way they sit thanks to the slimmer waist. Personally, I wouldn't go too slim; at least 4-1/2". What type of wood for bridge and fretboard? How about the trim? BTW, are you going to do a burst? If so will you go dark or light? Let us know if the archtop project ever takes flight. If I were to get a certain friend of mine I think he'd want something similar but I have no idea what they're like to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 2, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 Stay tuned. I'm leaving on a vacation so this will go on the back burner for a while, but I wanted to get the thought process working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted April 3, 2014 Members Share Posted April 3, 2014 Here's an acoustic L4 now that I figured out how to post pics: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted April 3, 2014 Members Share Posted April 3, 2014 Here's an acoustic L4 now that I figured out how to post pics: Odd. I tried three different browsers and I still can't see the pic, even though the image tags show up when I quote your post. I think I'll try: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted April 3, 2014 Members Share Posted April 3, 2014 It shows up for me...and also shows in your post. I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted April 8, 2014 Members Share Posted April 8, 2014 @FK: Too bad you've settled on a Flattop.... I would have otherwise asked you for an arched top/back flamed maple ES, F-holes and tailpiece and all the shebang that comes with a 175, and I would have chipped in an idea for a "maintenance flap" in the back like the Ovation epaulette models have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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