HD28 vs HD35, 1/4 vs. 5/16

[guitarNed]

Hey. I've been comparing an HD28 and HD35 at my local shop. The 28 has 5/16th in bracing, the 35 has 1/4 inch. The difference applies to the regular D28 and D35 as well.

 

QUESTION: What is the practical difference between these two thicknesses? How does it effect the sound? Why does Martin do this? What is the purpose of the difference?

[54merk]

Both of these guitars are based on the standard series D28 and D35 guitars. The history of the 35 is that it was introduced in the 60's to use a 3 piece back. This was during the period when Brazilian RW was becoming scarce so the factory was able to use smaller pieces for the back. At the same time they reduced the bracing from 5/16" to 1/4". Why that change was incorporated is a good question which I have never seen answered. The two HD models you mentioned are going to sound similar. If you have your heart set on an HD Martin get the one which sounds best to you and don't worry about the bracing differences.

[guit30]

1/4 bracing to me sounds livelier

[guitarNed]

Ya, the 1/4 inch and 5/16 inch sound different to me, but I can't possibly isolate the difference, because the D28 and D35 are different in other ways, as are the HD28 and HD35. I am perfectly capable of hearing whether one is better than the other (altho I'm not sure that one IS better.)

 

My specific curiosity is whether anyone knows WHY Martin has this 1/16 inch difference in the bracing of these guitars. Note that this difference survives the difference between scalloped and non-scalloped bracing on the D and HD models. In other words, the D28 and D35 are both non-scalloped and the HD28 and HD35 are both scalloped. Yet the 28 is 5/16 inch in each model and the 35 is 1/4 in each model.

 

Please don't tell me to listen. I'm not trying to decide which to buy. I'd like to know 1) why there is this difference and 2) what the effect of the difference is. Is the lighter bracing more lively? (Intuition says probably.) Is the 1/4 inch bracing an adaptation to balance against the 3 part back on the 35 vs the 2 part back on the 28? C'mon you Martin freaks, let's hear some smart talk!

[guitarNed]

No ideas, eh?

[54merk]

Originally posted by guitarNed My specific curiosity is whether anyone knows WHY Martin has this 1/16 inch difference in the bracing of these guitars. Note that this difference survives the difference between scalloped and non-scalloped bracing on the D and HD models. In other words, the D28 and D35 are both non-scalloped and the HD28 and HD35 are both scalloped. Yet the 28 is 5/16 inch in each model and the 35 is 1/4 in each model. Please don't tell me to listen. I'm not trying to decide which to buy. I'd like to know 1) why there is this difference and 2) what the effect of the difference is. Is the lighter bracing more lively? (Intuition says probably.) Is the 1/4 inch bracing an adaptation to balance against the 3 part back on the 35 vs the 2 part back on the 28? C'mon you Martin freaks, let's hear some smart talk!

 

I really do not know the answer. My personal opinion is that it was done to further distinguish this model from the D28 when it was introduced, but this opinion is not based on a any concrete facts. Obviously, one would expect that thinner bracing would be more responsive, however these guitars are rather solidly built to begin with, so I'm not so sure it really matters all that much. Yeah, they sound similar, and also different, but I can say the same thing about two HD35's or two D28's, so how much of the effect is from the bracing?

 

What you are asking is a part of Martin history and may be written in one of the books detailing the history of the CF Martin company. If this question is just buring inside of you I suggest you ask post your question on the UMGF (Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum). Very nice people over there who have lots of knowledge of Martin history.

[JasmineTea]

I think it's safe to say the lighter bracing is meant to make it more responsive. But other variables from one guitar to another make it impossible to say for certain that the thinner braces are the thing making it more responsive. It's not a guaranty. I've heard plenty of non-scalloped Martins that had great response, plenty of bass.

[DonK]

If you go to the Martin site and look under "history" and then "dreadnoughts", you'll see a version of the story saying the heavier bracing was originally introduced on the dread models to compensate for the use of heavier strings by many players. Apparently, the company ultimately decided that heavier bracing -- like the bigger bridge plates introduced in the late '60's -- were necessary to provide a stronger structure to withstand heavier strings. Lighter strings are presumed to allow the top to vibrate more freely and provide a stronger bass response. It seems the heavier (and non-scalloped) bracing was retained in certain models simply to avoid messing with guitars that had become popular.

[guitarNed]

 

Originally posted by 54merk If this question is just buring inside of you I suggest you ask post your question on the UMGF (Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum).

I browsed a few of the posts over there, and the people did seem nice. I tried to join the forum, but the procedure is extremely complicated. You must fill out an application of the right type (global vs. local) then attempt to post. The attempt will not succeed, but it triggers a behind-the-scenes application process that forwards your application to admin types. If the admins approve your application I think (from my understanding of the help file, which was somewhat imprecise in its language) they send you email announcing that you've been approved. THEN you can post a question or comment.

 

Didn't see a search feature. Anyway, I've had bad experiences with these "wagons in a circle" sorts of forums in the past. They often are modded by people who are quick with the banning gun. I will not be surprised to learn that the Unofficial Martin group is not like that and that it was my loss, not theirs. Maybe I'm just lazy and unwilling to reach out. Maybe I'm unable to recognize the value of having sensible rules, firmly and fairly enforced. Maybe I am a sociopath, spoiling for trouble and trolling for an argument. Maybe they are better off without me!!

 

Lets look on the bright side. I will be spending more time HERE!!!

[jackwr]

Bright side for who?.....just kidding to make a point that our wagons are open.

[JasmineTea]

 

Originally posted by guitarNed Maybe I'm just lazy and unwilling to reach out. Maybe I'm unable to recognize the value of having sensible rules, firmly and fairly enforced. Maybe I am a sociopath, spoiling for trouble and trolling for an argument. Maybe they are better off without me!!

...Beautiful

 

 

 

EZ Board is a pain in the ass.

[54merk]

Too bad you did not give the UMGF forum a chance. The registration may be awkward but everyone is approved and registration does proceed quickly. If you have a Martin question that is without a doubt the best place to get it answered.

[JasmineTea]

I seem to recall you just have to keep hitting the "skip" button at the bottem to get through all the junk-mail offers. The first time I tried it was frustrating, second time, not too bad.

[blackstrat98]

Even though it's over 10 years later, in case anyone else wants an answer to guitarNed's question as to WHY Martin chose to put 1/4" bracing in the D-35, this appeared on Maury's Music Store Blog dated Wednesday 18 November, 2015:

 

If the original link for the full article is still up, you can check it out here:

http://www.maurysmusic.com/maury_s_blog/view/155934/martin_d28_vs_martin_d35

 

This three piece design necessitated some changes to what at that time were Martin’s standard Dreadnought construction methods. Martin realized quickly that a guitar back is made from 3 pieces of wood with perpendicular grain instead of two it ends up being much stiffer. Their first attempt, which was then known as the X-35, had almost identical back bracing to what was found on a D28. The guitar wound up being far too bassy. To compensate for this, Martin decided to copy the lighter rear bracing of their 00-sized instruments which allowed the back to vibrate as freely as possible without compromising the structural integrity. Since the guitar’s back was already so lightly braced, Martin decided to keep the ball rolling and lighten the top braces on the D35 as well. At the time almost all Martin dreads were made with 5/16” X braces while smaller bodied instruments were braced with 1/4” braces. Martin decided to take the chance and apply the 1/4” 000 bracing pattern to their new Dreadnought. Three more prototypes later, and Martin was ready to unveil the D-35 to the world.

 

But talking about brace thickness in numbers alone is theoretical. What happens “in the field”?

In my own highly subjective opinion, the D-35 does everything the D-28 does but it does it just a bit better. The D-35 has all of the warmth and bass that you’d come to expect from a Martin Dreadnought. The difference is that, along with the typical low end you also get a crystal clear high end response. The highs on the D-35 are loud and sustaining, giving the guitar an incredible balance across the fretboard that you just don’t find in 28 series Dreads. Combine this with the D-35s better harmonic response, giving you a guitar that sounds more nuanced and lively than what came before it.

Although the initial reason for it’s creation was one of necessity, the D35 has become a mainstay in Martin’s lineup for reasons that go beyond financial. With its lighter bracing and eyecatching aesthetics, the D35 meets a need in the Martin lineup, offering an original tone and balance that isn’t found in any other Martin model. Personally I’ve found that it gives a sound that works great for solo guitar/vocal arrangements as well as smaller acoustic groups because of its fuller, more lush sound. The D28, on the other hand, has a more bass oriented tone that I feel works better for larger arrangements where you need to be careful not to step on the toes of the instruments around you.

For those of you who were unsure what the D-35 really offered, I hope this cleared things up.

 

[Idunno]

In 1973 I bought a D35 over others in the Martin line-up because I thought it sounded better. That same year I divested myself of it for quality failure reasons but it was one fine sounding guitar while I had it.