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Cheap Archtops?


jerime

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Old Harmonys on ebay are about the cheapest, and you have to be careful with them because most of them need a neck reset by this time, which will set you back further than the cost of the guitar.

I'm guessing that if you find one in your price range it will underwhelm you with its inferiority.

Honestly, if you really want an archtop, consider waiting until you can afford one. A handcarved archtop is among the most expensive guitars you can buy (along with a good classical guitar).

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Thanks for the advise. I've thought about the old Harmonys, Silvertones, etc. on ebay. I figured they would be very cheap quality, but like I said it's pretty much just to mess around with. I just thought there might be some cheap chinese knock offs around some where, because I would almost rather have that than something old that I have to work on a bunch, which may still be the case.

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This maybe a stupid question, but if you put acoustic strings on an electric archtop would you get enough projection out of it for it to be on par with a regular acoustic volume wise?

 

 

You'll get some added volume, but it won't be enough to compete with a big-bodied archtop or dreadnought.

 

Then again, you won't get that in most of the Harmony/Silvertone/Kay archtops on eBay -- smaller bodied guitars made of plywood that probably shouldn't have anything heavier than .11's (at most).

 

I bought one off of eBay (marked "Kent" on the headstock). It was $50, and it didn't need a neck reset to correct the angle -- the neck was far too warped for that to be any help. Most of those old Harmony's don't have adjustable truss rods. I just play slide on it now.

 

The Loar makes about the cheapest archtop repro right now. But expect to pay at least $800 for it.

 

I'm really surprised no one has thought of building a good, cheap archtop acoustic. Hell, even Selmer-style gypsy jazz boxes are hot items now, and you can find nice ones under $500 (Cordoba's). A company like Seagull already makes all-laminate guitars that sound good (Art & Lutherie), and I think they'd make a killing if they put out a nice little archtop.

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eviltwin is correct. the cheap Chinese archtop is the Loar. After that it is the Eastman starting around $2K. the reason archtops are special is the reason they are expensive. they have carved tops.

Ever wonder why a little thing like a violin can project so well? carved top. flat top violins never caught on.

they just aren't going to be able to compete financially with a cheap acoustic flat top guitar. its a different animal.

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I don't get this. Like ET, it seems to me that a decent, solid-top archtop guitar at a reasonable price (say, around $650.00) would sell like hot cakes. And it shouldn't be all that hard to build, either. The big cost in an archtop is the hand carving involved, but, by using CNC machines, carving a top should be a cinch. OK, you'll have to use a thicker top blank which will increase the cost, but materials are the least cost item in a guitar. If you can turn out a carved-top student violin in the $300.00 range, a carved-top git at twice that shouldn't be a significant stretch.

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I was a little surprised when I started looking into archtops that there weren't really any cheap Chinese knock offs, I mean they make knock offs of almost everything else. You can even get cheap gypsy jazz knock offs (rondo music), I mean why not archtops?

 

BTW - Anyone tried the SX Gypsy acoustic from rondo yet? Looks very tempting, but I've never played one or really even heard one.

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I was a little surprised when I started looking into archtops that there weren't really any cheap Chinese knock offs, I mean they make knock offs of almost everything else. You can even get cheap gypsy jazz knock offs (rondo music), I mean why not archtops?


BTW - Anyone tried the SX Gypsy acoustic from rondo yet? Looks very tempting, but I've never played one or really even heard one.

 

I'm pretty sure archtop acoustic guitars require more hands on labor. Shaping the braces and shaping the top plus all of the clamping would be a time consuming operation (IMO).

 

I could be wrong. Nothing new there. ;)

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BTW - Anyone tried the SX Gypsy acoustic from rondo yet? Looks very tempting, but I've never played one or really even heard one.

 

 

Search brought this one up. Scroll down a bit--msmith40 gives a pretty good review.

 

Seems like they need plenty of work to get them sounding right.

 

For all things gypsy jazz, check here.

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Obviously there is a market for it, so if it is as easy as all that, to what then, can we attribute the vacuum?

CNC, while a wonder of mill shop engineering for fabrication and machining, is not a panacea, cure-all, or 'elixir' (if you'll excuse the expression).

the field is wide open for that $300-$600 archtop. nothing to stop anyone who wants to try it, as far as I can see.

go get 'em boys.

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What benefits do you get from an archtop guitar (usually with f-holes I'm assuming)? They're nowhere near as common as typical flattop acoustics, and I read a Guitar World article (great source I know ;)) awhile ago saying they couldn't compete with a regular flattop dread in terms of volume and projection.

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Go to guitar shows. You might find a Kay or Silvertone out there for a couple of hundred. Check out the neck angle. Somebody might have already reset the neck. Re frets, re finish, re sets all detract from collector price so they can be down priced a little. Besides, it takes a real oddball to collect Kay and Silvertone archtops; they are out there though. At a guitar show you'll at least find out if this is something you want to do and then you can justify a bit more dough.

 

The best buys on old solid wood archtops are the Epiphone Blackstones. Get one from 1930 right up to the Gibson takeover in 1958. I've seen them for $700 needing nothing but someone to love them. Pawn shops and Craigs list. Or find a '50s ES-125 Gibbo thick body. Don't plug it in. Same deal. Those are starting to take off but I looked at one recently for $900. Nowhere to go but up.

 

Whatever.

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Something like the Aria FA71. Wouldn't that be considered a reasonably priced knock-off? Anybody here own one? I'd really like to know what it sounds like acoustically. I have an Eastman 810E now which I adore. I also have a Saga Gitane gypsy guitar which is ok. I'd consider adding anAria to it if anybody can comment.

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What benefits do you get from an archtop guitar (usually with f-holes I'm assuming)? They're nowhere near as common as typical flattop acoustics, and I read a Guitar World article (great source I know
;)
) awhile ago saying they couldn't compete with a regular flattop dread in terms of volume and projection.

 

...volume. Or at least the frequencies many people have become used to hearing.

 

Queequeg makes a great point about how loud a little violin can be, but it takes a pretty big-bodied archtop guitar to compete with a dread (although a dread is a large body style, too).

 

And even the smaller archtops don't sound as loud as their flat top OM counterparts because they don't have ringing highs or booming lows.

 

Violins were designed to be loud and to cut, and they're an acquired taste for many people to get used to hearing.

Archtops were made to accel at nasally, barking mids, too -- so that they would cut through a mix in their design era. Since flat-top acoustics have been more popular (wider dynamic range, volume, easier to make), that tone has sorta fallen by the wayside.

 

Maybe they'll have their own little revival. Gypsy jazz boxes (more of a "domed" top than an arched top, but definitely not a flat-top tone) were left only to hand builders for a long time, but they're having quite a renaissance. Maybe Saga will see the market open up for regular archtops.

 

Or maybe Eric Clapton could just do UnPlugged again and play an archie instead of a 000. ;)

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Wouldn't a cheap, electric archtop with a floating pickup also do the trick?

 

Like this Epiphone, for example:

 

B0002H0LLE.01-AIMZUKBRH6H15._AA280_SCLZZ

 

I've never played this one, but I do own a relatively small bodied archtop with a floating pickup. It sounds pretty good unplugged, the only thing it lacks is volume but a bigger bodied archtop won't have that problem I think.

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Heck, I don't even think you'd have to have to go with solid wood to hand carve in the first place. I remember reading an Acoustic Guitar magazine with a pretty hot jazz player (John Pizarelli, if memory serves) who had a custom-made, all-laminate guitar made by someone. He wanted something that could really deal with adverse climate changes.

 

 

But, does he play it unplugged? In the forties, when guitars were starting to use electronic pickups and amplifiers to augment their volume, the archtops of the day were purposefully built with laminate tops to cut down on feedback resonance. Gibson has an extensive article on their website about archtop design during this period that is fascinating to read. The jazzers of the day (guys like BB King) wanted a less resonant top and so had them built that way.

 

 

Queequeg makes a great point about how loud a little violin can be, but it takes a pretty big-bodied archtop guitar to compete with a dread (although a dread is a large body style, too).

 

 

Makes me wonder about how the sound is derived. When you pluck a guitar string, the energy fed into the string is momentary. After that initial pluck, even in a guitar with great sustain, the energy falls off very quickly causing a diminution of the sound volume produced by the string. In a bowed instrument like the violin, doesn't the bow continue to pour energy into the string keeping its volume level elevated? I dunno, but I'd like to hear an expert's opinion.

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Makes me wonder about how the sound is derived. When you pluck a guitar string, the energy fed into the string is momentary. After that initial pluck, even in a guitar with great sustain, the energy falls off very quickly causing a diminution of the sound volume produced by the string. In a bowed instrument like the violin, doesn't the bow continue to pour energy into the string keeping its volume level elevated? I dunno, but I'd like to hear an expert's opinion.

 

 

That sounds about right.

 

But sustain is one matter, and volume another. It does make me wonder how a violin can be so loud, while an archtop guitar compared to a similar-sized flat top probably won't be much louder (although it may cut through a band mix a little better, frequency-wise).

 

I did get to play a Loar recently, and volume-wise, it truly wasn't any louder than any of the flat-tops in the store.

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That sounds about right.


But sustain is one matter, and volume another. It does make me wonder how a violin can be so loud, while an archtop guitar compared to a similar-sized flat top probably won't be much louder (although it may cut through a band mix a little better, frequency-wise).


I did get to play a Loar recently, and volume-wise, it truly wasn't any louder than any of the flat-tops in the store.

 

correctamundo. sustain vs volume.

And The Loar is actually on the bottom rung of the archtop ladder @ $1000. I am not arguing that a flat top dred is not a high volume guitar. Unquestionably, indeed it is. and a bit easier to build. the wonderful thing about this free market of ours is that anyone who believes they wish to build a $200 archtop is welcome to go for it. We eagerly await your results!

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correctamundo. sustain vs volume.

And The Loar is actually on the bottom rung of the archtop ladder @ $1000. I am not arguing that a flat top dred is not a high volume guitar. Unquestionably, indeed it is. and a bit easier to build. the wonderful thing about this free market of ours is that anyone who believes they wish to build a $200 archtop is welcome to go for it. We eagerly await your results!

 

Hey, if I had the luthier skills necessary, I'd even try my hand at an archtop ukulele. :D

 

Unfortunately, I'm just another hack who can barely piece together a Strat.

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Thanks for the explanation! I've wanted an archtop for awhile actually, mostly because I think they look cool. I remember seeing the one that was used in my Mel Bay chord book and thinking how cool it was, but never seeing a guitar like it in a music store.

 

I did have a pseudo-archtop for awhile - it was actually an Alvarez flat-top made to look like an archtop from far away. It had curves similar to a mini jumbo and two big f-holes instead of the normal soundhole. It played and sounded alright but wasn't really my thing so I sold it.

 

I was just browsing some old-time country videos on YouTube and saw Kitty Wells playing an archtop with two pickguards. Man that thing looked huge on her. I'll see if I can find it...

 

Okay, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yPlmgxOi80

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