What does it mean to have a guitar "set up"

[TCBronson]

What does it mean to have a guitar "set up"

Another words, what all do they do to the guitar?

And is it usually free with the purchase of the guitar or do they charge extra?

If you bring your guitar in to be set up, what would they charge if you did not buy it there?

And lastly, is there seperate prices for different work:

 

New strings

 

The nut re-sculpted and lowered to have lower string heights close to the head

 

Modify the nut for wider string spacing

 

The saddle resculptured and filed for even string heights

 

The frets filed or smoothed out

 

Nut and saddle heights coordinated together

 

Adjust the neck for straightness

 

Set Intonation

 

Check bracing or modify the bracing

 

Cleaning and or waxing and buffing

 

Recheck all adjustments due to settling of the wood

 

Any other items left out that need to be adjusted or checked?

[Cripes]

The basic set-up is having the strings positioned relative to the fretboard per your preference. Sometimes there isn't a charge for it and sometimes there is. If you bought a guitar from a shop they might include a free set-up. Some shops may not employ a tech. Some may have an independent tech on-premises who does charge. It depends on the store.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

The luthier/tech who works on my guitars charges $85 for a set up which includes:

 

-Lowering or raising your saddle to your desired action

 

-deepening of nut slots if string action is too high at the nut.

Too high action at the nut can cause intonation problems with open chords

 

-Checking for any loose or lifting frets.

If any are found to be loose he will fix and re-crown them.

 

-Checking the neck angle

 

-Adjusting the truss-rod to provide the proper neck/fretboard relief

 

-Cleaning and polishing fretboard and frets

 

-Checking and lubrication of the tuners

 

-New strings of your desired brand and gauge

 

-Thorough cleaning of the guitar and all it's components

 

This luthier/tech works out of our local Folklore Center which also sells musical intruments like Washburn, Martin, Blueridge,Walden guitars and if you buy a guitar from them the setup is free.

 

If you'd like a custom made compensated bone saddle the cost is $35

If you'd like a custom cut bone nut the cost is $55

 

Basically if you bring your guitar to him he will make sure it plays buzz free and the way you like it...and usually it's ready the same day or the next.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

I forgot to add. The shop I bought my Martin 000-15 at also has an on-site tech and the setup was free and I have a lifetime warranty with the guitar provided I have the work done by a licensed Martin tech.

 

Also...over the years a guitar will need another setup. The neck angle changes over time, the frets get worn with divots, fretboards get dry etc...So usually after a few years you have to have the saddle lowered again and frets re-crowned but this is just normal maintenance.

 

OGP

[Hudman]

The main purpose of a set up is to inspect the guitar for structural issues (loose braces, humidity problems, etc) and adjust the "action" on the guitar to match the players playing style and preference. This is done by taking precise measurements of the string height at the 1st, 7th and 12th fret, checking the neck angle, inspecting the frets, visual inspection of the braces (mirror and flashlight) and checking the soundboard for flatness. The tech will raise or lower the action as OGP stated above.

 

"Action" is the distance between the strings and the top of the frets.

 

Many techs will perform additional cleaning and fret dressing as needed.

 

You can learn more here:

http://www.bryankimsey.com/

[Cripes]

http://www.guitarnotes.com/notes/noteget.cgi?basic_guitar_setup

 

Basic set-up. Everything else is structural integrity inspections.

[Freeman Keller]

The way I like to think of a setup is to make the guitar play the way you want it to. That should include among other things, a brief check of structural issues, checking and adjusting if necessary the three parts of the neck that affect the way the guitar plays, the nut, the saddle and the string clearance at various places on the fretboard, commonly refered to as relief. A good setup might also include a check of the intonation - the way each string plays as you move up the neck.

 

It might involve replacing and/or modifying some parts - the saddle, possibly the nut and probably the strings (you should be replacing them regularly anyway). It might also include minor repairs - dressing frets, cleaning the fretboard, lubricating tuners - but it will not include any structural repairs.

 

At the end it should play the best it can within the constraints of that particular guitar. Minimum cost is usually $35 to 50 plus parts, making an new nut or saddle will add to the cost.

 

Bryan's site is a good reference and his prices are representative - he has done all the work on my two Martins, including scalloping braces (in your list, definitely not a standard setup item), resetting the neck (ditto), replacing and crowning frets (ditto), fixing cracks and loose bridge (ditto)

 

The basic checks and adjustments are also included in my two Sick Guitar articles in the Tech Section of the Annex - things that you can do at home

[TCBronson]

Thanks for the input. Everything I listed at the opening was certified on the guitar I bought (Zager ZAD 80) and there is alot of contoversy about what should be done and how much it should cost. The paperwork that came with my guitar states that:

 

"each guitar was hand selected, inspected for wood variations, hairline cracks, bracing irregularties and any imperfections that could jeopardize the integrity of the instrument in the future".

 

"The nut is re-sculpted and lowered to ensure lower string heights closeet to the head with slightly wider string spacing"

 

"The saddle is re-sculpted and filed by hand to ensure even string heights and string spacing on the lower portion of the neck"

 

"All frets are filed by hand to reduce "string Bite" and overall finger fatigue. This also eliminates any buzzing strings."

 

"Braces are shaved for mote flexibility in the face which leads to better sound projection for deeper bass and punchy mids and highs."

 

"Nut and Saddle heights are coordinated together to conform to new string pressures used for different string guages and tunings."

 

"All three areas of the neck are orchestrated together to guarantee consistant string heights and even side to side string spacing."

 

"Intonation is set to bring the guitar harmonically in balance with itself which makes each note resonate with clarity and makes your guitar sound more powerfull and makes for easier tuning."

 

"Each instrument is exactingly readjusted after several weeks to account for settling due to wood varitions."

 

"Each instrument is thoroughly cleaned, hand waxed and buffed."

 

"Each guitar undergoes a final fine tune and inspection before shipping".

 

As you can see that is quite a list, and sounds more to me than just a normal $50 - $75 set up. It would take some time to perform all of those tasks correctly. I can not say that each guitar bought at any music store, especially Guitar Centers go through this process as I have outlined above. But, to me, it was worth the extra money to have all of this done and done correctly. I am very happy with the way my guitar sounds and plays and based on my experience it sounds and plays better than other guitars that I have played and that cost alot more. I know this probably sounds like a sales job, or that I am trying to justify my purchase, but I am genuinely happy with this guitar. And no I am not trying to change anbodys mind on Zager guitars, Iam just relaying my experience. If someone is thinking about buying a new acoustic guitar they should experience for themselves all of the options and make an educated buying decision. That's what I did with the help of this forum. I thank all those that have put their 2 cents in and helped me with my buying decision, I have no regrets.

[ldsnack]

 

What does it mean to have a guitar "set up" Another words, what all do they do to the guitar? And is it usually free with the purchase of the guitar or do they charge extra? ?

 

 

You have the power of bargaining leverage... they want your money, yet it's in your pocket! Cut a deal with them.... you will buy the guitar for x amount of dollars and a pro- setup to fit your style of playing..... always offer less than your willing to pay....

 

GL

[Hudman]

 

Thanks for the input. Everything I listed at the opening was certified on the guitar I bought (Zager ZAD 80) and there is alot of contoversy about what should be done and how much it should cost. The paperwork that came with my guitar states that: "each guitar was hand selected, inspected for wood variations, hairline cracks, bracing irregularties and any imperfections that could jeopardize the integrity of the instrument in the future". "The nut is re-sculpted and lowered to ensure lower string heights closeet to the head with slightly wider string spacing" "The saddle is re-sculpted and filed by hand to ensure even string heights and string spacing on the lower portion of the neck" "All frets are filed by hand to reduce "string Bite" and overall finger fatigue. This also eliminates any buzzing strings." "Braces are shaved for mote flexibility in the face which leads to better sound projection for deeper bass and punchy mids and highs." "Nut and Saddle heights are coordinated together to conform to new string pressures used for different string guages and tunings." "All three areas of the neck are orchestrated together to guarantee consistant string heights and even side to side string spacing." "Intonation is set to bring the guitar harmonically in balance with itself which makes each note resonate with clarity and makes your guitar sound more powerfull and makes for easier tuning." "Each instrument is exactingly readjusted after several weeks to account for settling due to wood varitions." "Each instrument is thoroughly cleaned, hand waxed and buffed." "Each guitar undergoes a final fine tune and inspection before shipping". As you can see that is quite a list, and sounds more to me than just a normal $50 - $75 set up. It would take some time to perform all of those tasks correctly. I can not say that each guitar bought at any music store, especially Guitar Centers go through this process as I have outlined above. But, to me, it was worth the extra money to have all of this done and done correctly. I am very happy with the way my guitar sounds and plays and based on my experience it sounds and plays better than other guitars that I have played and that cost alot more. I know this probably sounds like a sales job, or that I am trying to justify my purchase, but I am genuinely happy with this guitar. And no I am not trying to change anbodys mind on Zager guitars, Iam just relaying my experience. If someone is thinking about buying a new acoustic guitar they should experience for themselves all of the options and make an educated buying decision. That's what I did with the help of this forum. I thank all those that have put their 2 cents in and helped me with my buying decision, I have no regrets.

 

 

The frets on a new guitar should not require much attention, unless it's a poor quality guitar. Either way, the frets are inspected and dressed as needed in the set up process. It's a bad idea to file frets flat. They should be crowned.

 

Many guitars come standard with scalloped braces (Sigma comes with scalloped braces - therefore, they don't require additional scalloping). Removing more material from scalloped braces could damage the structural integrity of the guitar. Especially, doing it through the soundhole after the guitar is already built. It would be very difficult to control a chisel in that tight of an area. That is a task for a highly skilled luthier.

 

I seriously doubt Denny has to do much to the guitars being built to his specs. He wouldn't be a very smart business man if he is paying them to build a guitar that needs a bunch of work before he ships them.

[Raj]

This guy's just trying to make yet another Zager thread.

[TCBronson]

Nope, I'm done

[Scott Fonseca]

I just want to know how he scallops the braces on the soundboard...

[Freeman Keller]

As I said in my comments, my definition of a "setup" is making the guitar play the way you want it to. It sounds like TB's Zager fits that perfectly.

[Freeman Keller]

I just want to know how he scallops the braces on the soundboard...

 

Scott, is it usually done with fingerplanes and sandpaper thru the sound hole. I have seen pictures of it terrible botched (on I think an old D-35 to add insult to injury). Bryan Kimsey did it to my D-18 and it made a heck of a difference. But, in my opinion, you need to know exactly what you are doing or you can ruin the git. I would never consider it, Bryan charges $100 and warns you that all warranties are void (duh).

 

Most techs will level frets, but not lower them to make the guitar more playable. On my gits Bryan replaced the first 5 and crowned the rest - but they are over 30 years old.

 

 

It might be interesting to see what Bryan would charge to Zager your guitar (I happen to have his page open). We'll use TB's list and see if we can come up with prices

 

 

1 - inspect guitar ($0) - when I sent my gits down to him there was no charge to tell me what they needed.

 

2,3,6,7 - Nut, saddle, setup - Byran charges $80 which include a new bone nut and saddle, $150 for FWI

 

4 - dress frets (if it needs it, Bryan is doing it to old gits with lots of wear) $40 crown and polish, $150 to replace them all (if they are too low or worn out)

 

5 - Scallop braces - $100 (he calls this a hot rod item and cautions to go very carefully. I had minor scalloping done to my overbuilt D-18, none to my D12-28)

 

8 - fix intonation - some old Martins have the bridge in the wrong place - Bryan charges $75 tp 125 to fix (includes a new bone saddle)

 

9 - readjust after the wood settles - huh? If it is properly taken care of the wood shouldn't "settle". Alway wise to check a new setup however.

 

10 - clean, wax, buff - cleaning should be wiping down with a damp rag, please keep the wax off my guitars. Bryan did drop fill and buff a couple of little dings with no charge.

 

11 - final tune and checking before shipping. - Bryan recommends detuning before shipping

 

Looks like if you were to have Mr Kimsey (who I happen to think is one of the finest Martin techs around) Zagerfy your D-28 it would cost about $200 for the minimum. My guitars have come back from Bryan costing $6-700 for all the work he has done. Sounds like Denny is a bargin.

[Scott Fonseca]

Thank you Freeman!

[Freeman Keller]

Thank you Freeman!

 

The cool part of getting my guitars back from Bryan (well, along with how sweet they played) was the little baggie of wood shavings in the case. I thought - that was the bridge plate and braces - cool!

 

There is another guy (can't remember his name) who charges big dollars to revoice your guitar - he actually tunes the top (much as Siminoff or Lloyd Loar do with mandolins) but he does it all thru the sound hole. I have a hell of a time tightening the bolts on the neck of a bolt on - trying to scallop a brace would be a nightmare.

 

If I can find the picture of the botched D-35 scallop job I'll post it. It was really ugly.

[TCBronson]

 

Scott, is it usually done with fingerplanes and sandpaper thru the sound hole. I have seen pictures of it terrible botched (on I think an old D-35 to add insult to injury). Bryan Kimsey did it to my D-18 and it made a heck of a difference. But, in my opinion, you need to know exactly what you are doing or you can ruin the git. I would never consider it, Bryan charges $100 and warns you that all warranties are void (duh). Most techs will level frets, but not lower them to make the guitar more playable. On my gits Bryan replaced the first 5 and crowned the rest - but they are over 30 years old. It might be interesting to see what Bryan would charge to Zager your guitar (I happen to have his page open). We'll use TB's list and see if we can come up with prices 1 - inspect guitar ($0) - when I sent my gits down to him there was no charge to tell me what they needed. 2,3,6,7 - Nut, saddle, setup - Byran charges $80 which include a new bone nut and saddle, $150 for FWI 4 - dress frets (if it needs it, Bryan is doing it to old gits with lots of wear) $40 crown and polish, $150 to replace them all (if they are too low or worn out) 5 - Scallop braces - $100 (he calls this a hot rod item and cautions to go very carefully. I had minor scalloping done to my overbuilt D-18, none to my D12-28) 8 - fix intonation - some old Martins have the bridge in the wrong place - Bryan charges $75 tp 125 to fix (includes a new bone saddle) 9 - readjust after the wood settles - huh? If it is properly taken care of the wood shouldn't "settle". Alway wise to check a new setup however. 10 - clean, wax, buff - cleaning should be wiping down with a damp rag, please keep the wax off my guitars. Bryan did drop fill and buff a couple of little dings with no charge. 11 - final tune and checking before shipping. - Bryan recommends detuning before shipping Looks like if you were to have Mr Kimsey (who I happen to think is one of the finest Martin techs around) Zagerfy your D-28 it would cost about $200 for the minimum. My guitars have come back from Bryan costing $6-700 for all the work he has done. Sounds like Denny is a bargin.

 

 

Has your opinion changed about Zager guitars? Did you or do you think that his guitars are over priced when you consider everything on the list that he does to his guitars? So using your figures I paid $745 for my ZAG 80 minus $200 so the guitar cost $545. I think it is a bargain!

[Freeman Keller]

 

Has your opinion changed about Zager guitars? Did you or do you think that his guitars are over priced when you consider everything on the list that he does to his guitars? So using your figures I paid $745 for my ZAG 80 minus $200 so the guitar cost $545. I think it is a bargain!

 

 

I've never played one. For that kind of money I would expect a decent solid topped laminated b/s guitar that was correctly set up by the store selling it. If they started filing frets for any reason other than one high one I would run as fast as I could. If they started shaving braces and didn't offer me an unlimited lifetime warranty (and the assurance that they would be in business 40 years from now) I would run like crazy.

 

What I was itemizing was the work Kimsey does on a 30 year old Martin to bring it into like new playing condition - there is no way you should have to do that to a new guitar. I had my D-18 scalloped because it came from the era when Martins were over built - if you listen to people like our Bjorn-Fjord who thinks many contemporary Asian built gits are UNderbraced to start with it doesn't make sense to do any more.

 

IMHO a good new guitar should only need minor, let me say that again, minor adjustment in nut, relief and action to play the way I want it (I would give the store my specs as well as telling them which strings I plan to use, how I tune and how I play) - that is all I expect to be done. The going rate for that is $35 to 50, not the $200 I quoted.

 

For another comparison, I think my wife paid about $750 for my Taylor 314 used on evil-bay (but it had never been registered so I have the warranty). All solid wood, Taylor's sweet action out of the box - perfect nut, 0.006 relief, nice Tusq saddle, compensation to +2 cents (I replaced it but never lowered it any). Frets are perfect - no need to file them at all. Ideal action for my fingerstyle plus bottleneck playing - many people have commented on how easy it plays.

 

But the bottom line is, you are happy, what I think doesn't matter at all

[OldGuitarPlayer]

But the bottom line is, you are happy, what I think doesn't matter at all

 

 

+1:thu:

 

I think TB has a pretty decent guitar that will last him many years of enjoyment. That really is all that matters and I for one congratulate anyone who is willing to play guitar and learn about it's maintenance. It sounds to me that TB has the right guitar for him and if it inspires him to play then that is awesome!

 

For now let's stop worrying about "scalloped braces" and "string science" and get down to the business of playing the guitar!

 

TB...you are always welcome to ask any questions here about your guitar and especially about how to play it.

 

All the best!

 

OGP

[TCBronson]

Thanks, guys!

[Freeman Keller]

 

Thanks, guys!

 

 

How about a couple of clips to put up at the Annex?

[jiminy_cricket]

There's a bunch of walkthroughs online that go over the process, but this one is the most thorough: https://www.electricherald.com/guitar-setup-pro-guide/ . They include the specific tools to use too.

 

The process goes like this:

- Set relief

- Check/adjust nut action

- Check/adjust bridge action

- Clean pots & output jack

- Change the strings

- Adjust pickup height

- Check over and lubricate all the hardware (bridge, tuners, etc)

- Set the intonation

- Clean and polish the guitar

 

 

In between each step that involves making adjustments, you need to tune the guitar to pitch every time or else it's not going to come out perfect. That's what I'd consider a proper guitar setup.

[DeepEnd]

Hi and welcome to the Forum. That said, first, this thread is nine and a half years old. Second, this is the Acoustic Guitar Forum and half your steps only apply to an electric. Plus, it's not always necessary to change the strings, depending on how old they are and whether you plan to stick with the same gauge. If you're changing gauges you'd do that before setting relief.

[Freeman Keller]

Jiminy, welcome to HCAG. I'm glad you are interested in setting up guitars, but this may not be the best threads to discuss. First, has has been pointed out, the thread is years old and has been completely inactive since 2008. The originator hasn't posted since 2013. Further, if you read the thread, it really isn't about the steps involved in a setup - its a kind of sneaky way to talk about a guitar (and seller) who is somewhat controversial - what Mr Bronson is really asking is, does the things this guy does to guitars really count as "setting them up".

 

Second, discussions of guitar setups are always welcome here. We like to discuss methods and tools and our own little target specifications, and why we do it that way we do. Your link is to setting up an electric guitar, it is valid in some cases but certainly not what many people would want for their acoustics (and this is the acoustic sub forum of HC). The hard number specs in the link might work for some players but I can promise that others would hate them. As DeepEnd pointed out, some of the steps are not valid for an acoustic while there might be others that apply (that you wouldn't do for an electric).

 

My credentials, by the way, are that I am an amateur builder of both electric and acoustic guitar, do a fair amount of repairs and setups for local musicians as well as my local music store. I've written a couple of articles here about how I approach setups, but I love to learn how others do it. I was also one of the protagonists in the previous incarnation of this thread.

 

I'm going to suggest that you let this die and if you want to discuss guitar setup, start a new discussion. If you specifically want to talk about electric guitars there is a sub forum for that, and again, this would be a valid topic (and link).