Members rickoshea Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 I just restrung my Crafter T035 ( same gauge, same strings ) and have a godawful buzz from the low E ( and only the low E ). It's there played hard-ish open and to a lesser degree fretted, and I'm convinced its coming from the bridge region. My trusty dental mirror went in and the ball is tight against the pin so I don't think I have a problem there. Action is untouched but I went through it all again anyway and its fine. I've replaced the string itself 3 times thinking I had bad ones but they're all the same. Nut slot depth is a touch low but I never had a problem before. So - I'm out of ideas and utterly hacked off lol - any help would be great thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 Strange. Could be a problem with the saddle - did you disturb it when you changed strings? If not I would try slacking off the truss rod a 1/4 turn to see if it clears it. My Crafter reacts to even a 1 gauge difference in strings - try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickoshea Posted April 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 Strange. Could be a problem with the saddle - did you disturb it when you changed strings? If not I would try slacking off the truss rod a 1/4 turn to see if it clears it. My Crafter reacts to even a 1 gauge difference in strings - try it.aye - I had a look at the saddle and noticed it's shimmed. I have a spare TUSQ one here so might give that a shot. I did the truss rod with no result. I just slipped a bit of shim in the nut slot for the low E to raise the height a touch but no difference. I'm dumfounded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samilyn Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 aye - I had a look at the saddle and noticed it's shimmed. I have a spare TUSQ one here so might give that a shot. I did the truss rod with no result. I just slipped a bit of shim in the nut slot for the low E to raise the height a touch but no difference. I'm dumfounded Hmmmm......Is the saddle fully or partially shimmed? A partial shim might have slipped. I would definitely change out the saddle, but perhaps that's just me, because I personally don't care for saddle shims.Also, get out your ruler or straightedge and check the frets. Perhaps one has worked loose and raised just a wee bit? If the straightedge rocks, you'll know you've got a high fret there somewhere.Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brokepick Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 FWIW, may apply, may not. The saddle fell out of a guitar while I was restringing it. I inadvertently put it back in the bridge backwards. Got the same result you speak of. Turned the saddle around, and the buzz was still there, only less. Turns out, there was a shim under the saddle that also fell out with the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickoshea Posted April 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 FWIW, may apply, may not. The saddle fell out of a guitar while I was restringing it. I inadvertently put it back in the bridge backwards. Got the same result you speak of. Turned the saddle around, and the buzz was still there, only less. Turns out, there was a shim under the saddle that also fell out with the bridge. I've done this before myself lol ... but not this time ( if only it were that simple ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samilyn Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 Thanks Sami ... the frets are all fine and I changed the saddle with no result - damn I've done this before myself lol ... but not this time ( if only it were that simple ) Damn....That's really weird!I guess a visit to a competent tech is now in order. Hope you get it resolved soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 It sounds as though your saddle shim slipped during the string change, but I'd re-set neck relief before taking things further. Whereabouts is the buzz? If everything was fine beforehand and the problem is isolated to the low E and possibly A string I'd definitely suspect the saddle is lower than it was prior to your string swap and the only solution is a re-saddle.I'd utilise the TUSQ blank, make the new saddle as tall as you can comfortably manage and bring her down suit to your preferred action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 Thanks Sami ... the frets are all fine and I changed the saddle with no result - damn I've done this before myself lol ... but not this time ( if only it were that simple ) Just noticed your post after I'd submitted my last reply.Have the strings been binding during tuning?How many strings and frets does she buzz on and whereabouts on the neck?Have you checked your tuner bushings? One may need tightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Soul Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 Just to go out on a limb you might check if one of your frets or inner body supports is loose. Sounds like you covered most of the bases though, good luck! Soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickoshea Posted April 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 Just noticed your post after I'd submitted my last reply. Have the strings been binding during tuning? How many strings and frets does she buzz on and whereabouts on the neck? Have you checked your tuner bushings? One may need tightening. Thanks Gary ... what do you mean "binding" ? .... the buzz is mainly when its played open ( played hard thumbpicked - strangely not much flatpicked or strummed ) and to me seems to be from the bridge region. I've had my hand inside putting pressure on everything I can find to localise it with no luck. Its a real "waspy" buzz too and I'm close to doing a "Pete Townsend" in frustration lol ... actually even I wont be that stupid with my favourite guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jd-drafter Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 the binding he's speaking of may be in the nut slots- is the guitar coming to tune correctly? i have heard of using a bit of pencil lead to ease the friction in the slots- best of luck... maybe stepping away from it for a but will give you a fresh take on it... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bjorn-fjord Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 I'd have another look at that nut. You say that it buzzes mainly when the string is played open. Is it possible that the slight buzz you hear when a note is fretted was there all along and that it just seems more prominent because you've become overly "buzz sensitive"? Trust me, it happens to the best of us. Intense focus on "problems" tends to result in finding more problems than are actually there. It happens to me all the time. Keep in mind that with the right attack you can make almost any note buzz. The wound strings act like files on the nut slots and the low E is the coarsest "file" of all. Nut buzzes usually occur right after a re-stringing. Fret the low E at the second fret and measure your tolerances at the first fret. Anything below .008 could be suspect. Buzzes always sound like they're coming from the bridge because that's where the energy of the strings is transfered to the sound box. A buzz from a loose tuner sounds like it's coming from the bridge because that's where all sounds are amplified. And yeah, what the hell, check all screws and bushings to make sure everything is snug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickoshea Posted April 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 yeah - it tunes fine. Bjorn - its definitely not me - this is a mean buzz lol. I don't have much clearance at all at the first fret when I fret the second ( had done that already, and slipped a tiny bit of shim in the nut slot to raise the string a bit but it didnt help ) ... maybe the low E has deepened itself a touch in the slot. I have no clue how to find a tech in France to replace the nut though, its not something I've ever tried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 You'll quite often find buzzing stems from either end of the string's working length, or - in other words - the nut or saddle. Strings binding in slots, buzzing on first frets, buzzing against the rear of the saddle crown, string ends rattling, tuner bushings and nuts buzzing, etc..Just one more question. Did you remove all of the strings at once or one at a time? The "all at once" method is fine, but you'll often find a neck can relax slightly whilst unstrung and - partnered with a low action and shallow neck relief - buzzing can be a bit of an overnight hassle, but quite often resolves itself as the neck reacts to being re-strung and string tension countering the action of the truss rod.Reading you're not having problems with picking or fingerstyle, but encountering buzzing when using a thumb pick tends to indicate a need for raising your action and/or improving neck relief. It could simply be a combination of your guitar's reaction to a re-string, slightly too little neck relief to compensate for heavier string attack and low action. One simple check is to measure relief and action on another instrument that doesn't suffer from buzzing and potentially replicate it's settings on your Crafter. --------If it were to boil down to the need for a nut replacement, the exercise isn't as complex or expensive as it may seem, but I'd see if we can resolve the problem before considering that route.The joys of guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 70>0 Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 When you take the strings off, the neck relaxes, and pulls back some. The truss could be bound up, and has'nt returned to where it was before the strings came off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members masterbuilt Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 Is there a pickup in the guitar? If so, check for a wire making contact with the bridge pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TESmith Posted April 29, 2009 Members Share Posted April 29, 2009 I was thinking about the nut, wondering if in doing the string change it was possible the rubbing action of actual changing could have created a small burr on the nut slot........It would be a long shot but seems everything else is being looked at, may take a good close look making certain the slot is smooth and free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickoshea Posted April 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 You'll quite often find buzzing stems from either end of the string's working length, or - in other words - the nut or saddle. Strings binding in slots, buzzing on first frets, buzzing against the rear of the saddle crown, string ends rattling, tuner bushings and nuts buzzing, etc.. Just one more question. Did you remove all of the strings at once or one at a time? The "all at once" method is fine, but you'll often find a neck can relax slightly whilst unstrung and - partnered with a low action and shallow neck relief - buzzing can be a bit of an overnight hassle, but quite often resolves itself as the neck reacts to being re-strung and string tension countering the action of the truss rod. Reading you're not having problems with picking or fingerstyle, but encountering buzzing when using a thumb pick tends to indicate a need for raising your action and/or improving neck relief. It could simply be a combination of your guitar's reaction to a re-string, slightly too little neck relief to compensate for heavier string attack and low action. One simple check is to measure relief and action on another instrument that doesn't suffer from buzzing and potentially replicate it's settings on your Crafter. -------- If it were to boil down to the need for a nut replacement, the exercise isn't as complex or expensive as it may seem, but I'd see if we can resolve the problem before considering that route. The joys of guitar. the joys indeed Gary lol. Its settled a touch overnight but still there. Just looking at the nut clearance again ... if I fret at 2 theres little or no gap between the low E and the first fret. But having shimmed a tad under the string at the nut it still buzzes - weird. I can live with it - as long as I dont strike with my thumb too hard its ok. I have a feeling as Tim said the low E has deepened the slot in the nut whilst restringing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 the joys indeed Gary lol. Its settled a touch overnight but still there. Just looking at the nut clearance again ... if I fret at 2 theres little or no gap between the low E and the first fret. But having shimmed a tad under the string at the nut it still buzzes - weird. I can live with it - as long as I dont strike with my thumb too hard its ok. I have a feeling as Tim said the low E has deepened the slot in the nut whilst restringing Indeed they are joys mate and that's why we enjoy playing them, but problems akin to this one are enough to drive someone to distraction. It's like having a wierd rattling or creaking noise in the car and being unable to pinpoint the source. There should be a faint glimmer of daylight between 1st fret and string when it's held down between the 2nd and 3rd fret. It's possible the buzzing you're describing tends to (If from the nut) be the result of insufficient ramping, nut slot dia. or neck relief. I'd suspect - if the problem has eased slightly overnight - the neck is beginning to ease back into place (From flat or minimal relief) under string tension as they pull the neck into position and counter truss rod action.1st fret action on one of my set-ups is (On average);Capo'd at 3rd fret and measured above 1st fret.E = 0.05mmB = 0.05mmG = 0.10mmD = 0.15mmA = 0.20mmE = 0.25mmNut slot depth (On one of my set-ups involving 10-12 gauge strings) typically measures through at approximately the same height as the combined fret height and 1st fret action I've provided. This is pretty low, but varies upon an individual's playing style and string attack. In essence, nut slot depths should equal the height of a fret/zero fret + plus allowance for wear and tear and playing preferences.These measurements can be and are affected by neck adjustment and I generally vary relief between 0.008"-0.010" / 0.20mm-0.25mm. Neck relief is the first thing I adjust before checking nut slots and progressing on to set action via the saddle.I think it may pay for you to check neck relief and re-adjust - if necessary - before moving onto nut slots and action considerations. If the buzzing continues after things have been re-set, we can work through the problem more easily. At this point it may pay to check and compare fretboard and saddle radii to see if there's a slight discrepancy between the two.Do you have any needle files? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members larry50 Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 Gary mentioned the tuner bushings. I have a Martin OM-16GT that had the same problem on the G string. All the other strings sounded normally. Turned out it was a loose bushing. Might want to check that before you begin stretching out to re-saddles and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 Hi Ricky If the nut is at fault you can try this: Slacken off the strings. Tap off the nut by placing a flat end against it (end of ruler) and giving the ruler a sharp tap - nut will only be spot glued on and will come off easily. Make a shim from a slice of credit card or something even thinnner, pop it under the nut and retune the strings - the strings will hold the nut in place. See if that sorts the problem. If so you can get a new nut (or even just use the old one shimmed - a couple of spots of general purpose adhesive to hold the nut and shim together and to the headstock will do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickoshea Posted April 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 Thanks for all the replies guys ... Gary - I'll do the measurements from home cause I'm hurting ( sorry treating ) people who talk a strange language very quickly to me atm. Garthman - I may just have a crack at that if nothing else works but wouldn't me popping in a wee bit of shim actually in the nut slot like I did to raise the string a bit have diagnosed the buzz ? I'm off to stick sharp things in victims ( I mean patients ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 Garthman - I may just have a crack at that if nothing else works but wouldn't me popping in a wee bit of shim actually in the nut slot like I did to raise the string a bit have diagnosed the buzz ? Well - it should have done but who knows? It's just a trick I've used in the past to cure string buzz due to nut slots being too deep.It's certainly a weird problem you have, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickoshea Posted April 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 that it is ... damned strange. Measurements to be done in the morning to compare with Garys then maybe I can get to the bottom of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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