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how do repaired cracks affect vintage value?

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  • how do repaired cracks affect vintage value?

    ^ ??

    here's a bit of back story- I was looking at buying a "vintage" (73) acoustic from someone but it had a big bridge crack along 5 of the pins that was repaired as well as a crack in the top about 4" that was repaired (looks like a decent job was done on the repairs structurally- but they were def still noticeable). It also had the endpin widened for a pickup.

    He had the guitar priced at probably 85% of a mint example. I was thinking it should have been more about 65%- a pretty big difference in opinion of what it's worth. So do repaired cracks make a big difference in terms of vintage? Or do they not matter if they are repaired?
    [SIZE="1"]guits:
    PRS hollowbody II, std22
    Gibson Les Paul Custom
    Fender 62 deluxe vintage players strat (ice blue w/ S1) and 08 Jeff Beck strat
    guild Dc4nt acoustic
    Fender USA Jazz V
    Mele koa ukulele

    amps:
    VHT pitbull classic combo
    Mesa Roadking (ver 1)
    Soldano Astroverb combo
    Fender Deluxe

  • #2
    Vintage market is all about what someone would pay for them so it is hard to say. I wouldn't pay 80% mint value with those types of cracks. I'ld rather wait and pay the extra 20% to get a mint one. But like I said value is what people would pay for it.
    2008 Guild F-50
    2007 Blueridge BR-140
    2013 J45
    2013 CA Cargo

    Comment


    • #3
      Bridge cracks aren't a big deal. You can replace the whole bridge with a new one for $100. Top cracks are definitely more of a turn-off for cork sniffer collector snobs...which makes them great deals for musicians. I would think that a lot of the value would be more to do with the model in question. BTW most American guitar manufacturers weren't making their best quality in the 70's and they aren't highly regarded by collectors (Martin, Gibson, Guild)
      They have all the repair issues and none of the mojo.

      So what model is it? I never understand why people are so coy with the details.
      "I don't want to be immortalized through my work. I want to be immortalized by not dying." Woody Allen

      Comment


      • #4
        'Capo makes a very good point - lets say you are talking about a 73 Martin (I happen to own a 74 D18). That is considered one of Martins low points (and Gibson and Harley Davidson and General Motors....). These guitars might be becoming "vintage" in age, but they are not super valuable to most collectors.

        That said, many of them do have cracks and structural issues - my 74 had both the common pick guard crack and a "key crack" in the side - I had them fixed and the guitar is a wonderful player. It's not so valuable that it stays in a glass case - it goes out gigging (at one time was even my campfire guitar).

        The things I would worry more about on a 73 guitar is (1) the neck angle - almost every guitar that old needs a reset. (2) if the bridge is cracked, replace it, and probably repair the bridgeplate too (if it is a Martie, consider having the rosewood plate replaced with maple). There is a good chance the bridge is pulling up - replacing it will fix that. (3) If it is a Martin, remember that many 70's had the bridge actually glued in the wrong place - if so fill so fill the slot and rerout or replace the bridge. (4) Replace, crown or othewise fix frets. (5) Many 73's do not have adjustable truss rods - you might need to pull frets and plane out some relief. (6) Any other playability issues - tuners, strurctural problems. Notice that I am not talking about making it a pristine closet queen - make it a player and take it out and play it.

        You might also want to find out exactly why it cracked at the pin holes - did someone try to force the wrong taper pin into it, has it had humidity issues, maybe an attempt to fix a bellied top with a Bridge Doctor.

        Perspective - I gave $600 for my D18 many years ago, put 700 into repairs and a little hot rodding, it is probably worth somewhere around 1500 right now, but in this market I doubt that I could get that much.

        Even if it is not a Martin, these are good reading if you are in the used guitar market

        http://www.bryankimsey.com/70s_D28/index.htm

        http://www.bryankimsey.com/problems/index.htm

        Comment


        • #5
          It's a gibson heritage custom- a bastard child of the older gibsons; however, i really like that particular model. I would say that a mint 73 should go for about 1500. He claims he bluebooked it and is charging 85% which is $1400. I think he's trying to add in the cost of the LR baggs pickup that was put in but that does not add 1 cent more to the value as far as I'm concerned.

          I'm not even gonna make him an offer cause I probably wouldn't be willing to do more than like 900 (the guitar sounded good but didn't wow me like other vintage ones have- I'd say it's probably a 6.5/10 on "sound quality" which is why I'm less inclined to pay anything for it).
          [SIZE="1"]guits:
          PRS hollowbody II, std22
          Gibson Les Paul Custom
          Fender 62 deluxe vintage players strat (ice blue w/ S1) and 08 Jeff Beck strat
          guild Dc4nt acoustic
          Fender USA Jazz V
          Mele koa ukulele

          amps:
          VHT pitbull classic combo
          Mesa Roadking (ver 1)
          Soldano Astroverb combo
          Fender Deluxe

          Comment


          • #6
            oh and one thing about the bridges on heritage customs- they are really funky so it would be very difficult to replace it
            [SIZE="1"]guits:
            PRS hollowbody II, std22
            Gibson Les Paul Custom
            Fender 62 deluxe vintage players strat (ice blue w/ S1) and 08 Jeff Beck strat
            guild Dc4nt acoustic
            Fender USA Jazz V
            Mele koa ukulele

            amps:
            VHT pitbull classic combo
            Mesa Roadking (ver 1)
            Soldano Astroverb combo
            Fender Deluxe

            Comment


            • #7
              OK, the biggie for me would be the neck angle (which wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker, but if it was bad I would negotiate immediately $300 or more off the asking price).

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd say it's probably a 6.5/10 on "sound quality" which is why I'm less inclined to pay anything for it).


                Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't consider paying $500 for what I considered a 6.5 in sound. There is just too much quality competition to invest in a guitar that doesn't wow you.
                2008 Guild F-50
                2007 Blueridge BR-140
                2013 J45
                2013 CA Cargo

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK, the biggie for me would be the neck angle (which wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker, but if it was bad I would negotiate immediately $300 or more off the asking price).


                  well i checked all the frets up to the soundhole and no fretting out, etc- there doesn't seem to be an issue with playability (i assume this would become apparent if the neck angle were off??)
                  [SIZE="1"]guits:
                  PRS hollowbody II, std22
                  Gibson Les Paul Custom
                  Fender 62 deluxe vintage players strat (ice blue w/ S1) and 08 Jeff Beck strat
                  guild Dc4nt acoustic
                  Fender USA Jazz V
                  Mele koa ukulele

                  amps:
                  VHT pitbull classic combo
                  Mesa Roadking (ver 1)
                  Soldano Astroverb combo
                  Fender Deluxe

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't consider paying $500 for what I considered a 6.5 in sound. There is just too much quality competition to invest in a guitar that doesn't wow you.


                    I guess I should clarify- a 6.5/10 on a "vintage" scale in terms of mellowed out sweet top end and nicely blended lows. Overall it's probably an 8.5 in sound- I have no doubt that it would crush most if not all the NEW martins/taylors that I've played as well as the new gibbys (if you've ever played new guitars next to a good vintage piece, the newer ones sound incredibly harsh).

                    But I've played a 68 Hummingbird that **************** all over every other acoustic I have ever heard in my life (I really regret not buying it but it probably needed the neck angle adjusted), and another 73ish heritage custom at guitar center that sounded fantastic but had a 10+ inch crack in the back and a smaller one on top that were unrepaired (and I finally decided despite their price being high I was going to buy it anyway- then the next time I walked in the store it was sold )

                    So I guess what I'm trying to say is that this guitar just wasn't "the one" but I was curious about how repairs should alter the value/vintage for future reference if I happen to find one that I really want.
                    [SIZE="1"]guits:
                    PRS hollowbody II, std22
                    Gibson Les Paul Custom
                    Fender 62 deluxe vintage players strat (ice blue w/ S1) and 08 Jeff Beck strat
                    guild Dc4nt acoustic
                    Fender USA Jazz V
                    Mele koa ukulele

                    amps:
                    VHT pitbull classic combo
                    Mesa Roadking (ver 1)
                    Soldano Astroverb combo
                    Fender Deluxe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If it doesn't wow you, take a pass. A better example of this model wil turn up eventually, and it'll be worth what you're willing to pay.

                      "Bluebooking" by the buyer/seller is no substitute for an appraisal by someone who is on top of the market and familiar with "Vintage" instruments. If you're selling or GASsing it's easy to downplay cosmetics, repairs, structural defects, alterations that may affect market value. I have an uncle with a house full of collectible items. Old advertising stuff, even a 50-something Buick in the garage. All this stuff might have been worth something once, but the condition has deteriorated to the point it's worthless. But he bluebooked it all once, and he will never be convinced it's not a gold mine.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's a gibson heritage custom- a bastard child of the older gibsons; however, i really like that particular model. I would say that a mint 73 should go for about 1500. He claims he bluebooked it and is charging 85% which is $1400. I think he's trying to add in the cost of the LR baggs pickup that was put in but that does not add 1 cent more to the value as far as I'm concerned.

                        I'm not even gonna make him an offer cause I probably wouldn't be willing to do more than like 900 (the guitar sounded good but didn't wow me like other vintage ones have- I'd say it's probably a 6.5/10 on "sound quality" which is why I'm less inclined to pay anything for it).


                        One of these?


                        $900 is about the upper end of what I'd pay for an early-70s model, but the earlier (mid-late 60s) are pretty nice.

                        God(s) bless the rest of the world(s), too

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          yup, the ones with the block inlays- honestly, all my research indicates that these are not desirable and should be had for about 1200 for a very good condition early 70s- but that's not the case realistically because guitar center managed to sell that one with all those issues for 1k and I haven't seen any others except for the one this guys is selling.
                          [SIZE="1"]guits:
                          PRS hollowbody II, std22
                          Gibson Les Paul Custom
                          Fender 62 deluxe vintage players strat (ice blue w/ S1) and 08 Jeff Beck strat
                          guild Dc4nt acoustic
                          Fender USA Jazz V
                          Mele koa ukulele

                          amps:
                          VHT pitbull classic combo
                          Mesa Roadking (ver 1)
                          Soldano Astroverb combo
                          Fender Deluxe

                          Comment



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