Members Brindleleaf Posted July 4, 2010 Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 Hey everyone, I've been trying to figure out whether I need to adjust my truss rod, and after spending a bit of time looking at it seriously on the net, I realised that the truss rod WASN'T the problem...it's that the saddle is WAY too high...so (an easy Sunday afternoon project right..?!) I'm going to sand down the saddle... What kind of distances should I be looking for..? For teh moment I've got something like 0.46mm at the first fret, 4mm at the 12th and maybe 7 or 8mm at the 20th..! (Actually no problem for my typical cowboy chords, or when I tune down to some weird celtic tuning....but harder to fret cleanly and quickly high up the fretboard....). Thanks for any info.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted July 4, 2010 Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 Depends heavily on your playing style and technique.A good player, who strikes the strings in parallel to the fret-/soundboard can have "painted-on" strings, while someone, who plucks them at an angle needs higher action.A fingerstyle-artist might need less action than a flatpicker or a strummer.Those, who play harder and louder need higher actions than those, who play more mellow and relaxed I go for "as low, as the style allows", which means that on my FG730 - used for fingerpicking - I have an action that is more than 1mm at the 12th fret lower than on the Tak, which is used for strumming. The D40 will probably get lower action than the D35.When adjusting the action, I always have the old saddle and a new blank one. The blanks cost me a fiver or less each. So, I lower the action by sanding off the bottom of the saddle and when it's ok, I'm ok. When I go too low and the strings hit the frets, then I transfer the old saddle plus a hair's width to the new one and I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brindleleaf Posted July 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 Depends heavily on your playing style and technique.A good player, who strikes the strings in parallel to the fret-/soundboard can have "painted-on" strings, while someone, who plucks them at an angle needs higher action.A fingerstyle-artist might need less action than a flatpicker or a strummer.Those, who play harder and louder need higher actions than those, who play more mellow and relaxedI go for "as low, as the style allows", which means that on my FG730 - used for fingerpicking - I have an action that is more than 1mm at the 12th fret lower than on the Tak, which is used for strumming. The D40 will probably get lower action than the D35.When adjusting the action, I always have the old saddle and a new blank one. The blanks cost me a fiver or less each. So, I lower the action by sanding off the bottom of the saddle and when it's ok, I'm ok. When I go too low and the strings hit the frets, then I transfer the old saddle plus a hair's width to the new one and I'm done. Okay thanks, sp first I've got to figure what I'm going to play on this guitar...okay... When you pick up a new saddle are they all the same, or do you need a particular one for a particular guitar..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted July 4, 2010 Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 They come in different dimensions.I use the pre-intonated TusQ blanks, as they are easier to handle than bone or ivory and sound as good - at least to me.Take out the old one and go to the music shop of your least mistrust.They might not have the proper length or thickness, then you will have to buy a longer and/or thicker one and sand it to size. I double-tape some fine and very fine glass paper to a 6x4 inch piece of glass and sand them down to size on that very flat surface.If push comes to showem you might have to buy a blank blank, that is just a piece of TusQ/Corian or watever you want. Then, you have to apply the curvature of the top (usually 16" radius or more) - not too bad if you can copy the curvature of the original one, and you have to aply the intonation (a diagonal ramp across the thickness of the blank from E-G, then a cutback to the back for B and up to the top of the blank for E', too.I tried and messed up with that on my first attempt, got me a pre-compensated blank and now I'm happy with those. If you use the guitar for more than one style, obviously adjust for the loudest/most dynamic playing. It's easier to shave off a few 1/10th than adding them on again ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brindleleaf Posted July 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 They come in different dimensions. I use the pre-intonated TusQ blanks, as they are easier to handle than bone or ivory and sound as good - at least to me. Take out the old one and go to the music shop of your least mistrust. They might not have the proper length or thickness, then you will have to buy a longer and/or thicker one and sand it to size. I double-tape some fine and very fine glass paper to a 6x4 inch piece of glass and sand them down to size on that very flat surface. If push comes to showem you might have to buy a blank blank, that is just a piece of TusQ/Corian or watever you want. Then, you have to apply the curvature of the top (usually 16" radius or more) - not too bad if you can copy the curvature of the original one, and you have to aply the intonation (a diagonal ramp across the thickness of the blank from E-G, then a cutback to the back for B and up to the top of the blank for E', too. I tried and messed up with that on my first attempt, got me a pre-compensated blank and now I'm happy with those. If you use the guitar for more than one style, obviously adjust for the loudest/most dynamic playing. It's easier to shave off a few 1/10th than adding them on again ;-) Ok cheers! P.S. if you haven't had the nerve to show the missus you nexw guitare and want a place to hide for a year or two...let me know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted July 4, 2010 Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 Have you heard about the (unofficial) HCAG Annex? It's a little site that a few here maintain on their own nickle and there's even a tech section with an article that addresses this very thing (among other things): http://www.thekrashsite.com/annex/SickGuitar.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brindleleaf Posted July 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 Have you heard about the (unofficial) HCAG Annex? It's a little site that a few here maintain on their own nickle and there's even a tech section with an article that addresses this very thing (among other things): http://www.thekrashsite.com/annex/SickGuitar.htm Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitmo Posted July 4, 2010 Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 Hey everyone,I've been trying to figure out whether I need to adjust my truss rod, and after spending a bit of time looking at it seriously on the net, I realised that the truss rod WASN'T the problem...it's that the saddle is WAY too high...so (an easy Sunday afternoon project right..?!) I'm going to sand down the saddle...What kind of distances should I be looking for..?For teh moment I've got something like 0.46mm at the first fret, 4mm at the 12th and maybe 7 or 8mm at the 20th..! (Actually no problem for my typical cowboy chords, or when I tune down to some weird celtic tuning....but harder to fret cleanly and quickly high up the fretboard....).Thanks for any info.... I would recommend a Graphtech Tusq pre-intonated saddle, cutting a blank is an advanced opertion and the pre-intonated is a real time saver. The pre-intonated only needs to be fitted. You want a tight fit, it should fill the slot completely. Not so tight you have to force it in as you can risk splitting the bridge, just snug. Sand the bottom to get it to the height you desire. I would use the old saddle as a guide. Make sure the intonation is oriented properly when placing the new saddle in the bridge, there are plenty of references on the Internet. I wouldn't overlook the truss rod adjustment, you want it proper so the strings are at the proper height when the new saddle is fit correctly. I would look everything over carefully and take notes on how much you want to lower it while it's strung with the old saddle. Good luck, let us know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brindleleaf Posted July 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 I would recommend a Graphtech Tusq pre-intonated saddle, cutting a blank is an advanced opertion and the pre-intonated is a real time saver. The pre-intonated only needs to be fitted.You want a tight fit, it should fill the slot completely. Not so tight you have to force it in as you can risk splitting the bridge, just snug. Sand the bottom to get it to the height you desire. I would use the old saddle as a guide. Make sure the intonation is oriented properly when placing the new saddle in the bridge, there are plenty of references on the Internet. I wouldn't overlook the truss rod adjustment, you want it proper so the strings are at the proper height when the new saddle is fit correctly. I would look everything over carefully and take notes on how much you want to lower it while it's strung with the old saddle. Good luck, let us know how it goes. Okay that sounds reasonably simple, but I went to Freeman's site as recommended above, and checked the neck alignment with a yardstick as he suggested. When I run it along the fretboard it ends up about 2mm above the bridge....any idea of that's a real problem..? (Funny cos that means the strings would be even higher if the neck was dead straight!) For the trussrod, the neck seems to have just the right curve to it, but I'll see how it works out when the other adjustments are done.. Thanks for the info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitmo Posted July 4, 2010 Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 Okay that sounds reasonably simple, but I went to Freeman's site as recommended above, and checked the neck alignment with a yardstick as he suggested. When I run it along the fretboard it ends up about 2mm above the bridge....any idea of that's a real problem..? (Funny cos that means the strings would be even higher if the neck was dead straight!)For the trussrod, the neck seems to have just the right curve to it, but I'll see how it works out when the other adjustments are done..Thanks for the info... It would be interesting to see a picture of the yardstick on the fretboard where it meets the bridge with the truss rod adjusted to make the neck as straight as possible. The yard stick is difficult to use, I cut one down to 25" so that it will fit between the nut and the bridge. At 8mm at the 20th, it would probably be a good idea to assess it with a straight neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brindleleaf Posted July 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2010 It would be interesting to see a picture of the yardstick on the fretboard where it meets the bridge with the truss rod adjusted to make the neck as straight as possible. The yard stick is difficult to use, I cut one down to 25" so that it will fit between the nut and the bridge. At 8mm at the 20th, it would probably be a good idea to assess it with a straight neck. Well in fact my 'yard stick' is a piece of skirting BUT it looks really straight and gives nearly the same result on boths it's sides, but I'll try to find a metal ruler that I've got around here somewhere. In terms of the shape on the neck it's ever so slightly bowed (virtually straight), I guess that's why I can still play it okay with that kind of gap at the 20th. I'll straighten up the neck completely and try to get a picture of the gap at the bridge (may have to ask my GF to hold something...that's SURE to raise a number of complicated questions (especially since she thinks my home handyman skills are about at the same level as my guitar playing...)). I'll get back to you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted July 5, 2010 Members Share Posted July 5, 2010 Hey everyone,I've been trying to figure out whether I need to adjust my truss rod, and after spending a bit of time looking at it seriously on the net, I realised that the truss rod WASN'T the problem...it's that the saddle is WAY too high...so (an easy Sunday afternoon project right..?!) I'm going to sand down the saddle...What kind of distances should I be looking for..?For teh moment I've got something like 0.46mm at the first fret, 4mm at the 12th and maybe 7 or 8mm at the 20th..! (Actually no problem for my typical cowboy chords, or when I tune down to some weird celtic tuning....but harder to fret cleanly and quickly high up the fretboard....).Thanks for any info.... Read this: http://thbecker.net/guitar_playing/guitars_and_setup/setup_page_01.html Adjust the relief (truss rod) first. Capo the first fret, fret the E string on the 14th fret and measure with a feeler gauge (or a business card). You are looking for 0.005 - 0.010 inches (depending on your style). Once you have that, then lower the saddle. You're looking for the low E to be about 2.5 - 2.75mm (or 5 - 7/64ths) above the 12th fret. The high E should fall around 1.5 - 1.75 mm (or 3 - 4/64ths) above the 12th fret. This distance should be measured from the bottom of the string to THE TOP OF THE FRET (not to the fretboard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brindleleaf Posted July 6, 2010 Author Members Share Posted July 6, 2010 Read this: http://thbecker.net/guitar_playing/guitars_and_setup/setup_page_01.html Adjust the relief (truss rod) first. Capo the first fret, fret the E string on the 14th fret and measure with a feeler gauge (or a business card). You are looking for 0.005 - 0.010 inches (depending on your style). Once you have that, then lower the saddle. You're looking for the low E to be about 2.5 - 2.75mm (or 5 - 7/64ths) above the 12th fret. The high E should fall around 1.5 - 1.75 mm (or 3 - 4/64ths) above the 12th fret. This distance should be measured from the bottom of the string to THE TOP OF THE FRET (not to the fretboard). Thanks for that...not simple but looks reasonably straightforward...it'll have to wait til I get back from my hols, but I'll certainly have a go at it. The main worry for me is that it's starting to look as though the neck is angled slightly below the plane of the body (making the kind of gap I've got pretty impressive!). I'll try adjusting the truss, saddle and nut it as suggested in that site and see what happens... (at worst I'll whack some thick or medium strings on it and pull that neck forward.... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted July 6, 2010 Members Share Posted July 6, 2010 Read this: http://thbecker.net/guitar_playing/guitars_and_setup/setup_page_01.html Adjust the relief (truss rod) first. Capo the first fret, fret the E string on the 14th fret and measure with a feeler gauge (or a business card). You are looking for 0.005 - 0.010 inches (depending on your style). Once you have that, then lower the saddle. You're looking for the low E to be about 2.5 - 2.75mm (or 5 - 7/64ths) above the 12th fret. The high E should fall around 1.5 - 1.75 mm (or 3 - 4/64ths) above the 12th fret. This distance should be measured from the bottom of the string to THE TOP OF THE FRET (not to the fretboard). This but be sure to firstly re-humidify your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brindleleaf Posted July 6, 2010 Author Members Share Posted July 6, 2010 This but be sure to firstly re-humidify your guitar. Okay cheers...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bfloyd6969 Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Read this: http://thbecker.net/guitar_playing/guitars_and_setup/setup_page_01.htmlAdjust the relief (truss rod) first. Capo the first fret, fret the E string on the 14th fret and measure with a feeler gauge (or a business card). You are looking for 0.005 - 0.010 inches (depending on your style).Once you have that, then lower the saddle. You're looking for the low E to be about 2.5 - 2.75mm (or 5 - 7/64ths) above the 12th fret. The high E should fall around 1.5 - 1.75 mm (or 3 - 4/64ths) above the 12th fret. This distance should be measured from the bottom of the string to THE TOP OF THE FRET (not to the fretboard). Don't forget about the correct nut slot height... a very, very important part of guitar playability! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Don't forget about the correct nut slot height... a very, very important part of guitar playability! Yes, and that is also covered in the article I linked to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitmo Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 The main worry for me is that it's starting to look as though the neck is angled slightly below the plane of the body (making the kind of gap I've got pretty impressive!). I'll try adjusting the truss, saddle and nut it as suggested in that site and see what happens... How high does the saddle rise out of the bridge to the bottom the lowest strings? Do you have something that can measure reasonably accurately? How much is there to sand off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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