Help with Washburn SBF-80

[TheImageDoctor]

I'm looking for suggestions on getting a little more natural (woody?) sound out of my Washburn SBF-80 guitar.

 

For those who don't know, this was a fairly short-lived model from the 90's. At first glance, it looks like a solid body, single-cutaway, electric with three knobs, but has no visible pickups. In reality, it is more like a solid-body acoustic (LOL) with a bridge piezo pickup. (I've heard some say there are chambers in the body, but apart from the electronics cavities, I have no idea if that is true.)

 

I think there were a total of three color combinations - sunburst flame, black, and blonde flame. I think there were two bridge/pickup combinations: one was a solid, one-piece bridge, the other had individual "bridges" (apparently embedded in some type of plastic or polymer) for each string. Mine is a sunburst model with the individual little bridges.

 

Back to my questions...

 

Essentially, this guitar has its own sound (IMO). It's clearly artificial (piezo not mic'd) almost "electronic acoustic guitar" sort of sound, but is actually a sound that I seem to hear coming (back?) into vogue with some more trendy pop and jazz players - at least in terms of picking/lead type play.

 

I play through a Crate CA-125 acoustic amp, and again, picking/lead type play sounds really nice. But when chording/strumming the sound is either very boomy or very quacky. I just can't seem to dial in a pleasing sound using my amp.

 

Yes, I DO realize this is an 20+ year old guitar, and what I'm describing is the nature of older piezo pickup guitars. But I also know that pickups and processing technology has vastly improved in that time frame, and that's precisely my line of questioning...

 

If I change nothing on the guitar, what would do the most to help me achieve a more natural acoustic tone?

 

1. A different amp?

2. Acoustic processing/effects like an Ibanez AG Stomp?

3. Digital modeling effects pedals?

4. High quality multi-band EQ?

5. Real tube pre-amp

6. Some combination of the above?

7. Which of the above would you recommend?

 

Next, if I were to change items on the guitar, what would help most?

 

1. Strings (or do they make any difference on a solid body piezo guitar?)

2. Can I change the pickup on this particular guitar?

3. Can I change the internal pre-amp/electronics?

4. Other options?

 

Thanks for your help and ideas. Again, I do realize I'm working with a bit of a dinosaur here, but it's really such a cool axe and plays great. I'd like to make it better somehow if possible...

 

Photos for reference (not my guitar)

 

[katopp]

Strings are always a good starting point, even with piezos.

A Zoom A2.1u or any other "modelling" pedal might do, but deffo not "natural".

You couldmtry and change the piezo strip, but most of the time, the Pre was matched to the piezo, so you might or might not score here.

 

For "silent" practice, I have a Tenayo "Silent Western", which is today's incarnation of your Washburn and it still sounds piezo'ish, even though it's made in 2010, so I assume it's part and parcel of it.

[Northstar]

Hey I want one of those!

[TheImageDoctor]

I suppose strings are the place to start, no matter what course forward. But I've been reading threads on acoustic/electric and piezo strings all morning and that is SO overwhelming...LOL. I'm no further along now than I was when I started. Then I looked at the user reviews for strings from big online retailers - good grief...how can just about every single string get 4-5 stars from every person who ever bought or played them??? No help there either...LOL !!!

 

Seems it comes down to this: For just about any guitar running a piezo bridge pickup for amplified sound, the sound is PRIMARILY generated by the actual string vibrations transmitted from the bridge to the top of the piezo element, and perhaps to a small degree some vibrations/harmonics/whatever from the body of the guitar to the bottom of the piezo element.

 

So if it's primarily the physical string vibration that produces the sound - does the type of string used actually make an appreciable difference in sound? Do different strings "vibrate" differently or something???

[JasmineTea]

I'd try a 31 band EQ. (expensive new, see about a used one) Good chance you can zero in on the Quack freqs and dial them down. A good shop would more than likely let you try it in the store with your own guitar.

[JasmineTea]

But it might be inherent to those types of guitars, and why they're not so popular anymore. I'd keep it, though, if i had one. No doubt I'd make use of the unique sound of it.

[Northstar]

 

But it might be inherent to those types of guitars, and why they're not so popular anymore. I'd keep it, though, if i had one. No doubt I'd make use of the unique sound of it .

 

 

My thought too. When you have lemons, make lemonade (not to say that this guitar is a lemon, far from it).

[JasmineTea]

My thought too. When you have lemons, make lemonade (not to say that this guitar is a lemon, far from it).

I have one of the pups, forget the maker, but I'm wondering what would happen if I attached it to the side of an amp, plug it into one channel, and a tele into the other..feedback loop from hell, maybe.

[TheImageDoctor]

I saw a modded SBF-80 on youtube (or somewhere) where a guy added pickups and an A/A+B/B switch. Might be cool to add a good but very small "stealth" pickup right at the end of the neck that would still keep the original appearance...???

[JasmineTea]

I'd add a set of regular tele pups, if the body is designed in such a way that it can handle it.

[Terry Allan Hall]

I'd start out w/ a good 10-band EQ (MXR is a very good brand) and see if that get's you what you want.

 

Also, having a magnetic p/u added at the end of the fingerboard would get you more lows, but you'd be limited to either GHS "White Bronze" or DR "Zebra" strings to get a good balanced "acoustic" tone...if you can find one, the Barcus-Berry mag. p/u, a very thin model that sticks to the top w/ double-sided tape, would work very well...the advantage is that these don't require major surgery, and, if you like how it works along w/ the stock UST, it's easy to wire it in:

 

[katopp]

Or - adjust playing style.

The typical piezo-quack is indeed a signal overload, i.e. playing too hard for the piezo to handle.

Play lighter, maybe more towards the neck and everything should sound better...

[Terry Allan Hall]

Or - adjust playing style. The typical piezo-quack is indeed a signal overload, i.e. playing too hard for the piezo to handle. Play lighter, maybe more towards the neck and everything should sound better...

 

Absolutely...tame those voltage spikes!

[TheImageDoctor]

Awesome - awesome - awesome - now I have strings to look for, a new pickup to track down, and indeed playing style modifications

 

Thanks for the input everyone!

[TheImageDoctor]

Well - going back through this I thought there were some string recommendations but then I couldn't find them. Maybe they were deleted or reworded.

 

Someone did mention "overpowering" the older piezo pickups...and if the only thing really doing anything here is the actual, physical string vibration through the bridge to the piezo...why not just go for higher quality, lightweight, coated electric guitar strings?

 

Seems like that would increase comfort and playability, and reduce the overall "sound load" (whatever the technical term would be) of the strings into the bridge/piezo pickup.

 

Yes? No? Maybe?

[cozmo1]

I have one for sale, like new, only used in my studio

email me at mapleislandmir@hotmail.com

thanks

jeff

[DeepEnd]

I doubt the OP cares. This thread is over two years old. Not an auspicious first post.

[DeepEnd]

more trolls, why on earth did I bother posting? . . .

 

. . . Staff here really need to look at the people who are "contributing" compared to the ones who are just being trolls. . . .

 

. . . P.S. If you need some advice, it would be:

 

STOP NOW, look at what was posted, look at your own replies and decide "enough is enough. I need to say sorry"

Nobody is trolling. Apparently your definition of "troll" is "Someone who posts something critical of me." As your first post, you resurrected a two year old thread and added nothing in the process. Thread necrophilia is not well regarded, not just by me and FretFiend but in general. Take your own advice: STOP NOW, look at what you posted, understand the context of the replies (i.e., you broke the rules/made a mistake), look at your own reply when your error was pointed out to you, and decide "enough is enough. I need to say sorry." We really do try to value everyone's input but it needs to be constructive, timely and relevant. A two year late necro post is none of these.

[Freeman Keller]

I understand how somebody doing some sort of search on something of interest to them finds an old thread - frankly I use google to find some of my old threads, it works very well. I can also understand how they might jump into the conversation - after all its something that is of interest to them.

 

I can understand how a new forumite might not understand or see dates on postings or understand any of the traditions of the forum, after all, they are new. I frankly don't think people like Tmiblack are trolls or anything else malicious.

 

It also seems like when one of these old threads gets resurrected a reasonable approach is to inform the new poster that it is an old thread, the OP is probably dead too or at least doesn't currently care. But welcome them to the group and suggest that if they have information about this or any other subject, maybe starting a new thread would result in positive discussion. Heaven knows we are having a hard time getting new threads started.

 

And Tmiblack, I know you think you were reamed, but DE's response was pretty much on target. Chill a little, maybe start over again and try to be polite - a better reaction might have been "gee, I didn't realize that" I have three of these and was just trying to be helpful. Do you think there would be any interest if I started an new thread and posted some clips?......."

 

So, Tmiblack, welcome to HCAG.

[Idunno]

Propitiously speaking, this forum offers something for everyone (to gripe about).

 

To the OP, your comment proposing this place to be a laughing stock is not only late to three curtain calls, it's also evidence you have not spent any time here or you'd already know that. So, ignorance in evidence, you get one kitchen (thread) pass. Stick around and help out or be a nuisance, your choice, but know that either is useful here.

[Idunno]

Had some great fish'n'chips tonight at a local Irish Pub and washed it down with a Guinness while being chatted up by one of the wall-to-wall milfs. My kid just turned 21 so we did a Friday night out together running the clubs. Good times. Now, like the OP states, it would seem arrogant of me to post this in a new thread so here it is.

[Freeman Keller]

Tmiblack, look, this forum is like Life. There are people here who are best ignored - you'll figure out who they are. In most cases getting in a pissin' match only makes you both wet and smelly, and certainly does nothing for the rest of use respecting either of you.

 

Take the chip off your shoulder, settle down and discuss acoustic guitars with us - that's what most of the folks here do. You are certainly welcome to take little battles to PM but I can tell you from experience it probably won't make you happy.

 

I'm really interested in the idea of a solid body acoustic - I build guitars and I'm always experimenting with new things. I don't plan to read anything else in this thread but if you started a new one I certainly will, and I look forward to it.

 

So, as I said once before, welcome to HCAG

[DeepEnd]

 

Why on earth would you think my name is "Neal"? Surely it is spelled "Neil" and that is also not my name? . . .

 

. . . I admit that the OP is two years old but if staff here do not want response to it, they should remove the post or close the forum to new replies. . . .

"Neal" is a sometimes abrasive forum member. FretFiend was implying that you sounded like Neal posting under a different name.

 

The staff doesn't close old threads because forum regulars don't revive them. We know better. Therefore, no need.

 

You mentioned that starting an intro thread would have come across as "arrogant." Here's an example of a first post based on what you've told us about yourself:

 

"Hi, my name is tmiblack. I own a number of guitars, including a few cheapish electrics, a nice TJ custom, and many acoustics ranging from Hofner to Gibson. But my go-to guitars for gigging and studio work are three Washburn SF80s. Why? Because I can always get the sound "I" want from them. . . .

 

. . . tmiblack"

 

I wouldn't call a first post like that "arrogant" and I'd be intrigued enough to ask to see pics of your gear and maybe hear clips or see vids of your music. I'm still interested so if you want to post pics of your gear in a new thread or post clips or vids, I'll be game.

[Idunno]

So, I went to the IMAX theater today and watched The Equalizer with Denzel Washington for the second time in a single week. That's saying something for me (shallow?) to put that kind of stock in a movie. It's the Robinhood Syndrome appeal, I think. The popcorn also has some attraction but the main theme is the good guy image that gets my appreciation. Not to give it away, but the bad guy's name, Pushkin, is just a little too coincidental don't'cha think?

 

Anyway, back to here I guess or get accused of pirating. I think dredging up a thread on a hardly known guitar isn't intrinsically troll-like. Dood Go-Ogled the thing and this was one of the portals. I mean, if the guitar is rare it must be hard to refrain from furthering discovered commentary regardless of it's vintage. Seems a reasonable thing given such evidence within the thread itself. Anyway, he stepped in to read the old post, commented on it and then got called inauspicious, lickity-split. And, by a guy who would normally turn the other cheek. Then he comes off all indignant in an unnecessary defensive posture that is obviously learned as a veteran of forum wars and ramps up FF. Someone else welcomes him, someone else mediates, an example of behavioral qualities is sampled for the Dood to maybe write down somewhere for future reference and then FF seeks a Troll vote.

 

The moral of this story is to go watch The Equalizer. Good flick.

[DeepEnd]

. . . Anyway' date=' he stepped in to read the old post, commented on it and then got called inauspicious, lickity-split. And, by a guy who would normally turn the other cheek. . . .[/quote']

in·aus·pi·cious: not showing or suggesting that future success is likely

Reviving a two year old post is not promising. Yes, I would normally "turn the other cheek" but that sort of thing really bugs me these days. I could have been a bit milder in my reply, so for that I apologize to tmiblack. However, I respectfully disagree with FretFiend that troll activity is in any way better than no activity. If tmiblack decides to post outside this thread and maybe start one of his(?) own, I can only hope the result will be beneficial to all concerned.