Bone makes more of a difference at the saddle than at the nut!

[Frets99]

I'm sure that's hardly a new pronouncement. It seems logical, but I had occasion to experience it recently. I got a used Ibanez performer recently for dirt cheap. It's a lovely and has a solid spruce top with maple sides. I ordered a bone saddle, bridge pins and nut recently. Just the addition of the saddle and bridge pins has made all the difference I needed. I thought about it and when we play guitar, the one place the string contact is constant is at the saddle. 

 

it only took me sixty years to figure this out...

[Opa John]

Yep......saddles, strings and different type and gauge of picks......IMO, those are the things that give a guitar a different sound. I've heard that different bridge pins can do it too, but I've never experienced it. Same thing with changing the nut. I've got bone saddles on all of my guitars, and I can honestly say it made quite a difference on two of them.......on one other one, not so much, but enough to make me glad I changed it to bone.  

[Seorie]

 

yeah, as John says anything that the vibrating string touches and that touches the string will ultamatly affect how it 'sounds' but it also goes much further than that - what the string is attached to -

machine heads / 'peg' head / neck / fingerboard / bridge / soundboard system, - depending how these componants are made and what they'er made of will affect the 'sound'. It's all about vibrational and acoustic efficency (damping) and transparency (coloration).

The guitar is a sum of it's parts.

Intersetingly, and I've said this on AGF - no one ever mentions frets in these discutions, what they'er made of, how their fitted etc.

 

[DeepEnd]

 

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Frets99 wrote:

 

 

. . . I got a used Ibanez performer recently for dirt cheap. It's a lovely and has a solid spruce top with maple sides. . . .

 

What model Performance series is that? AFAIK, they generally have laminated tops and I haven't seen one with maple back and sides. Solid tops are normally reserved for the ArtWood series. As for Seorie's comments (I wish I could multi-quote), there's some science behind the effect of the nut but the effect of the tuners is generally held to be based on their mass, with heavier tuners yielding a "better" sound with increased sustain and the like, not the quality or materials of their construction. Guitar Stringer, a luthier who used to post here, said once that headstock mass is commonly fine tuned to achieve a particular sound. Personally, I think you could get the same result if you epoxied pennies to the tuners (assuming sealed tuners) or to the back of the headstock. As for frets, AFAIK, there's only nickel silver and stainless steel and not a lot of variation within types so you pays your money and you takes your choice.

[lz4005]

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DeepEnd wrote:Guitar Stringer, a luthier who used to post here, said once that headstock mass is commonly fine tuned to achieve a particular sound. Personally, I think you could get the same result if you epoxied pennies to the tuners (assuming sealed tuners) or to the back of the headstock. As for frets, AFAIK, there's only nickel silver and stainless steel and not a lot of variation within types so you pays your money and you takes your choice.

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With headstock/tuner mass you're right that it doesn't much matter what it is, as long as it is firmly attached. Its more about sustain and the elimination of dead spots than "tone" per-se, from my experience.

I've seen guitars made with wood and bone frets, but they're ridiculously expensive and wear out quickly. Definitely a different sound, though.

[EdBega]

 

True and obviously not in that order ...

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Opa John wrote:

 

 

Yep......saddles, strings and different type and gauge of picks......IMO, those are the things that give a guitar a different sound. 

 

[BriFi]

   DeepEnd wrote: the effect of the tuners is generally held to be based on their mass, with heavier tuners yielding a "better" sound with increased sustain.

   Couldn't disagree with this statement more. On one hand as far as an acoustic guitar is concerned lighter build weight is more desirable. The hardware should be a low percentage of the mass as the tuners are not making sound, only transferring it in an indirect fashion. Mass in this area will absorb & limit transference not enable it. Just from a practical stand point a heavy headstock area is going to put the instrument out of balance from a "feel" perspective. "Please...Just Say Know"...To Boat Anchors. Check out what the best luthiers are using,it's for a reason. 

   If you cannot here the improvement in tone resulting from natural materials such as bone, ebony or fossil ivory then save your money. I'm paying up cause it's obvious (to my ears) there can be significant improvement to be gained.

  BriFi

[masterbuilt]

I have heard killer sustain coming from an electric guitar with a brass nut. Nut material can improve sustain on open strings and with open-tuning, it can make a big difference. I agree with John on the saddle, strings, and pick.

 

Now, I can't resist... strings always make a guitar sound better.