Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Looks like I'm gonna try and build a guitar...

Collapse
X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts







  • Quote Originally Posted by rickoshea
    View Post

    seems to be a never ending sanding and jig making exercise doesnt it?



    Once they're all done (I enjoyed making them and dodging flying router bits lol) the fun really begins. I like the shop btw Neal .... just watch how it will "magically" start filling up with tools




    Thanks, Rick. I'm hoping that I can focus more on building my guitar now that I've got something accomplished. I was starting to get frustrated by not making great progress with the thickness sanding and getting over to my friend's shop often enough so I was taking it out by trying to button down the mold and bending shapes. It's been an issue of time-management (which is affected by my wife's hectic schedule these past couple of weeks and my 6yo autistic sons' sleep patterns) and I hope it starts to work itself out.



    In the meantime, I've really got to get the rosette, back strip and endpin wedge designs locked in. Next time I want to do the EIR back strip bound with prelaminated BWB purfling strips.
    Gear:
    2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
    2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
    2010 Martin D-16GT
    2006 Larrivee OM-03R
    1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
    1989 Kramer Stryker
    197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

    Comment








    • Quote Originally Posted by kwakatak
      View Post

      I appreciate it but I picked up a cheap $5 one today that will suit my purposes.



      ...






      OK. regarding the planes, there's an antique shop with good tools (with reasonable prices, too) on PA 272 in Little Britain, PA.

      Comment


      • I've been told I'm getting overly anal on this so I need to step it up. I figure I've spent enough of my wife's money on plywood to move ahead.



        Final sanding of the contour so that all 4 match:





        Note the miter box that I used to cut a TON of little blocks of wood for the depth of the mold





        Originally the mold was to use 3" spacers but it looked too deep (4.5") since the guitar itself is only going to be 4.5" deep and I'll need the edges free so that I can route out the edges. So I've been playing with the arrangement of the spacers to either 3/4" (mold would be 2.25" deep)





        ...or 2" spacers (mold would be 3.5" deep)





        This way would have more "meat" to drill through for the mounting bolts so that I can separate the mold when the "box" is closed:









        Either way would involve just a little more sanding...
        Gear:
        2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
        2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
        2010 Martin D-16GT
        2006 Larrivee OM-03R
        1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
        1989 Kramer Stryker
        197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

        Comment


        • Today I was admiring my finished mold and waist spreader:





          Then I began to wonder about how everything would fit. Way back when I first received the plans and John and I chose the mahogany set I was a little dismayed to find out that the sides were slightly shorter than the length of the template on the plans. I don't remember what it was exactly but we're talking an inch, give or take. I wondered how this would affect how the sides fit into the mold once we bended them. So I did some reading on OLF and broke out my plans and acrylic template:







          ... I looked at the figures on the plans and set out to measure how close I came to on the mold. First I marked the target waist line on my mold vs. the plans:





          Then I measured the length of the waist to the tail joint:









          ...then the waist to the neck joint:











          Then I wrote down the results:







          Looks like my waist is off by 1/16" but the target length is nearly right on. Not bad for eye-balling things if I do say so myself.



          Then I marked my template for the appropriate trim lines:











          So what does this tell me? Well, my hope is that I can avoid any cupping in the mold once the sides are bent and clamped in and the waist spreader put to tension. I want everything nice and snug without being too long. It looks like I have about 13/16" to play with. I need to go back and measure how long the mahogany sides really are now.
          Gear:
          2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
          2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
          2010 Martin D-16GT
          2006 Larrivee OM-03R
          1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
          1989 Kramer Stryker
          197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

          Comment


          • great job on the mould Neal . Have you made lower bout, upper bout, and longitudinal spreaders? The upper and lower bout ones will ensure the sides are nice and snug to the mould and the the longitudinal ones do the same plus make glueing the neck and tailblocks easier.

            I made mine like this (the spreader bit starts about 6 mins into the video) :



            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkumaY523zY



            its dead easy - the only bad bit for me was having to hand saw the threaded steel rod ... what a complete git of a job that was
            imagination is more important than knowledge. knowledge is limited. imagination encircles the world.

            viva fui in silvis
            sum dura occisa
            securi dum vixi tacui
            mortua dulce cano

            Comment


            • Hehe - yeah, I've watched that video, Rick. They're working with MDF and there's TONS of dust because they made something like 12 sets of molds and spreaders. It was a HOWL seeing them with the brooms because I've learned first hand that that stuff is MESSY to work with. I'm soooo glad I switched to working with plywood because one session of sanding my bending forms coated my entire basement in a fine coat of MDF dust which actually has me a little worried.



              Now regarding the spreaders, that's the reason why I measured everything out so precisely. From lurking at the unofficial luthier's forum I've heard that so long as you PRECISELY mark where centerline for the waist is and give yourself about 1/4" the waist spreader should be enough to keep everything snug - especially once the kerfing and tail and neck blocks are installed.



              Of course, I'm about to head down into my garage (it has better ventilation) to cut out some bout spreaders just in case. I've got a couple more turnbuckles in reserve and lots of plywood scrap to work with and I'm getting better with the band saw.



              Then I just have to get back to those bending forms and get them all squared up. A table spindle would come in handy right now but I don't have access to one. It would have simplified a LOT of things. I'm dreading it because they're MDF and I HATE the mess (have I mentioned that? )

              Next week I hope to be bending the sides though.



              So tomorrow I head over to my friend's workshop where I'll be working on the rosette. He's got a dremel, one of those rosette jigs and LOTS of rosewood scrap. My top is ready and my soundboard template is accurate so that I mark the sound hole position and the outline. With any luck I'll get the rosette in and then one or two last passes through the drum sander to get everything flush. Then it's back to the band saw to make them shaped like a guitar.



              Here's my homework for next week:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYNibtaUhs4



              EDIT: as for why only one set of spreaders may be necessary, that's covered in part 3:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYHPCeVRUA4
              Gear:
              2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
              2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
              2010 Martin D-16GT
              2006 Larrivee OM-03R
              1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
              1989 Kramer Stryker
              197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

              Comment


              • Well, last night was certainly productive: we made 6 rosewood coasters!



                Seriously, the intent was to get a .1" wide ring of rosewood (with a 5" radius) for my rosette last night and it took 6 tries. FYI: we used a dremel with the Stewmac sound hole jig.



                I brought my D-16GT to copy the rosette and provide something to measure with a set of calipers but ultimately decided that it was best just use as "ballpark" and see what would work. Again, my inexperience with woodworking was partly to blame but at least I have all my fingers - it was close there on one try.



                It made sense to do the inner ring first and then the outer, which was a good thing because the circular cutout served as a good template for the next 5 attempts. Each time, the "inner" pass went well but the first few attempts met with disaster as the little ring would suddenly fly off into several pieces. On one pass the bit actually dropped through the work piece and about 1/4" into the table below, which was not a big deal but did cause some tear out in the rosewood which was and proved to be the most spectacular failure.



                Ultimately I stood back and let my friend John do it and it took him 3 tries too, but he had a few good ideas which seemed to solve the tear-out issues:



                1: apply a layer of shellac to the work area to reinforce it

                2: tape everything down so that the work piece was flush against the work table and could not move.

                2: stop and clear out the accumulating rosewood dust because it may have been interfering with the dremel bit





                Ultimately, we did successfully cut out a contiguous ring of rosewood that is still somewhat slim (probably around .15") but by then it was getting too late to clean it up and inlay it in the top. That's probably a GOOD thing.



                Sorry no pics yet, but there were some taken.
                Gear:
                2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
                2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
                2010 Martin D-16GT
                2006 Larrivee OM-03R
                1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
                1989 Kramer Stryker
                197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

                Comment


                • Never having built a guitar before, I might be talking out of turn here, but why don't you just rip a thin strip and use that?



                  If I understand this right, you have a lot of short grain on both ends. How will you pick it up without it turning into a bunch of pieces?

                  Comment


                  • Not sure I follow that, Neil, but the one time that I did a wooden rosette I routed a circular channel in some scrap, then soaked the pieces of wood in water and applied a little heat with a heat gun, working it into the channel. Basically the same thing as bending binding. This was some old timey "rope" binding that I used on the twelves string, it has some bwb binding on each side and was split in the center to make is symetrical



                    http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_1865.jpg



                    http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_1866.jpg



                    http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_1867.jpg



                    http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_1868.jpg



                    I just use a simple Dremel router base, but I had to modify it because it wouldn't do small enough circles. Even tho I painted a little shellac on the spruce I did get a little tearout, but I think it is OK



                    http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_2016.jpg

                    Comment


                    • God bless ya, that looks like a lotta work!
                      "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
                      Sam Adams: terrorist, patriot, and public enemy #1.

                      Comment








                      • Quote Originally Posted by Freeman Keller
                        View Post

                        Not sure I follow that, Neil, but the one time that I did a wooden rosette I routed a circular channel in some scrap, then soaked the pieces of wood in water and applied a little heat with a heat gun, working it into the channel. Basically the same thing as bending binding. This was some old timey "rope" binding that I used on the twelves string, it has some bwb binding on each side and was split in the center to make is symetrical



                        http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_1865.jpg



                        http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_1866.jpg



                        http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_1867.jpg



                        http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_1868.jpg



                        I just use a simple Dremel router base, but I had to modify it because it wouldn't do small enough circles. Even tho I painted a little shellac on the spruce I did get a little tearout, but I think it is OK



                        http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/IMG_2016.jpg




                        Not quite the same thing, Freeman, but close. Looking at what you did though made me wonder if what he have is even usable.



                        What we did last night was cut a ring of rosewood from a discarded rosewood back that was already sanded to thickness. It needs a little cleanup but it's a consistent width. The idea is to drop it in between two concentric rings of BWB purfling.



                        Here's what I was thinking the process would involve.



                        1: measure out the width of the purfling

                        2: mark out four concentric rings that are separated exactly by the width of the rosewood ring, taking into account the width of the purfling too and use the dremel to route out channels for each

                        3: shellac the top

                        4: install the BWB purfling

                        5: route out a channel between the two center rings (jsut as you would if you were putting in an abalone ring

                        6: flood the trench with CA and insert the rosewood



                        The thing I'm trying to grasp is how to make everything flush before installation. I still need to measure the thickness of the rosewood ring and the purfling strips.Since I'm using multicolor purfling I don't think sanding is a good idea. I've been referring to Kinkead's book and he uses a cabinet scraper.



                        Before all this happens though my cedar top needs to go through the drum sander a few more times at 120 grit to take out the marks from the 80 grit.
                        Gear:
                        2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
                        2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
                        2010 Martin D-16GT
                        2006 Larrivee OM-03R
                        1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
                        1989 Kramer Stryker
                        197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

                        Comment


                        • There is a trick for doing abalone that might work here. You route your channel the total width of the abalone plus any edge trim (plus a hair for glue and working space). Put in the trim, but instead of the pearl you use a piece of teflon that is the same width (you can buy at the lutherie supply houses). Glue doesn't stick to the teflon so when you pull it out you have a nice clean channel. The pearl goes in in short little pieces, maybe this would work for your rosewood. Here are a couple of pictures of putting the rosette in the parlor - might give you some ideas



                          http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/IMG_1020.jpg



                          http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/IMG_1023.jpg



                          http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/IMG_1025.jpg



                          I've heard of the trick of flooding with CA but I don't think it has enough working time - I just use yellow glue, even for the pearl. I also let the purfling stand a little proud and just scrap it down to the top, however I try to make the pearl the same height. Anyway, don't know if this would work for the rosewood but it sure is slick for abalone (I've used it for pearl around binding too).

                          Comment


                          • Thanks, Freeman. I wish I knew where I could get something like that before tomorrow. In the meantime, I was thinking about some rough measurements and did a little drafting in Adobe Illustrator:







                            Before that though I was working on my bending forms. I think I have them pretty close:







                            The cross section is nearly flat and square to the sides so I shouldn't have any major toe-in problems when I bend the sides. The waist is the only area that really needs attention but by using the t-square as a scraper I should be able to get it there:





                            It's not perfect to the template but I'm anticipating that the mahogany sides will have a little spring back. As long as the spreaders and outside mold do their job I'm hoping things will be fine. Just to be sure, I checked to see if there was adequate space in the mold for the spreaders to fit so that the spring back is at a minimum:





                            I'm mostly concerned about the waist since that's where most of the flexing is reputed to occur. First the bass side:





                            ...then the treble:





                            It looks like I can stand to shave a little more off the upper and lower bouts too though.
                            Gear:
                            2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
                            2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
                            2010 Martin D-16GT
                            2006 Larrivee OM-03R
                            1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
                            1989 Kramer Stryker
                            197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

                            Comment


                            • If you can wait a couple of days I can send you some (I assume you are talking about the teflon). I'm at work right now and can't send it until tomorrow, overnight FexEx would have it to you wednesday or thursday at the latest. If you want to do that PM me your snail mail addy.



                              That was always a big frustration for me - I would get to the point where I needed something and have to order it with fast delivery - sometimes the shipping was more than the price.

                              Comment


                              • Looks like you guys are having a lot of fun with this, in spite of all the set-backs and minor frustrations. I assume that stuff is part of the fun, anyway.
                                My stuff:

                                Acoustics:
                                Takamine GS330S
                                Yamaha FG260
                                Yamaha G60A
                                Sigma SM-3
                                Cheerfully cute and cheap Mexican Requinto (made in Paracho) that I keep at the office currently

                                The DarkSide:
                                Fender Standard Stratocaster in Sunburst

                                I bought a Hohner Special 20



                                The only people who care about what you play are other guitar players. Everyone else just wants to hear music.
                                -- Brewski

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X