Zager guitars?

[TCBronson]

I am new to this forum and I do wear aesbostas underwear so go for it!

 

I clicked on Acoustic Guitar at the top, then I clicked on USER REVIEWS and then clicked on ACOUSTIC GUITARS and then scrolled down and read alot of reviews about alot of different guitars including Martins. If money was no object, I would buy a Martin D41. Why, because my ALL time favorite singer song writer Dan Fogelberg. Anyway, heard about Zager guitars and I saw many negative forum comments here, but in the USER REVIEWS I only see ALL positive reviews. So what's the deal with the USER REVIEWS are they hand picked for only positive comments? If not then the Zager guitar according to USER REVIEWS sound like a pretty nice guitar for the money. Many have said that it sounds alot like a more expensive guitar. I do not believe anybody should comment unless they have first hand experiene with this guitar. Meaning, they have bought or played one. Other comments without first hand experience is just an opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

 

OK, so let the flame throwing begin!

Tom

[Hudman]

 

I am new to this forum and I do wear aesbostas underwear so go for it! I clicked on Acoustic Guitar at the top, then I clicked on USER REVIEWS and then clicked on ACOUSTIC GUITARS and then scrolled down and read alot of reviews about alot of different guitars including Martins. If money was no object, I would buy a Martin D41. Why, because my ALL time favorite singer song writer Dan Fogelberg. Anyway, heard about Zager guitars and I saw many negative forum comments here, but in the USER REVIEWS I only see ALL positive reviews. So what's the deal with the USER REVIEWS are they hand picked for only positive comments? If not then the Zager guitar according to USER REVIEWS sound like a pretty nice guitar for the money. Many have said that it sounds alot like a more expensive guitar. I do not believe anybody should comment unless they have first hand experiene with this guitar. Meaning, they have bought or played one. Other comments without first hand experience is just an opinion and you know what they say about opinions. OK, so let the flame throwing begin! Tom

 

 

Anyone can leave user reviews.

[simplygoodmusic]

I tend to not trust user reviews. People tend to post reviews in three situations, when they LOVE the instrument, when they like the instrument, and when the absolutly HATE it. So you tend to skip on the reviews of people who dislike it slightly, and therefore the balance tends to lean more towards the positive side.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

My problem with Zager guitars is this ad: http://www.zagerguitar.com/index.php?event=public.guitars.models&model=dm1&id=19

 

I do not have any experience with the higher priced Zager guitars but I do have experience with Sigma "Martin" acoustic guitars. The Sigma Martin DM guitar that Mr. Zager sells for $495 was discontinued by Martin and is basically a $100 all laminate guitar made in Korea. He says he has lowered the saddle and re-cut the nut to widen the spacing. This type of work can be done by any trained luthier for about $70. Lowering the saddle is simply a process of removing it and sanding a few mm's off of it. Cutting a new nut from bone costs $50. Apparently Mr.Zager also has the the braces scalloped by trained luthiers but I'd like to know how he is able to do that with an instrument that is already built and shipped from Korea. Scallopping the braces is part of building a guitar and doesn't make it anymore expensive.

 

Now...I own a Sigma Martin DM-2 which is basically the same guitar but with a tortoise pickguard and much better sealed tuners. I have set it up myself to play like butter and it does. I paid $150 for it used in mint condition with a case and there is no way in heck that it is worth $495 no matter what Mr Zager says. I know this because I also own a $1000 Martin and there is absolutely no comparison.

[Hudman]

I tend to not trust user reviews. People tend to post reviews in three situations, when they LOVE the instrument, when they like the instrument, and when the absolutly HATE it. So you tend to skip on the reviews of people who dislike it slightly, and therefore the balance tends to lean more towards the positive side.

 

You forgot one:

 

People can leave multiple reviews (under multiple user ID's) for guitars they endorse.

[simplygoodmusic]

Yep, annoying but very true.

[TCBronson]

OK, so what about the ZAD 80 anybody out there have first hand experience with this model. It's Zagers top of the line for $745.

 

As far as the USER REVIEWS go if someone pays alot of money for something then they aren't likely to admit it if they don't like it, just ask a Mercedes owner. Nobody wants to admit they spent alot of money for something and admit you made a bad financial decision. But a reasonable or inexpensive product most people would gladly give their opinion especially if it did not live up to their expectations or the advertisement hype. It looks to me, again based on the USER REVIEWs that alot of people were pleasantly surprised with the product and the service. I also think that it would be alot of trouble to leave reviews under different ID's, not that it couldn't be done.

 

I also looked at Zagers Ebay feed back rating of 100%. That says something by it self.

Tom

[babablowfish]

Zagers have been written about extensively here. I have only played one and heard 2 so my opinion is based on those 2 guitars. The one I played ironically had very high action - I don't know if she asked for it this way, or if it just badly needed a truss rod adjustment or what, but it was uncomfortable to play. Neither of the two I heard sounded great. They were OK, but I have heard way better sounding guitars for the same money. I have the action on my guitars set at 3/32" at the 12th fret. I experience no fatigue at all with a string height like that and no special modifications were necessary - just had my luthier set my guitars up to my specs and I was good to go.

 

Go to Guitar Center and play a bunch of guitars in that price range. Try some Yamahas, Epiphone Masterbuilts, some Parkwoods, Taylors, etc. and get one that you like. IMHO the Zager won't sound or play as good as one of these properly set up.

 

This is strictly my opinion with absolutely nothing to back it up - the reviews for Zager's Gutars sound eerily similar in style.

[Hudman]

 

OK, so what about the ZAD 80 anybody out there have first hand experience with this model. It's Zagers top of the line for $745. As far as the USER REVIEWS go if someone pays alot of money for something then they aren't likely to admit it if they don't like it, just ask a Mercedes owner. Nobody wants to admit they spent alot of money for something and admit you made a bad financial decision. But a reasonable or inexpensive product most people would gladly give their opinion especially if it did not live up to their expectations or the advertisement hype. It looks to me, again based on the USER REVIEWs that alot of people were pleasantly surprised with the product and the service. I also think that it would be alot of trouble to leave reviews under different ID's, not that it couldn't be done. I also looked at Zagers Ebay feed back rating of 100%. That says something by it self. Tom

 

 

Why ask for opinions when you already made your mind up?

 

Give Denny your money if you want to.

[knockwood]

 

I tend to not trust user reviews. People tend to post reviews in three situations, when they LOVE the instrument, when they like the instrument, and when the absolutly HATE it. So you tend to skip on the reviews of people who dislike it slightly, and therefore the balance tends to lean more towards the positive side.

 

 

The ones that irk me are the fourth-situation type: Completely fictitious reviews from Zager shills.

 

Similarly, I've noticed that absolutely invariably when Zager is mentioned on this forum and promptly pimp slapped by the AG community, someone with no posts whatsoever will spring up out of the blue and post a bunch of sunshine on Zager's behalf. I'm not saying that is necessarily what is going on in this thead, but it is curious in that it happens literally every time.

[Hudman]

The ones that irk me are the fourth-situation type: Completely fictitious reviews from Zager shills. Similarly, I've noticed that absolutely invariably when Zager is mentioned on this forum and promptly pimp slapped by the AG community, someone with no posts whatsoever will spring up out of the blue and post a bunch of sunshine on Zager's behalf. I'm not saying that is necessarily what is going on in this thead, but it is curious in that it happens literally every time.

 

Funny how that works.

 

They want to keep selling those $300 set up jobs.

 

String science = $$$$$

[knockwood]

String science = $$$$$

 

I know, man. I've got to get in on this thing.

 

For some time now, I have been working on a small winching device that can be attached to the peghead of a guitar - six of them, say - and then used to increase or decrease the tension of a string in order to alter its pitch. I call it "Pitch Science."

[TCBronson]

 

Why ask for opinions when you already made your mind up? Give Denny your money if you want to.

 

 

OK, I think I will, the ad says 100% money back guarantee so what do I have to loose right. Then maybe I'll take it down to GC and compare in person.

I will then post here with my first hand experience and opinion. Wouldn't that be fair?

[Hudman]

 

OK, I think I will, the ad says 100% money back guarantee so what do I have to loose right. Then maybe I'll take it down to GC and compare in person. I will then post here with my first hand experience and opinion. Wouldn't that be fair?

 

 

I don't care what you do.

 

You can light it on fire in your driveway or throw it off a bridge.

 

Makes no difference to me.

 

You came here to defend the Zager brand. I almost feel honored that we drew Denny's attention.

[Hudman]

I know, man. I've got to get in on this thing. For some time now, I have been working on a small winching device that can be attached to the peghead of a guitar - six of them, say - and then used to increase or decrease the tension of a string in order to alter its pitch. I call it "Pitch Science."

 

"Pitch Science"?

 

I like it.

 

Can I be your shill guy? I will pop up on forums and defend your "Pitch Science" when people point out that all guitars come with small winching devices.

[knockwood]

Can I be your shill guy? I will pop up on forums and defend your "Pitch Science" when people point out that all guitars come with small winching devices.

 

Shill Science.

[Hudman]

Shill Science.

 

Hey, people want to believe in something.

 

Sell them something to believe in and make a few bucks.

 

It's a win - win.

[TCBronson]

 

I don't care what you do. You can light it on fire in your driveway or throw it off a bridge. Makes no difference to me. You came here to defend the Zager brand. I almost feel honored that we drew Denny's attention.

 

 

 

I gather from your comments that you have never bought or played a Zager guitar, yet you have some strong feelings about them. Do you know someone that has bought one or has played one? If not, how and why do you have such a negative attitude toward this guitar? You have obviously been around this forum for a while and perhaps know more about guitars than most. But all I'm looking for is some honest feed back on a particular guitar and was hoping for some honest feed back based on experience. Yet you like to give opinions wihtout any facts to back them up. So lets let some folks that have opinions based on facts voice their opinion. Or pull this thread from the forum if you find it offensive!

[Hudman]

 

I gather from your comments that you have never bought or played a Zager guitar, yet you have some strong feelings about them. Do you know someone that has bought one or has played one? If not, how and why do you have such a negative attitude toward this guitar? You have obviously been around this forum for a while and perhaps know more about guitars than most. But all I'm looking for is some honest feed back on a particular guitar and was hoping for some honest feed back based on experience. Yet you like to give opinions wihtout any facts to back them up. So lets let some folks that have opinions based on facts voice their opinion. Or pull this thread from the forum if you find it offensive!

 

 

First of all, you need to know what you are buying. You are buying a solid top, laminate sides and back guitar with a "one size fits all" guitar set up. You are paying a lot for the set up.

 

You can buy a Yamaha, Washburn, Alvarez, Sigma (the same brand as Zager) or Ibanez solid top, laminate sides and back guitar between $200 and $300. You can take it to a guitar tech and get it set up to fit YOUR playing style for under $100.

 

$300 - $400 and you have a guitar equal or better than your beloved Zager guitars.

[TCBronson]

 

First of all, you need to know what you are buying. You are buying a solid top, laminate sides and back guitar with a "one size fits all" guitar set up. You are paying a lot for the set up. You can buy a Yamaha, Washburn, Alvarez, Sigma (the same brand as Zager) or Ibanez solid top, laminate sides and back guitar between $200 and $300. You can take it to a guitar tech and get it set up to fit YOUR playing style for under $100. $300 - $400 and you have a guitar equal or better than your beloved Zager guitars.

 

 

Can you tell me about how all those guitars that you mentioned sound compared to the ZAD80? In this price range I want the best sound that Ican afford. Have you played and heard any or all of these guitars, or is this still just your opinion? Again, I am looking for honest first hand experience to make an informed buying decision. I get the impression that being a "Hall of Fame" member you just can't resist the temptation to put your 2 cents in alot of threads just to be heard, not really knowing what your are talking about with first hand experience. So, please, I want to hear from those that own one or played one! ONLY!

[Misha]

I would say that you can trust these guys here with their opinion on Zager guitars.

 

First of all, we all started with cheaper guitars and then moved on to something better.

 

Some people here are music teachers and they see/try lots of guitars that belong to their students.

 

It's not a good idea to carry an expensive guitar and use it as a campfire guitar so a lot of people among us also own a cheaper guitar for that purpose. Those cheaper guitars that we have appear to be in your price range!

 

just my 2 cents!

 

The best thing to do is still to go out, try a lot of different guitars and buy the best one!

[Hudman]

 

Can you tell me about how all those guitars that you mentioned sound compared to the ZAD80? In this price range I want the best sound that Ican afford. Have you played and heard any or all of these guitars, or is this still just your opinion? Again, I am looking for honest first hand experience to make an informed buying decision. I get the impression that being a "Hall of Fame" member you just can't resist the temptation to put your 2 cents in alot of threads just to be heard, not really knowing what your are talking about with first hand experience. So, please, I want to hear from those that own one or played one! ONLY!

 

 

You are pretty demanding for a person that just popped up here today.

 

You don't want honest opinions, you want a favorable review to justify buying a $745 Sigma guitar.

 

I'm trying to help you with honest advice based on many years of playing and working on guitars.

 

You can get a computerized Plek Pro set up on a guitar for $150!

 

I am beginning to think you are being less than honest. It seems like you already bought a Zager and are trying to justify the purchase. It looks strange that you would show up the same day we had another active Zager thread running.

 

I'm a "hall of fame" member because I have more than 5000 posts since joining the forum in 2005. Many of those posts were giving advice to people about buying, playing and working on guitars. We have a nice community here.

 

Keep defending Zagers and you will have 5000 posts in a few weeks.

[TCBronson]

I just went to the other Zager thread and red that Hudman put in his 2 cents there as well and said and I quote:

 

"They get good reviews. I never had a chance to play one."

 

So now you don't like them because you think it's an expensive "set up" on a cheap guitar. But at least you admit on that thread that you have not had a chance to play one.

 

Choosing a guitar is subjective, what I like somone else might not and what you like I might not like. But until I play one, or hear from someone that has, I don't know how they compare to any guitar. That is why I was hoping that there would be some folks here that have bought them and could give me there first hand opinion based on their experience. My guess, based on my first experience with this forum is that they are probably afraid to say anything here for fear of being ridiculed.

 

I do not own one, but I am going to give it some serious thought and maybe there are some other forums that might be more helpful.

 

What really amazes me is that in my original post I was specific about wanting actual experience with this particular guitar company from those that have actually played one.

[knockwood]

 

Can you tell me about how all those guitars that you mentioned sound compared to the ZAD80? In this price range I want the best sound that Ican afford. Have you played and heard any or all of these guitars, or is this still just your opinion? Again, I am looking for honest first hand experience to make an informed buying decision. I get the impression that being a "Hall of Fame" member you just can't resist the temptation to put your 2 cents in alot of threads just to be heard, not really knowing what your are talking about with first hand experience. So, please, I want to hear from those that own one or played one! ONLY!

 

 

You do not get to dictate who responds to your posts in this forum. None of us does. Whether you like it or not, if you're going to open the Zager topic here you will get some strong opinions that may not necessarily be what you want. The prevailing opinion here is that Zager gits are extremely ordinary bits of low-eschelon gear - nothing wrong with that at all, except for the overblown advertising - with a low-action setup available absolutely anywhere. The chief objection here to Zager is not so much the quality of the instruments themselves, but rather the entirely ridiculous suggestion that setting a guitar's action low is some kind of unique scientific breakthrough: "String Science." String Science is a complete load of {censored} designed to lure customers who don't know any better. If you visit his site, you will also see that he is in the practice of advertising an "EZ-Play Martin DM Acoustic." The deliberate omission of "Sigma" in this description is in my opinion very transparently slimy. Clearly Zager wants people to think they are getting a modified Martin DM. This is not what they're getting. "This is not what they're getting" is the crux of all the hate you're going to hear for Zager. He's earned it. And he doesn't help things by {censored}ting up any eBay search under "Martin" with his falsely advertised sub-Martin stock. I don't think there is anything wrong with Sigma, but I do think there is something very wrong with leaving "Sigma" out of the title - again, I am referring to his web page.

 

Have I played one of his guitars? I'm sorry to say that I have. A ZAD-50 purchased by an uninformed acquaintance. Was it the worst guitar I've ever played? Certainly not. What it was was a perfectly ordinary piece of wood with nothing notable in the tone or playability department, and I have definitely played better gits at lower prices.

 

Do I think it matters whether or not I've played one? No. I've never eaten a {censored} souffle, but if I see one on a menu I know enough to avoid ordering it no matter what kind of glowing anonymous opinions I may have read online.

 

Bon appetit.

[Hudman]

 

I just went to the other Zager thread and red that Hudman put in his 2 cents there as well and said and I quote: "They get good reviews. I never had a chance to play one." So now you don't like them because you think it's an expensive "set up" on a cheap guitar. But at least you admit on that thread that you have not had a chance to play one. Choosing a guitar is subjective, what I like somone else might not and what you like I might not like. But until I play one, or hear from someone that has, I don't know how they compare to any guitar. That is why I was hoping that there would be some folks here that have bought them and could give me there first hand opinion based on their experience. My guess, based on my first experience with this forum is that they are probably afraid to say anything here for fear of being ridiculed. I do not own one, but I am going to give it some serious thought and maybe there are some other forums that might be more helpful. What really amazes me is that in my original post I was specific about wanting actual experience with this particular guitar company from those that have actually played one.

 

 

 

What amazes me is that you want someone to encourage you to buy a $400 Sigma guitar for $745.

 

I never got hit in the knee cap with a sledge hammer, but I'm pretty sure it would hurt.